Dealer says I need a new cylinder head...thoughts?

32 days :o

You need to look into your states lemon laws. Seems to me, they are just throwing parts at a problem and hoping they stick.

Lemon it out and get see if you can find a leftover '11 hanging around somewhere for a smoking deal, and hope that its not a design problem.

Jay

Originally Posted by jashearer

32 days :o

You need to look into your states lemon laws. Seems to me, they are just throwing parts at a problem and hoping they stick.

Lemon it out and get see if you can find a leftover '11 hanging around somewhere for a smoking deal, and hope that its not a design problem.

Jay

Mine was there for 42 days. At least 30 of them was 'waiting for parts from Germany'.

Originally Posted by SpeedyD

Mine was there for 42 days. At least 30 of them was 'waiting for parts from Germany'.

My car was once in the shop for around a month. The bulk of that was waiting on a single sensor from Germany. Everytime my car has needed a part specific to it being a diesel, ends up turning into huge delays for the parts. I find it a little baffling that it seems more the norm than the exception.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

I say BS to the reason being not driving it hard enough. Do not know why but everytime I hear a person given that reason for any car, I cringe. I have heard that reason given from anything to a simple gas powered Bug all te way up to high end AMGs.

I think there may be some truth to the not driving the 335d hard enough. Diesel engines generally thrive on being loaded down so that they reach operating temperature. 425 lb torque moving 3800lb car hardly puts a load on the engine when driven "normally". The x5 on the other hand is heavier and I'm sure the 3.0 is worked harder thus reaching operating temperature quicker. The dealer that fixed mine stated they have not seen any carbon buildup issues with the same engine in the x5d. I'm curious if anyone with an X5 has had similar issues.

Originally Posted by BrianNC81

I think there may be some truth to the not driving the 335d hard enough. Diesel engines generally thrive on being loaded down so that they reach operating temperature. 425 lb torque moving 3800lb car hardly puts a load on the engine when driven "normally". The x5 on the other hand is heavier and I'm sure the 3.0 is worked harder thus reaching operating temperature quicker. The dealer that fixed mine stated they have not seen any carbon buildup issues with the same engine in the x5d. I'm curious if anyone with an X5 has had similar issues.

I still am going to say BS to that being the reason for this happening. But if it is truly the reason then there must be countless non US 335d examples people could show me. Simple fact remains everytime I have heard this reason given for any type car it is pretty hard to find many examples at all of cars with similar issues of their intake/heads "gumming up" and I doubt it is because of a shortage of old ladies to drive the cars in this world. Also if it is because of driving nicely then why did the DDE need to be replaced and I bet could question a number of other items that were thrown at the car in hopes of fixing the problem.

I think it is trying to lay blame on the customer over admitting the car has an issue but they are not too certain what that issue actually is. Accepting reasons like this dealer gives to me implies the cars are poorly engineered for a variety of driving conditions.

Originally Posted by ojk995

Finally, after 32 days, got my 2010 335d back from dealer. They basically replaced the cylinder head, EGR, and DDE(not sure what that is), as well as most of the sensors. What scares the hell out of me is that the SA told me when I picked up the car that the labor alone, if not under warranty, would have been $14,000!! I have 45K miles on the car. He also said the only explanation for the buildup is that I'm not driving the car hard enough.
What can I do? I love the car. For me, it's the perfect combo. of power, handling, and economy. Having said that, I can't rationalize keeping it if I'm going to have to have the whole engine de-gunked every 40K miles. What do you all think about this???

Originally Posted by SpeedyD

I got mine back yesterday also. Same parts replaced as you (Cylinder head, head gasket, EGR Valve, DDE (it is part of the computer that throws the SES lights). My SA told me 9k in parts, probably 5k in labor. Extended warranty time.....mine is at 41k miles.

Approx how many miles do you commute one way in your d's?

Did either of you ask about whether or not the carbon build-up can be cleaned like the service the dealers offer for the 335i?

