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E90/E92/E93 M3 (2008+)
The latest and greatest V8 powered M3! |
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#1
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Rant: The Death Of BMW’s M Brand
Pretty long rant. He makes some good points but I don't think skipping track duty makes you a poseur.
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#2
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My $0.02.
BMW sells cars. More cars = more profits. Bottom line. It's all about the brand. BMW brand = Rolex Submariner. M brand = Rolex Daytona Chronograph. Any thing with three Mmm stripes these days will sell, from an M-"package" equipped 328i to an X5. On the other hand, there will always be those of us who bought a 2002, or an MT 328i stripper, or the last of the NA V8-powered E92 M3 (me) for the same reasons: Driving enjoyment. A manual gearbox. Taut, supple steering. A smooth willing engine. All wrapped up in a non-descript sedan or coupe. It's 2012, tho. Sigh.
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#3
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This article is accurate IMHO. Thanks for posting.
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2011 Alpine White BMW M3 Coupe 6-speed Manual w/ ZCP. 2008 Alpine White 328i Coupe 6-speed Manual/ BMW Performance Exhaust/ M6 Wheels. (Retired) Future owner of a Jetson's fold-up briefcase car. So I can TRULY park worry free. "what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson |
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#4
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The weight of a modern BMW tells you everything you need to know about this topic.
Z4: 3263 pounds Boxster: 2888 pounds These are incredibly comparable cars and yet it's clear which company put in the extra engineering effort to take out the weight, and which one just doesn't give a damn. Porsche now "out-BMWs" BMW in the sports sedan category (Panameras) and yet still makes Boxsters, Caymans and 911 GT3s, none of which can be touched by anything from BMW.
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Last edited by logicalthought; 07-09-2012 at 07:05 PM. |
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#5
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meh times changes. cars change. do i miss the rattle and hum of the e46? sure. my e60 was fab too.
anyone who has driven an M car understands. it's different. i don't think they screw it up guys. people here have gripes, some legitimate about the F10. have heard some great things about the f30 though. but as long as they make m cars (forget about the decorations, the guts) there will be something you can always count on, in whatever guise. i'm looking forward to seeing the new M3 in a few years. i know whenever i say ANY m3, i'm waving, and they're waving back. embrace the change.
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2013 E70 X5 50i, Saphirschwarz, Dark Burl Walnut Trim, Multi-contour Seats, Sports Activity Package, Premium Sound, Running Boards 2012 E92 M3, Jerezschwarz, Carbon Fiber Leather, Premium Package, Competition Package, Cold Weather Package, EP Sound, CF Roof, Dinan Lower Control Arm Monoball Kit, Dinan Racing Rear Toe Link, Dinan Stage 1 Suspension, Dinan 3:62 LSD, Dinan Underdrive Pulley Kit, Dinan Engine Software |
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#6
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I would not buy this lime thingy. I wish there were cars like the GT3 or M3 CSL/GTS with 4 doors ( minus the roll cages, I need child seats ). Honest passive, mechanical, hydraulic cars with the loving expert tuning of the best motorsport divisions at the legendary brands. Build enthusiasts cars damn it, not luxury barges. Use the technology that gives the best feel and enjoyment today not what is deemed "the future". If all electronic garbage becomes better enthusiast choices than the analogue mechanical beautifully engineered stuff change at that time, not now. Use modern high tech materials to reduce weight and increase structural rigidity but stay away from computer controlled chassis and steering for now. The limerock M3 is still an E92 M3 and a real M imo I just wish the future M takes a few steps in the less is more philosophy. Simplify then add lightness as the Lotus guy said.
Last edited by solstice; 07-09-2012 at 10:33 PM. |
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#7
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Mr. Caswell makes some great points. It appears BMW has gone from producing M Series race cars to producing great money making street cars. It is all about the bottom line. I have a 2012 535I that I bought with the M Sport package and I honestly feel awkward having M badges on this car.
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2012 BMW 535I 14K Miles ED Pick Up on 12/03/2011; US Pick Up on 01/27/1012 Alpine White, M Sport, Blk Nappa, Cold Weather, Luxury Seating, Premium, Premium Sound, Tech, Sports Trans, Active Cruise, Heads-Up Mods - Quad Exhaust Tips, HID Fog Lights, Clear Front Reflectors, M5 Spoiler, Calipers Painted Black, 12.5 mm Rear Wheel Spacers, 5% Tint Rear - 35% Tint Front - 50% Tint Windshield Coding by itschase (Chase) Next; ED of 2014 M4 |
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#8
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Mr Caswell doth protest too much: if he wants a race car then he should build one; Don't whine because BMW's 21st century mass market production factory won't do it for you... really? ![]() Does any serious race car driver buy a factory built car with A/C, stereo, and leather interior and head to the track matrix? As to "M used to mean something": Uhhhh... You mean your poseur ass used to like the brand, I.e., the marketing? But now you dont because it's not quite poseur enough so you're calling people who like a fast factory luxury car poseurs? Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes. I Have a e93 and before that an S4. I never tracked the S4 and won't the e93. Sometimes i care about its fanciness but usually I don't. I just like my luxury cars fast and wicked sounding. I like scaring myself on the way to work. I like being able to pass anybody anytime and corner better and brake faster. If I appreciated the cool looks more I'd probably buy the orange thing but I don't so I have Jerez black. I do like my 2 tone interior though. I also like the engineering. I'd buy a koenigsegg if I wasnt too lazy to make a few mil. Grow up Mr Caswell, and realize who you are ... I have* (*except in those moments at wide open throttle when i get slight air coming off the freeway entry ramp and giggle like a little girl ... Or that killer sweeper freeway exit s-turn when I downsift to 3rd ... Or ...) |
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#9
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Awesome post ^^^
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#10
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I am not certain, but from casual observation, I do not think that the M3 lends itself to poseur duty. I adore my M3 aesthetically and dynamically, but I have found it to be virtually invisible - after all the M3 is just a tweaked 3. I do live in an area where BMWs are ubiquitous, and are viewed as another form of basic transportation. Over the last eight months, I have met a few M3 drivers. A passion for driving is the thread common to all. My experience has been that M3 drivers - young and old - are more concerned about what their cars do for them on the road, and less about what the car says about them. I am sure there are a few poseurs lurking about, but their choice of an M3 is not the obvious one. My PCA experience was quite different - a significant contingent of owners always considered their cars to be a fashion accessory. You drive an M3 cuz you love the driving experience - bright orange paint is jus' a bit of fun. BTW when I see another M3, I always wave, and guess what, I usually get a wave back!
