Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts

BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-09-2012, 08:25 PM
tonyspumoni tonyspumoni is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 214
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Any thoughts on long term durability of the 335d?

I have 33k on mine now and have had zero problems other than routine maintenance. I keep tabs on the forum and have not observed any trends in engineered defects. This being my first BMW, my question for those of you who have owned more than one or who have many more miles on your 335d is whether the lack of overt problems with the design imply a trouble-free future. When there are design flaws, when would one expect them to emerge. I have mostly owned Japanese cars before this one so i do not have a good frame of reference.
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 08-09-2012, 09:02 PM
floydarogers's Avatar
floydarogers floydarogers is offline
Pedant and Curmudgeon
Location: Renton, WA
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,613
Mein Auto: 335d, 328d, Toyota T100
IME, having owned BMWs for over 30 years, they last just as long or longer than Hondas or Toyotas (we currently have 3 Toys in our drive). The engines are completely bullet-proof, as long as they are maintained (mostly cooling systems). Transmissions were somewhat problematical in the E46 era. Suspension components wear out - this is almost universal, as they're all sealed any more with no grease fittings. It seems pretty obvious that the electrical systems are a problem spot in recent years, but at least they're not Lucas! The bodies remain solid out beyond 200K miles.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-09-2012, 11:52 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
I have a really hard time believing that any modern car can't last to at least 200k miles with minimal repairs and of course all maintenance done. In my experience at least one high dollar repair happens somewhere in the 150-200k range for any make/model. The exceptions to this still usually do not present the needed repairs until post 100k miles. I have a feeling this is why most manufacturers are so willing to do CPO warranties up to at least 100k miles these days.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-11-2012, 01:15 AM
AZ335D AZ335D is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: AZ
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 102
Mein Auto: BMW 335d
Mine has been in the shop an average of once every 2-3 months for non-scheduled repairs for the last year and a half. I will be turning mine in at the end of the lease. I will miss the driving, but not the lack of reliablity. Every time I get in it now I wonder if the SES light is going to stay on.

Most of the repairs have been related to the SCR system, however, this year I had a steering angle sensor fail and then a couple of weeks later, an injector failure.

This car has been in the shop for non-scheduled repairs more than all of the other four cars I have, combined. I am so glad this car is under warranty, If I had to pay for all these repairs, it would be gone. I love the way it drives, but at this point, I am scared to take it out of town.
__________________
'10 BMW 335D lots of goodies
'06 F350 Lariat CC 4x4 diesel
'00 Honda S2000 (9000 RPM of wind in the hair fun)
Torque - I know the highs and lows.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-11-2012, 03:27 PM
KF KF is offline
Registered User
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: X3
335d Life

Hi all

All low emishion diesels have the Diesel Particulate Filter problem. It will wear out just like a set of brake pads, but unlike brake pads that will cost a couple of hundred dollars to replace the DPF will cost several thousand to replace. Effectively eliminating any fuel cost savings you may have had during the life of the car up to that stage.

KF
X3 30d
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-11-2012, 09:22 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Savannah
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 563
Mein Auto: 2011 335d Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by KF View Post
Hi all

All low emishion diesels have the Diesel Particulate Filter problem. It will wear out just like a set of brake pads, but unlike brake pads that will cost a couple of hundred dollars to replace the DPF will cost several thousand to replace. Effectively eliminating any fuel cost savings you may have had during the life of the car up to that stage.

KF
X3 30d
Gee, that depends on how you look at it. A 335i might get 18 mpg overall vs 26 mpg for the 335d. With diesel costing 10% more than premium, over 200,000 miles, the savings would be as follows:

Cost of fuel for 335i with 18 mpg and premium at $3.75/gal in 200,000 miles: $41,667
Cost of diesel for 335d with 26 mpg and diesel at $4.00/gal in 200,000 miles: $30,769

The fuel savings is substantial. At the end of 200,000 miles, there may be a premium in the diesel's resale value as much as $5000. This was my experience with the 2005 E320 CDI that I sold to my mechanic at 203,000 miles. I might have been ahead of a less powerful, less responsive gasoline version to the tune of $15,000 in expenses, not to mention what an equally powerful V8 engine would have cost in comparison instead.

