California Dealer Doc Fees Raised to $80 on 7/1/12

Here's the link: https://www.instavin.com/resource-ce...0-on-7-1-2012/

So the cap is raised, but dealers don't have to charge it. But an $80 cap is still pretty good, in IL the cap is $150 and most dealers tell us they have to charge it as its the law.

Way better than the $500-$600 charged in Arizona.

Originally Posted by Me530

So the cap is raised, but dealers don't have to charge it. But an $80 cap is still pretty good, in IL the cap is $150 and most dealers tell us they have to charge it as its the law.

I've never seen or heard (in 3 decades of sales) of a CA dealer not charging the max allowable.
As noted, even at the increased amount, it is still way lower than in many other states...

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

I've never seen or heard (in 3 decades of sales) of a CA dealer not charging the max allowable.

I've actually done it twice as part of the negotiations. But it was like pulling teeth when I got to the F&I manager with the agreed deal. More touble than it was worth.

So I just now reduce my selling price offer accordingly - much better procedurally all around.

Originally Posted by chrischeung

I've actually done it twice as part of the negotiations. But it was like pulling teeth when I got to the F&I manager with the agreed deal. More touble than it was worth.

So I just now reduce my selling price offer accordingly - much better procedurally all around.

I meant as a standard policy/rule. Of course there are exceptions to every rule..

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

I meant as a standard policy/rule. Of course there are exceptions to every rule..

Most assuredly. It was so ingrained, that it was a major hassle to get it reversed.

In a way it's like a baggage fee with the airline.

Originally Posted by chrischeung

I've actually done it twice as part of the negotiations. But it was like pulling teeth when I got to the F&I manager with the agreed deal. More touble than it was worth.

Many dealers slip a few extra charges in with the actual government fees and taxes.
The California DMV website has a fee calculator, so buyers can know what fees are "real".

Originally Posted by chrischeung

So I just now reduce my selling price offer accordingly - much better procedurally all around.

I took the same approach on my recent X5d purchase
The extra fees were about what I expected and were under $100.

Originally Posted by Me530

most dealers tell us they have to charge it as its the law.

Yup...almost universally dealers will tell buyers 'we have to, its the law in CA'. I actually think some salesmen may not even know...

There is an 'electronic filing fee' in California that is OPTIONAL. Dealers like to charge it as it makes it easier to do what you are already paying them to do.... I always decline it.

Originally Posted by ard

Yup...almost universally dealers will tell buyers 'we have to, its the law in CA'. I actually think some salesmen may not even know...

There is an 'electronic filing fee' in California that is OPTIONAL. Dealers like to charge it as it makes it easier to do what you are already paying them to do.... I always decline it.

You guys would have a much easier time by simply rolling the numbers backwards to the actual targeted selling price rather than being the one customer that insists on negotiating what is generally considered to be non-negotiable. You would sure surely save time and meet less resistance... You would experience less aggravation too... Whether you realize it or not, if you don't pay it, it is still coming out of the gross profit in the deal (a function of the selling price). The Dealer Principal is going to take his doc fee out of the deal (as well as the "dealer pack" that covers PDI & detail).



Why not simply calculate your bottom line OTD and say "I'll pay you X amount out the door and not a penny more"?




Life is too short. Pick your battles wisely.

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

You guys would have a much easier time by simply rolling the numbers backwards to the actual targeted selling price rather than being the one customer that insists on negotiating what is generally considered to be non-negotiable. You would sure surely save time and meet less resistance... You would experience less aggravation too... Whether you realize it or not, if you don't pay it, it is still coming out of the gross profit in the deal (a function of the selling price). The Dealer Principal is going to take his doc fee out of the deal (as well as the "dealer pack" that covers PDI & detail).



Why not simply calculate your bottom line OTD and say "I'll pay you X amount out the door and not a penny more"?




Life is too short. Pick your battles wisely.

Amen! I used to tell my customers and still tell my friends today if you want a 300 a month payment or want to pay X for a car, and the dealer can give it to you then it's a good deal for you. Who cares HOW much profit he is making. You got the payment you thought was fair. You got the price you thought was fair. Let both people be happy.

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

You guys would have a much easier time by simply rolling the numbers backwards to the actual targeted selling price rather than being the one customer that insists on negotiating what is generally considered to be non-negotiable. You would sure surely save time and meet less resistance... You would experience less aggravation too... Whether you realize it or not, if you don't pay it, it is still coming out of the gross profit in the deal (a function of the selling price). The Dealer Principal is going to take his doc fee out of the deal (as well as the "dealer pack" that covers PDI & detail).



Why not simply calculate your bottom line OTD and say "I'll pay you X amount out the door and not a penny more"?




Life is too short. Pick your battles wisely.

Are you talking to me?

I was only referring to the OPTIONAL electronic filing fee. By state law you MUST be allowed to decline.