Originally Posted by cssnms

Approx how many miles do you commute one way in your d's?

Did either of you ask about whether or not the carbon build-up can be cleaned like the service the dealers offer for the 335i?

I use the car as my daily driver. That can mean anything from 1-2 hours of highway driving to short burst around washington, dc. I guess from where I sit, what I expect out of a $45-50K car is to not have to worry about driving it a certain way to avoid problems. Why buy a car for that kind of money if I'm going to have to have at least one other car to drive for occasions which don't fit the usage profile of the d.
I did not ask about the carbon clean up. Also, does anyone think that using the diesel kleen additive will help with the buildup??

Additive might help if for some reason the build up is from a dirty burning fuel. But these cars are direct injection motors and I'd think it would have to be very, very, very dirty to then maybe cause your issue. I highly doubt the issue was caused by quality of fuel combustion.

Originally Posted by ojk995

I use the car as my daily driver. That can mean anything from 1-2 hours of highway driving to short burst around washington, dc. I guess from where I sit, what I expect out of a $45-50K car is to not have to worry about driving it a certain way to avoid problems. Why buy a car for that kind of money if I'm going to have to have at least one other car to drive for occasions which don't fit the usage profile of the d.
I did not ask about the carbon clean up. Also, does anyone think that using the diesel kleen additive will help with the buildup??

Interesting. I was just trying to figure out if this is happening in cars that see fewer miles driven on a daily basis. Doesn't sound like the case here...

As for DK, I use it periodically and one may argue that since it boosts the cetane rating of the fuel it improves combustion efficiency, so if your car's issue is related in any way to poor combustion efficiency due to using poor quality low cetane fuel then using DK w/cetane boost or similar additive might actually help.

That said, you should be aware BMW frowns on additives and given your recent track record you may want to avoid using anything in case your car experiences a recurance. Otheriwise if BMW found out about the addtive, it might give them cause to void your engine warranty by claiming the additive in some wa contributed to the recurance.

I think the best thing to do is stick with name brand quality brand fuels, such as Shell, Chevron, Exxon etc. I try to use Shell exclusively.

Just came across this thread. We had the same symptoms in our 335d - rough idle, hesitation on initial acceleration. VOB also did our repair, and wound up replacing the cylinder head. This was in January of this year, so prior to the OP's problems. I will say that VOB service was great. They never told us that we were driving the car wrong, and ours is a DD so also sees a mix of highway and city. We told the SA that we pretty much only use BP fuel, and he agreed that was about the best we could get. We are closing in on 2.5 yrs and 30k miles, and what really worries me is whether this problem will come up again. This is the first BMW that we bought rather than leased. The car is paid off and we planned to keep this one a long time - we really love it. But, now I'm rethinking our decision. No idea what the extended warranty would cost, or what we would get on a trade just as our warranty is running out. Honestly, as much as I love BMW, this whole experience and the fact that we are not an isolated incident has me thinking that it may be time to look at other brands. Thoughts?

Just thought I'd add to this discussion. Had a similar problem with the car shuddering on idle and the SES light coming on. Took them several days to diagnose. Turned out to be carbon buildup in the entire engine (intakes, injectors, cylinders) and I'm outside of warranty (85k miles). Went back and forth with BMW N.A. customer service and eventually they agreed to pick up the costs to repair. Took weeks to get parts from Germany -- finally got the car back today.

I'm curious at the reasons for the buildup. Would the problems that led to the EGR-related recall result in this kind of buildup?

Originally Posted by DC335i

Just came across this thread. We had the same symptoms in our 335d - rough idle, hesitation on initial acceleration. VOB also did our repair, and wound up replacing the cylinder head. This was in January of this year, so prior to the OP's problems. I will say that VOB service was great. They never told us that we were driving the car wrong, and ours is a DD so also sees a mix of highway and city. We told the SA that we pretty much only use BP fuel, and he agreed that was about the best we could get. We are closing in on 2.5 yrs and 30k miles, and what really worries me is whether this problem will come up again. This is the first BMW that we bought rather than leased. The car is paid off and we planned to keep this one a long time - we really love it. But, now I'm rethinking our decision. No idea what the extended warranty would cost, or what we would get on a trade just as our warranty is running out. Honestly, as much as I love BMW, this whole experience and the fact that we are not an isolated incident has me thinking that it may be time to look at other brands. Thoughts?