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#11
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>>My PCA experience was quite different - a significant contingent of owners always considered their cars to be a fashion accessory.<<
I never found that (although admittedly, my heavy PCA track days all took place in the early to mid-1990s, with the New York Metro group at tracks such as Bridgehampton, Lime Rock and Watkins Glen). Most guys were shoving massive, spare-filled tool kits and sometimes even four Comp TA R-1s and a camping tent into their 911s, and other than a few one-timers who never showed up again, I don't think I ever met a better (and less pretentious, despite occasional extreme wealth) bunch of motorheads in my life. I do, however, have my suspicions about the FERRARI club, lol.
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#12
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I was raised around Porsches and guys who lived and breathed the brand - I am sure those guys from your racing days are still breathing the Porsche fire. I still lurk over at Rennlist and find it reassuring that The Porsche brand continues to inspire. When I was speaking of a significant contingent I was referring to many who drive a 911 because it is the "correct" sports car. My next door neighbor who had a 997.2 Carrera S used to complain to me that the car was great to drive to a party, "but it would be better if it was not so hard riding and had a little play in the wheel...," really I jest not.
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Last edited by Capobranco; 07-17-2012 at 09:11 PM. |
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#13
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I am not sure why this particular "special edition" pissed him off since there have been plenty of "special edition" M3s in different paints already. I do agree that the M brand is being abused by their marketing team to squeeze every dime from the image conscious buyers (e.g. "special edition" Ms that have only the "special" paint to show for, M-Sport packages that are nothing more than cosmetic kits, etc.).
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2006 Z4 M Coupe (e86) 6MT 2011.5 M3 Convertible (e93) 6MT 2013 M3 Coupe (e92) 6MT on order - ED May '13 |
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#14
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>>While today, 911s, Boxsters, Panameras, Cayennes, and Caymans seem to surround my home, I often wonder if they understand and appreciate what their cars can do...<<
Absolutely! But your post mentioned the PCA, which is why I posted my response. I'm pretty sure that these kinds of folks never bother joining the PCA or, if they do, don't show up to more than one event. I was having a discussion the other day with someone who lamented the Cayenne and Panamera as being indicative that Porsche has lost its roots, but that hasn't stopped them from making great cars such as the Cayman S, Boxster S and 911 GT3. What's amazing is that BMW used to "own" the sports sedan category and yet by any sporting measure, the Panamera Turbo outperforms the new M5 (albeit, at a somewhat higher price). I truly think that Porche's engineers are second to none in this world (in the sub-$200,000 price category), and would love to see what they could do with a small sedan/3-series competitor. As an aside, a friend of mine recently picked up a 1981 928 for next-to-nothing (from an estate sale), and it's amazing to me how little that car has aged (exterior design-wise) in over 30 years. In fact, I think it was so far ahead of its time that it looks just as contemporary today as it did back then (when a lot of folks thought its design was kind of bizarre and ugly).
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#15
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To the first point - if BMW had named this edition "Orange Crush" - no problem - but to issue a commemorative that pays homage to Lime Rock smacks of crass commercialism, if not hubris. More fundamentally, perhaps Bill is alluding to a more profound reality that BMW has morphed into primarily a car company that makes luxury cars endowed with sporting pretensions but this "sportiness" is a veneer. To quote logicalthought " the weight of the modern BMW tells you everything you really need to know". The retort is that BMW has always been a luxury car maker and M works its magic on heavier BMW sedan platforms - indeed, all cars have gotten larger, heavier, and more luxurious in the last 30 years. Moreover, BMWs have always been the value play - I look forward to driving an M5 - but in the mean time perhaps the vids below of the M5 portends good things to come....even taking into account enhanced sound and the extra weight of the F10..... M5 v. PanameraS - (roughly equivalent in price) M5 v PanameraTurbo - as you know the PT is much more expensive... (by some sporting measure - the BMW outperformed the PT) Times are changing - many decry the softer direction of the 991, I really hope that the coming M3/4 is able to put the same giant grin on my face that my M3 does daily...I live in hope, but I am apprehensive. Sorry if this post is somewhat contradictory...maybe kinda reflects where BMW is in the market place, and my angst.
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Last edited by Capobranco; 07-18-2012 at 10:33 AM. |
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#16
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People like those things because it reminds them of the track and their hobbies. If had fond thoughts of lime rock and liked orange I'd probably buy my M3 that way. All of those things, including the M3, are just the bric-a-brad of a hobbyist. And hobbyists like swag, even swag cars. I wonder what the reaction would be if BMW released a batman edition. |
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#17
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Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. Albert Einstein Swim upstream. Go the other way. Ignore the conventional wisdom. If everybody is doing it one way, there’s a good chance you can find your niche by going exactly in the opposite direction", Sam Walton. |
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