Originally Posted by ard

I was only referring to the OPTIONAL electronic filing fee. By state law you MUST be allowed to decline.

Why would anyone want to choose manual filing over electronic filing? Wouldn't it take much longer?

Originally Posted by ard

Are you talking to me?

I was only referring to the OPTIONAL electronic filing fee. By state law you MUST be allowed to decline.

Ok. And likewise, you have a decision to make. Are you going to be the one buyer in probably 10,000
that is going to make a stink about it at the dealer? Like I said, time is too precious, life is too short to
beat up business people just because you are allowed to.

Originally Posted by chrischeung

Why would anyone want to choose manual filing over electronic filing? Wouldn't it take much longer?

Exactly? Let's discourage the dealer industry to progress technologically to help improve DMV efficiency...?

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

Ok. And likewise, you have a decision to make. Are you going to be the one buyer in probably 10,000
that is going to make a stink about it at the dealer? Like I said, time is too precious, life is too short to
beat up business people just because you are allowed to.



Exactly? Let's discourage the dealer industry to progress technologically to help improve DMV efficiency...?

I dunno, why should**I** have to PAY to improve YOUR technology and improve YOUR efficiency?

E filing is faster, easier, cheaper- FOR THE DEALERSHIP...great. Dont charge me MORE.

Why did they add a fee for this? Because it drastically cut down on the time the dealership had to spend on processing documents- hence the feeling was 'if it make less work for the dealer, lets charge them for it'. But the dealers didnt want to pay out of their pie....

And before you blame the legislature, auto sales special interest fought hard to pass the cost the consumer INSTEAD of paying it out of the $55 /80 pie. Since they demanded it be added to the bill, supporters demanded an opt out.

So I choose the opt out.

If it was included in the capped fee, I'd be happy.


But again, this is one of those cases where dealers attempt to belittle customers over what they try to characterize as 'chump change'.... be it a $20 doc fee, a detail fee, a $400 option that wasnt supposed to be there...or a $500 difference in profit the dealer wants..."life is too short" and "in the whole scheme of things"...

A

PS I didnt flinch on the capped fee as this is not statutorily 'optional'- it wasnt material and I didnt argue. But when the legislature goes to the trouble of explicitly making it optional, you can bet I opt out. If everyone opted out, guess what? It would be rolled into the capped fee.

So how did the F&I manager and your Client Advisor take it when you made this choice?

Originally Posted by ard

I dunno, why should**I** have to PAY to improve YOUR technology and improve YOUR efficiency?

E filing is faster, easier, cheaper- FOR THE DEALERSHIP...great. Dont charge me MORE.

Why did they add a fee for this? Because it drastically cut down on the time the dealership had to spend on processing documents- hence the feeling was 'if it make less work for the dealer, lets charge them for it'. But the dealers didnt want to pay out of their pie....

And before you blame the legislature, auto sales special interest fought hard to pass the cost the consumer INSTEAD of paying it out of the $55 /80 pie. Since they demanded it be added to the bill, supporters demanded an opt out.

So I choose the opt out.

If it was included in the capped fee, I'd be happy.


But again, this is one of those cases where dealers attempt to belittle customers over what they try to characterize as 'chump change'.... be it a $20 doc fee, a detail fee, a $400 option that wasnt supposed to be there...or a $500 difference in profit the dealer wants..."life is too short" and "in the whole scheme of things"...

A

PS I didnt flinch on the capped fee as this is not statutorily 'optional'- it wasnt material and I didnt argue. But when the legislature goes to the trouble of explicitly making it optional, you can bet I opt out. If everyone opted out, guess what? It would be rolled into the capped fee.

I learned long ago, "The customer is always right". When I ran the dealerships, that was credo I tried hard to stick to. But you know what, I think you missed an important point, in this particular situation, and as purely a casual external observer, I don't think you are embracing the totality of your decision. Now, thanks to your choice, somebody is going to have to drive to the DMV and drive back, just for you... Contemplate for a second the environmental impact/carbon footprint of just that alone, and ask yourself if it was really worth being the "one in a thousand customer" who must prove a point? How much fuel was spent just so that you could get your way? Everybody has to choose their own path in life. For me personally, life IS too short to aggravate myself and others just to save a dollar in a situation like that.

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

I learned long ago, "The customer is always right". When I ran the dealerships, that was credo I tried hard to stick to. But you know what, I think you missed an important point, in this particular situation, and as purely a casual external observer, I don't think you are embracing the totality of your decision. Now, thanks to your choice, somebody is going to have to drive to the DMV and drive back, just for you... Contemplate for a second the environmental impact/carbon footprint of just that alone, and ask yourself if it was really worth being the "one in a thousand customer" who must prove a point? How much fuel was spent just so that you could get your way? Everybody has to choose their own path in life. For me personally, life IS too short to aggravate myself and others just to save a dollar in a situation like that.

Well Put