That is good to hear that BMW of Rockville (formly VOB) was able to get you squared away. They've really turned a corner at this dealership.

That being said, this issue is very much a concern to me, although less so while under warranty. I will most certainly buy the extended warranty. I would be curious to know if it is this problem that precipitated the EGR recall?

Yeah it is something I am still concerned about and will be getting the extended warranty through 100k for peace of mind. The other option is to sell/trade it but I just love driving it so much....

Do all of the BMW extended warranties cover this sort of repair?

Speaking of warranty, mine is up tomorrow so I just came back from Parkview BMW here in Toronto with a new 3year/80,000km deal.

I bought my 2009 D last August with only 3,800 kms on it. I'm currently at 19,800 kms.

Plan on having the car for awhile so it makes sense to me.

Originally Posted by SpeedyD

This is the same reason I was given. Excessive carbon buildup. Honestly the SES light in my case isn't false, there are drive-ability issues. Hopefully that won't be the case after the replacement but we will see. I will report back once it is completed.

I wasn't aware that carbon buildup issues happened to diesels also?

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

I wasn't aware that carbon buildup issues happened to diesels also?

Sure- with the egr dumping soot into the intake you can have it clog up. Many tdi owners have experienced this.

Driving it hard does help reduce buildup.

I wonder access to the cylinders is pretty similar to the n54? This should be something that can be addressed with walnut blasting.

Hi,
Can the EGR system be blocked off with a solid gasket vers one with a hole in it. I have done this mod on new Toyota V6 Hilux to fix the light throttle serge, seems to me that stopping the exhaust gas re entry in to the intake system will fix all the problems.
If the cylinder head is being replaced due carbon build up one would enquire why the old one can not be cleaned to remove the carbon.
Dave.

No, not without throwing the car into limp mode and check engine lights. There is promise of an egr bypass in the UK, but they have a different egr than the us spec cars, which is a problem in itself. Perhaps one day someone with the skill-set will fabricate an egr bypass for our cars and that there is a reprogrammer that can deal with ensuing check engine light.

Originally Posted by cssnms

No, not without throwing the car into limp mode and check engine lights. There is promise of an egr bypass in the UK, but they have a different egr than the us spec cars, which is a problem in itself. Perhaps one day someone with the skill-set will fabricate an egr bypass for our cars and that there is a reprogrammer that can deal with ensuing check engine light.

The primary problem would be programing, just block it off at the beginning by not allowing it entry to the egr cooler from the exhaust system seems trivial. A bit of stainless steel with a few holes punched in it to connect each side, there also is a controllable valve, maybe just program the valve to shut w/o throwing code.

Originally Posted by wanderlust

The primary problem would be programing, just block it off at the beginning by not allowing it entry to the egr cooler from the exhaust system seems trivial. A bit of stainless steel with a few holes punched in it to connect each side, there also is a controllable valve, maybe just program the valve to shut w/o throwing code.

Yes the the act itself is the easy part, the limp mode/SES lights are what need to be addressed through a reprogram.

Originally Posted by cssnms

Yes the the act itself is the easy part, the limp mode/SES lights are what need to be addressed through a reprogram.

Someone needs to talk that guy in Florida who takes his car to Renntech that he needs to bypass his EGR. Then our problem will be solved on how to bypass them and not get a limp mode

I am having the same problem and have not been able to get anyone at BMW to step up and take care of the costs.

Originally Posted by pjuhlin

I am having the same problem and have not been able to get anyone at BMW to step up and take care of the costs.

Under warranty?