Gasoline engines have their own issues during 200,000 miles, the fuel pump, top end, and fuel injectors themselves as problem areas. It seems that a DPF problem would not occur with every 335d out there either.

Do the Math. I don't believe a 335i gets much North of 20 mpg average, but your numbers may differ according to the driving you do. Many 335d owners average over 32 mpg.

PL
__________________
Rose Castorini: I just want you to know no matter what you do, you're gonna die, just like everybody else.
Cosmo Castorini: Thank you, Rose. - Moonstruck
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-11-2012, 11:07 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
My experience with selling and buying 200k miled cars is most are all around the same cost if they looking at like conditioned cars at least.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-11-2012, 11:41 PM
KF KF is offline
Registered User
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: X3
DPF Cost

Hi everyone,

Have you checked the cost of a BMW DPF? You may also need two replacements in your 200,000 miles too!

Many are have to replace long before 100,000miles, typicle life being 120 thousand to 150 thousand kilometers.

Yes I understand that US diesels have addBlue which may extend the DPF life but the Australian cars do not and BMW Australia will not stand behind any DPF problems from new.

KF
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-12-2012, 12:03 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
I thought the life expectancy of a DPF was around 120-150k miles. I do believe places exist that can rebuild the old ones. I personally would just bypass it if I keep my car that long and it becomes an issue. I am figuring a straight pipe and a ECU flash will cost me about the same amount of money. I'd probably have the cat bypassed at the same time. In my mind once a car has that many miles it is all about making it last for the least amount of money.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-12-2012, 04:36 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Savannah
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 563
Mein Auto: 2011 335d Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
My experience with selling and buying 200k miled cars is most are all around the same cost if they looking at like conditioned cars at least.
It may be also related to where you are dealing.

NADA guides for similar models of same condition figures show 2-3K difference w/ diesel coming out better:

All w/ 200,000 miles: trade in: rough/average/clean; clean retail
2005 E320 CDI w/HK stereo: $5,460/$7,910/$9,985; $13,385
2005 E320 w/HK stereo: $3,785/$6,060/$7,960; $11,135
2005 VW Passat GLS TDI turbo: $3,425/$4,725/$5,775; $8,675
2005 VW Passat GLS turbo: $1,570/$2,670/$3,570; $6,095

The cost of diesel when new for Mercedes was only about $1000 but the extra power was much more like the V8 version which was about 6-8K more and sells for prices closer to the above used.

I did a bit better than average and local/state auction prices were higher for the CDI at the time. My mechanic knew the car and how well it was taken care of too.

It all depends on how much maintenance and repair go into the new diesel engine designs compared to equally complex gasoline direct injection engines over 200,000 miles. The DPF is an extra that is from too much government intrusion but has a silver lining.

Anyone familiar with the research on particulate matter can tell you they ignore the very small particulates that gasoline vehicles spew and that really do get into the lungs - likely worse than any diesel, but we might never find out because the research isn't being done. The research that is being done does not discount the large particulates that fall to the ground and are not inhaled because they take everything directly from the exhaust. But at least we can say our cars are extra clean, enough for the inside of the exhaust tips to be free of the black soot found on the cleanest hybrid gasoline cars.

I don't necessarily mind spending the extra money on the DPF which still can be recovered at resale and over time with fuel savings.

