Uh-Oh...First 3 Series versus ATS Comparison Test

I'm glad Cadillac is giving BMW serious competition. Bottom line is that BMW has gotten too comfortable being "#1" and while their entry level prices are reasonable, adding levels of gear that are standard from other makes often pushes BMW $5,000-$10,000 over competitive products.

Can't wait for more shootouts to show up.

They should have test the 335i with the 8 speed auto. I am sure it would have a quicker 0-60 time ( 4.7)!

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

I'm glad Cadillac is giving BMW serious competition. Bottom line is that BMW has gotten too comfortable being "#1" and while their entry level prices are reasonable, adding levels of gear that are standard from other makes often pushes BMW $5,000-$10,000 over competitive products.

Can't wait for more shootouts to show up.

I wouldn't say BMW has been complacent. Many changes they made were to cater to people like BJ. Judging by BJ's pre-first drive review, it was a wild success.

Originally Posted by dtc100

I wouldn't say BMW has been complacent. Many changes they made were to cater to people like BJ. Judging by BJ's pre-first drive review, it was a wild success.

The changes very likely catere to people like me as well. If they did not do something about the "Pothole Explosion" issue I would never consider another 3 Series. For the most part the reviews that have been coming in on the F30 (including Emission on Autoblog) have praised the way the F30 drives.

CA

Originally Posted by captainaudio

If you don't believe me try going for a ride around a track with a professional driver in a Honda Accord and you will see how much potential most modern cars have.

Absolutely. The local favorite demo is to take out new students piled into an Explorer. They come back stunned.

I explained that the speaker that were playing were actually the EPI 100s that were sitting next to them and sold for about $90 each.

You knew your stuff. Great little speakers. I replaced mine with a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10s.

Anyone considering a Cadillac I'll do you a favor and ask you a question that a co-worker and friend of mine asked me when I was seriously considering a CST-V about a decade ago ... "How long do you think it will be before parts start falling off it? You may want to consider the extended warrantee"

When saying that, he had no idea that a decade before that, my wife and I were given a Seville by my wife's mother, who got it from her father. It was two years old with 5000 miles on it when my wife's mother got it, and they only drove it for one year; my wife's grandfather would get a new Cadillac every year or two since when he won one in a lottery in the 1950s and alternate passing the old one down to each of his two daughters. So it was only about 3 years old, with like 15,000 miles on it when we got it. We had the car a few years and put a few tens of thousand miles on it. Now I don't know, maybe it's just me. But I don't think if I have a few years old car and it's only got a few tens of thousands of miles on it at the time, that [multiple] interior trim pieces are supposed to fall off, glove compartment no longer close, leather seat on the passenger side start disintegrating, or blinker just decide to detach itself from the car and stay in your hand one of the times you use it...

So I'll ask anyone considering a Cadillac ... "How long do you think it will be until parts start falling off of it?"

It is a lot easier to chase than lead.

Originally Posted by m8o

Anyone considering a Cadillac I'll do you a favor and ask you a question that a co-worker and friend of mine asked me when I was seriously considering a CST-V about a decade ago ... "How long do you think it will be before parts start falling off it? You may want to consider the extended warrantee"

When saying that, he had no idea that a decade before that, my wife and I were given a Seville by my wife's mother, who got it from her father. It was two years old with 5000 miles on it when my wife's mother got it, and they only drove it for one year; my wife's grandfather would get a new Cadillac every year or two since when he won one in a lottery in the 1950s and alternate passing the old one down to each of his two daughters. So it was only about 3 years old, with like 15,000 miles on it when we got it. We had the car a few years and put a few tens of thousand miles on it. Now I don't know, maybe it's just me. But I don't think if I have a few years old car and it's only got a few tens of thousands of miles on it at the time, that [multiple] interior trim pieces are supposed to fall off, glove compartment no longer close, leather seat on the passenger side start disintegrating, or blinker just decide to detach itself from the car and stay in your hand one of the times you use it...

So I'll ask anyone considering a Cadillac ... "How long do you think it will be until parts start falling off of it?"

There is no question that Cadillac had a reliabilty and build quality problem. That does not mean that it still does but that is a very legitimate question. JD Powers give the 2012 CTS-V a good rating for reliability.

FWIW there are not many BMWs at the top of the reliabilty ratings. My 07 335i has been very solid (other than its appetite for tires and rims) but you need a larger sample that one car to determine reliabiity.

CA

Originally Posted by captainaudio

There is no question that Cadillac had a reliabilty and build quality problem. That does not mean that it still does but that is a very legitimate question. JD Powers give the 2012 CTS-V a good rating for reliability.

FWIW there are not many BMWs at the top of the reliabilty ratings but my07 335i has been very solid,

CA

And BMW does not?? RFT anyone, HPFP failure??

Originally Posted by justinnum1

It is a lot easier to chase than lead.

Acttually, from an auto racing perspective at least, its easier to lead. That is why race drivers compete for the pole,

CA

Originally Posted by Elk

You knew your stuff. Great little speakers. I replaced mine with a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10s.

The EPIs were great speakers. I was driving them with McIntosh electronics which certainly brought out the best in them.

CA

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Acttually, from an auto racing perspective at least, its easier to lead. That is why race drivers compete for the pole,

CA

Im not talking about racing...nothing in this thread is about racing.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

It is a lot easier to chase than lead.