PL
__________________
Rose Castorini: I just want you to know no matter what you do, you're gonna die, just like everybody else.
Cosmo Castorini: Thank you, Rose. - Moonstruck

Last edited by Pierre Louis; 08-12-2012 at 04:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-12-2012, 04:41 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
There are of course exceptions to what I have experienced but those tend to be those rarely desirable cars. Heck people still pay stupid amounts of money for falling apart old Mercedes 240D models yet damn near anything else from that ere fetches about what it is worth in scrap metal. As I understand it people fight over getting CDI Mercedes and a lot of the TDI year ranges fetch huge premiums, both because of those models reputations.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-12-2012, 04:45 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Savannah
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 563
Mein Auto: 2011 335d Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
There are of course exceptions to what I have experienced but those tend to be those rarely desirable cars. Heck people still pay stupid amounts of money for falling apart old Mercedes 240D models yet damn near anything else from that ere fetches about what it is worth in scrap metal. As I understand it people fight over getting CDI Mercedes and a lot of the TDI year ranges fetch huge premiums, both because of those models reputations.
Yes, and your point is? Its the diesel engine that makes them so!

Actually the models I mentioned do not have good reputations for the 2005 year. The first CDI that came over had problems with the EGR and suspension while the Passats had some problems with transmissions. Both are a bit rare but available on the open market and auctions I believe.

PL
__________________
Rose Castorini: I just want you to know no matter what you do, you're gonna die, just like everybody else.
Cosmo Castorini: Thank you, Rose. - Moonstruck
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-12-2012, 04:52 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Savannah
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 563
Mein Auto: 2011 335d Sport
There are pundits, like those in the WSJ, that are cautious about the long term reliability of modern diesels. They worry about the high pressure fuel injection systems as well as the expensive add-on pollution control equipment too. I don't believe the naysayers about fuel quality after reading most of the technical publications, including Bosch and NSTM.

My approach is to avoid putting in any additives which are more likely to upset the chemistry of fuel supplier additives and just stick with the best branded fuel such as Chevron for its reputation and additive. This and driving the thing in the way it was meant to be driven may be the best solution for the DPF, we shall see.

The 335d hasn't been around long enough in the North American market to see how it does. European driving is different as well as the approach to maintenance, so we shall see. Witness how Fiat has done over the years in Europe vs NA.

PL
__________________
Rose Castorini: I just want you to know no matter what you do, you're gonna die, just like everybody else.
Cosmo Castorini: Thank you, Rose. - Moonstruck

Last edited by Pierre Louis; 08-12-2012 at 04:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-12-2012, 04:57 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
My point being I have looked at 240D cars for sale for $1-2k and they were utter pieces of crap, shot bodies, rust, shot interiors, most "accessories" not working and so on. They were not worth more than about $500 due to the condition of everything outside those diesel engines. Its that specific diesel engine that makes them so, not just because it is a diesel engine. My 2003 truck with its diesel engine is not worth much more than my 1985 300SD with it's diesel engine, car has 205k and truck 218k or so. I have owned two other 1985 Mercedes, a 380SE and 500SEL, both were worth about what my 300SD was when I got it.

I also do not trust NADA one bit. I looked at a 2011 C63 here recently and it's NADA price was $2k less than it's MSRP(including gas guzzler tax and destination charges) was when it sold new 2 years ago. Yet you can find TON of 2011 C63 cars selling for easily $10k less than their MSRP was, I even found new ones still on the lot for $15k-18k less than MSRP.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-12-2012, 08:23 AM
cssnms cssnms is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Murland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 715
Mein Auto: '11 335d
If you kept tabs on the forum then you would know there is already another thread on this very subject both here and on e90 post under the UK section. After reading those threads I don't see how you could state you have not noticed any engineering defect trends???? How about the following.... Clogged metering valves, head replacement, a/c compressor belt squeal, injector replacement etc....
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-13-2012, 09:46 AM
AutoUnion's Avatar
AutoUnion AutoUnion is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New England
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,154
Mein Auto: German
Most of the 355d on Ebay seem to be high mileage.

that being said, I brought this up with my local SA and he was telling me about a customer with a 335d with over 180k miles on it. Apparently the guy drives it up and down the coast. I feel for the guy. Hopefully, he has the sports seats
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-13-2012, 01:23 PM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SE United States
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,203
Mein Auto: 335D, 435i (Ordered)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KF View Post
Hi everyone,

Have you checked the cost of a BMW DPF? You may also need two replacements in your 200,000 miles too!

Many are have to replace long before 100,000miles, typicle life being 120 thousand to 150 thousand kilometers.

Yes I understand that US diesels have addBlue which may extend the DPF life but the Australian cars do not and BMW Australia will not stand behind any DPF problems from new.

KF
How long have you guys been burning ULSD?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-13-2012, 01:41 PM
3ismagic#'s Avatar
3ismagic# 3ismagic# is offline
HerrDoktorProfessor
Location: land of milk and honey
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,094
Mein Auto: '11 335d
I am cautiously optimistic about the long-term reliability of my 335d. There are known issues which seem to have been addressed either in production or in recall. My July 2011 build did not even require the recall.

After a year and about 12k miles my car has only had oil-change and one replaced tire (screw in the sidewall).
The thing I am most concerned about are rising requirements of biodiesel content beyond which some engine components were designed for.

I have 3 years left on the warranty. By then there will be much more "data" about the long-term reliability of these cars. As I get closer to expiration I will crunch some numbers and see if it makes sense to keep the car and whether to get an extended warranty.
__________________

Entertaining America Since 1975
European Delivery July 26th 2011
ED Video: https://vimeo.com/60051914
ED Trip Report:http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=557294

335d| Deep Sea Blue| Black/Aluminum | Stuff | Gadgets | More Stuff | Power Whatnots | Auto-Verbing Nouns
BMWCCA #448878
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-13-2012, 02:59 PM
TDIwyse TDIwyse is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Midwest
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 405
Mein Auto: 4 diesels
There's a lot of options out there for cleaning the DPF instead of replacing which substantially lowers cost. For example:

http://www.dieselfiltercleaning.com/landing-page.php

Although, there are also options (in Europe as of right now) for eliminating the DPF all together . . .
__________________
2011 335d 11.8 sec 120 mph 1/4 mile NHRA certified track

2004 Ram Cummins with lots-o-mods
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-23-2014, 04:32 PM
twgdotcom twgdotcom is offline
Registered User
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: 2010 BMW 335d
60K miles and nothing crazy. Oil changes and a warped brake rotor. One sensor went bad but BMW paid for the replacement as it was very early for it to fail. I plan on putting at least 200K on the car if possible.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-23-2014, 05:59 PM
diesel fan123 diesel fan123 is offline
Registered User
Location: Central Florida
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 24
Mein Auto: 335d
68k miles
My experience has been like AZ335D reported, the SES comes on every few weeks, neither the dealer or BMW can fix it. 80% of the time it is :

"P02D2 BMW Cylinder 4 Fuel Injector Offset Learning At Min Limit"

The rest of the time the code is the same, except it is injector #2, or 3.

But the car runs great, functions perfectly, so I made a deal w/ the service rep - I don't bring it in any more, just drive it with the SES permanently on.

I check w/ a scanner every month or so to see if any new codes have appeared, none yet.

I won't keep the 335d, when it nears end of CPO, I'll sell/trade it on something else for the wife to drive (it's her turn for a new vehicle).
Never had a BMW before the 335d, never will again. Neither will any of my family or co-workers, after witnessing this debacle.

I have restored a 1985 300TD and partially restored a 1985 300SD, I will drive those for 20 more years after the BMW is gone.

Frank
__________________
1983 300TD = old clacker 370,000
1985 300SD = Son's Diesel cruiser 337,000
1985 300TD = Dad's Diesel wagon 187,000
2010 335d = Dad's toy 68,000
1992 Kubota Diesel tractor = mutant lawn mower 370hrs
2000 Ford Powerstroke Diesel = Wife's Toyota crusher 258,000
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-23-2014, 07:14 PM
tonyspumoni tonyspumoni is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 214
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
The thing that kills me is that from time to time you'll read a post on this forum claiming that we who have had major 335d problems are just whiners who neither represent a majority nor, by implication, even a minority. I guess we are just bad eggs intent upon bringing everyone down in happy, trouble-free BMW-land.