You must race -- or know about racing -- bicycles.

With my previous post said, I sure hope Caddi worked out its issues of past. I just went thru a few build processes on Caddi's website and you sure get a lot of car and options for the money. And tho there's something akin to the BMW 'Lines', it's far less restrictive and I'm very happy with the interior and exterior color combos & rims that are available; unlike with BMW's lines.

Originally Posted by m8o

I was seriously considering a CST-V about a decade ago ...
When saying that, he had no idea that a decade before that, my wife and I were given a Seville by my wife's mother, who got it from her father.

So I'll ask anyone considering a Cadillac ... "How long do you think it will be until parts start falling off of it?"

So you're basing your opinion on one car twenty years ago in the all time worst days of a company?



Sent from my Galaxy Tab using BimmerApp

Originally Posted by m8o

You must race -- or know about racing -- bicycles.

haha. Epic joke. kudos to you

Originally Posted by panerai7

What about a resale? You will probably be able to get a 3 year old ATS for 50-55% off.

How much residual do you expect F30 to retain? Lest forget most folks lease these days.

Originally Posted by bayoucity

How much residual do you expect F30 to retain? Lest forget most folks lease these days.

For sale by owner I would expect to get at least 60% with 35-40k miles.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

It is a lot easier to chase than lead.

So if you are a betting man, what is it, ATS likely catching up to BMW, or BMW likely pulling away?

Originally Posted by dtc100

So if you are a betting man, what is it, ATS likely catching up to BMW, or BMW likely pulling away?

If I was a betting man I would not bet on Cadillac to be able to maintain the momentum to actually catch BMW or to stay close in the race for the long term. I think we're beyond the days of BMW being able to pull away from the competition. I think instead they will continue to edge out their competition.

I think an issue that will hamper Cadillac for the long term is that at the core GM is still run by bean counters (I believe; I don't believe that has fundamentally changed), whereas BMW is still a company run by engineers (even though they may have to fight the bean counters).

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I think an issue that will hamper Cadillac for the long term is that at the core GM is still run by bean counters (I believe; I don't believe that has fundamentally changed.) whereas BMW is still a company run by engineers (even though they may have to fight the bean counters).

You're missing the point entirely. This has nothing to do with the quality of the vehicle, the ride, the experience, or the price. This has everything to do with brand.

And when it comes to brand, BMW is atop the pile and Cadillac isn't even close. In order to understand the product you have to think like the customer. And in this case the customer is two very different things. White-collar America aspires to own a BMW. Only blue-collar types want to own a Cadillac. Car ownership is all about bagging the girl. Just like cavemen in ancient times, whoever carries the biggest stick gets the best woman. Your Ford F150 owner needs a Cadillac to bag his barefoot babe at the pig roast. Your Volkswagen GTI owner needs a BMW to bag his trophy wife at the country club.

The streams do not cross. Ms. Cute College wants a man-in-a-suit who drives a BMW, Ms. Dirty Toes wants a man-in-a-jumpsuit who drives a Cadillac.

As such, Cadillac can never take a bite out of BMW. Cadillac can grow its own market share, take sales away from the likes of Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Audi and the other wannabe luxury brands, but BMW is something special. Cadillac and the other frauds aren't status-symbols. They're just luxurious cars. That's the difference. If you pretend racecar drivers would take your heads out of your aspirated asses, you'd see that.

BJ

BJ, when did you acquire that cabriolet?

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

You're missing the point entirely. This has nothing to do with the quality of the vehicle, the ride, the experience, or the price. This has everything to do with brand.

And when it comes to brand, BMW is atop the pile and Cadillac isn't even close. In order to understand the product you have to think like the customer. And in this case the customer is two very different things. White-collar America aspires to own a BMW. Only blue-collar types want to own a Cadillac. Car ownership is all about bagging the girl. Just like cavemen in ancient times, whoever carries the biggest stick gets the best woman. Your Ford F150 owner needs a Cadillac to bag his barefoot babe at the pig roast. Your Volkswagen GTI owner needs a BMW to bag his trophy wife at the country club.

The streams do not cross. Ms. Cute College wants a man-in-a-suit who drives a BMW, Ms. Dirty Toes wants a man-in-a-jumpsuit who drives a Cadillac.

As such, Cadillac can never take a bite out of BMW. Cadillac can grow its own market share, take sales away from the likes of Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Audi and the other wannabe luxury brands, but BMW is something special. Cadillac and the other frauds aren't status-symbols. They're just luxurious cars. That's the difference. If you pretend racecar drivers would take your heads out of your aspirated asses, you'd see that.

BJ

That's right. BJ disagrees with pretty much all the BMW owner's diverse opinions here, except his own. That does not support his claim that he represents 90% of the BMW owner's, because if he were correct, we would have certainly had read one or two other opinions that he could relate to. Yet he is so alone.

Originally Posted by bayoucity

BJ, when did you acquire that cabriolet?

That was the first bimmer, before the ///M328i. That's the car that got us all into this mess.

Originally Posted by bayoucity

BJ, when did you acquire that cabriolet?

August 2007 and had to give it back in November 2009 for an E90 because it was too small for my growing kids and their football equipment. Was a great car, don't regret it at all, but it just didn't work for me.

BJ