Yet what these posters forget is that most of us joined the forum long BEFORE we began having problems, not AFTERWARDS. I read post the other day saying "CBU - just get over it already" or some such tosh - like it isn't a problem. I have been here a very long time, since 2010 when I bought my first 335d. I was smitten with it like I haven't ever been with a car. I began having troubles right around 20k miles and pretty much had something go bad about every 5k after that to 65k. I had my 2011 from 17k to 26k and threw four unresolved SES lights in a row before I said f**k it - donesville. Fool me once - your fault. Fool me twice - my fault.

Unfortunately it seems rather obvious - more obvious so some than others - that this car was equipped with a poorly designed propulsion system prone to failure at multiple nodes. Emissions? Bad. Injectors? Lots. (I had two replaced myself at one point). CBU? Commonplace. You know how many SES lights any of my wife's three Priuses have thrown combined since she bought her first one back in 2003? Zero SES lights, that's how many. Drivability aside, it was and remains far more well-engineered than the 335d. Some owners may not have had troubles and some of those will and others won't. But given the tight manufacturing tolerances and the fact that it isn't rings, valves, clutches, or other wear components that are failing, doesn't it make you wonder if you do own one when your turn will come? Either the 335d was poorly designed OR it was shoddily manufactured (or perhaps both) if there is such a wide experience of THE SAME commonplace problems.

I like your solution - ignore it for now with a plan to ditch it later - but that would've driven me nuts - a constant reminder of BMW's hubris. There is ample evidence that the legend of the superiority of German engineering is really just a myth, much like the alleged superiority of our armies leading us to engage in wars we don't win.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-23-2014, 08:19 PM
DaveN007 DaveN007 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Northern California
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 161
Mein Auto: 2011 335d M-Sport
I am tempted to see what BMW would offer me to trade in my car.

Kelley has my car at exactly the same range as a 335i.

Anyone consider trading in for an equivalent 335i?
__________________
2011 Alpine White on Brown Dakota 335d M-Sport * Premium* Cold Weather * Harmon Kardon * XM
2012 Carrara White on Black 987R (Porsche Cayman R)
2015 Corvette Z06 (Coming Soon)

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-23-2014, 09:59 PM
magbarn magbarn is online now
Waiting for the d
Location: LA, CA
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 793
Mein Auto: '10 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN007 View Post
I am tempted to see what BMW would offer me to trade in my car.

Kelley has my car at exactly the same range as a 335i.

Anyone consider trading in for an equivalent 335i?
No way no how. Considering that BMW no longer imports one single new naturally aspirated vehicle to the US means I've written BMW off entirely after this car.
__________________

'10 335d Monaco blue/oyster/SP/PP/Enhanced Premium Sound/nav from phillipek SBBMW
Click Here for Pics!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-23-2014, 09:59 PM
henrycyao henrycyao is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 365
Mein Auto: BMW X5 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyspumoni View Post
I like your solution - ignore it for now with a plan to ditch it later - but that would've driven me nuts - a constant reminder of BMW's hubris. There is ample evidence that the legend of the superiority of German engineering is really just a myth, much like the alleged superiority of our armies leading us to engage in wars we don't win.
I agree the Germany do not have hold on engineering. It is all about optimization and trade offs. Sometimes one company does it better than the other. The other time it does not. What is important is to learn from your mistake and gradually improve the product these company offers to consumers.

Lets see if 328d experiences the same issue as 335d. If it does, I think BMW has really lost their edge. Perhaps the crown belong to some one else.
__________________
2012 BMW X5 Vermilion Red Xdrive35d with Premium Package, 3rd Row Seats, and Adaptive Drive



Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms