750Li xDrive vs. Stage 1 vs. Stage 2

I will try that CAB.

I stopped by the dealer this afternoon to see if they have heard anything from Dinan. Dinan's theory is that the software is not installed correctly despite what their computer say's. They believe the slight increase in my numbers are more from my driving habits than the software. I am scheduled to take the car back in Monday morning and the Dinan rep will be there to oversee the install. Keeping my fingers crossed! I will say it again, my dealer and Dinan are treating me straight up. It would make this process so much harder if they were fighting me all the way.

Back to the dealer again today to re-install the Stage 2. I watched the computer as it did the download and everything appeared to go smoothly. I drove the car and it “felt” great and if I were a betting man, I would say the software is installed. However, since I convinced myself that it was installed last time and it wasn’t, I am heading back to the track on Thursday to find out for sure.

Yep, numbers don't lie, hopefully it will work this time.

Originally Posted by CABimmerNation

Mine does, but then again you have x-drive. I think they were referring to non x-drive. Turn all traction off, drop it into 1st and hammer to the floor. Tires light up and it slides out sideways through 1st and 2nd.

My stock 750 does that as well as the e65 750 did it, hell even my 530i can do that. So it's hardly a measure of anything.

Originally Posted by beamlord

My stock 750 does that as well as the e65 750 did it, hell even my 530i can do that. So it's hardly a measure of anything.

You have some very special cars there, we must have a very different definition of what the above means.

Originally Posted by CABimmerNation

You have some very special cars there, we must have a very different definition of what the above means.

Think we can barely find different definitions of spinning tires.

Originally Posted by beamlord

Think we can barely find different definitions of spinning tires.

My 750 did not break loose, light up the rear tires and slide out sideways stock, but now it does with the Dinan installed. Maybe the cars in Germany come stock with 500hp/ 580lb ft.

Hopefully, your track results will improve significantly. I've taken my car to the track after every Dinan install, since I'm not a fan of "we installed the software" and there being no physical proof. My sub-four second 0-60 runs and 12.5-12.6 sec 1/4 mile runs prove to me that the software was actually installed. I would expect a Dinan Stage 2 F01 to hit the quarter mile in 12.7-12.8 seconds.

Originally Posted by CABimmerNation

My 750 did not break loose, light up the rear tires and slide out sideways stock, but now it does with the Dinan installed. Maybe the cars in Germany come stock with 500hp/ 580lb ft.

Maybe. For all I know, it slides sideways on sport+.

I went by the track again tonight to give it another shot after we reloaded the Stage 2. Here is the comparison of the stock numbers to Stage 2.

*******>********>

		Stock
	7/12/2012
	#1	#2	#3	#4
Reaction	0.3137	0.5889	0.5664	0.399
60 FT	2.2773	2.1385	2.1037	2.1656
330 FT	6.0046	5.8357	5.7915	5.8694
1/8 ET	9.0102	8.8254	8.7732	8.858
1/8 MPH	83.33	83.44	83.66	83.46
1000 ET	11.5525	11.353	11.2925	11.3853
1000 MPH	97.15	97.42	97.76	97.36
1/4 ET	13.7173	13.4773	13.4106	13.5143
1/4 MPH	99.91	105.98	106.26	105.09

*******>********>

		Stage 2
		8/16/2012
	#1	#2	#3	#4	#5
Reaction	0.0932	0.031	0.5953	0.3246	0.181
60 FT	2.0987	2.1173	2.0843	1.9898	1.9518
330 FT	5.704	5.7161	5.6908	5.5956	5.5424
1/8 ET	8.6308	8.6364	8.6092	8.5262	8.4615
1/8 MPH	85.37	85.62	85.62	85.23	85.63
1000 ET	11.1073	11.1068	11.0798	11.0068	10.9315
1000 MPH	99.47	99.91	99.43	99.03	99.45
1/4 ET	13.1995	13.1957	13.1665	13.1015	13.0181
1/4 MPH	107.32	107.53	108.04	107.6	108.1

Stock I averaged 13.4674 @ 105.77
Stage 2 I averaged 13.1362 @ 107.72

So for 100 extra hp and 130 lbs of torque I shaved .3312 off the qtr mile and picked up 1.95 mph.

Still no good, that's more of 20-40HP increase, and most likely is because the tranny is adopting your more aggressive driving style.

Well I don't know what else to do. Dealer and Dinan says it's fine. I guess I need someone else with a 2012 750 Li xdrive car w/ stage 2 installed to go to the track and post up their numbers. My last run was a little quicker because I power braked it up to about 2500 rpm.

If in fact stage 2 is installed on the car and this is what it can do, I have to really scratch my head and wonder how that is worth almost 4k.

This sucks, what a pain in the ass for you. Did you ever run 0-60 times? I believe stock 750i with or without xdrive is 5.0 and 750li is 5.1 with or without xdrive. Timed my 750i at 5 consistently when stock and now runs 4.3 consistently. This does not jive with your 1/4 mile times. Try some 0-60 runs. Like I said before, it's sad how many people are drive around without Dinan installed, thinking it is. What a scam.

I went to the dealer with my spreadsheets this morning and they forwarded them on to Dinan for evaluation. Late this afternoon I received a call from Dan at Dinan. He went thru all of my numbers and believes the stage 2 is installed in the car and operating correctly. I told him that my expectations were to be around 12.7 in the qtr mile after the upgrade. He explained how they calculated the HP and Torque gains and I will not try to tell you what he said because I will surely screw it up. They have charts and we figured up that if I wanted to be running around 12.5 with my estimated 5200 lb car (with gas and me included) the car would have to be pumping out about 700 HP. The problem is that my expectations for this upgrade were not realistic. I agree my car “feels” faster and “pulls” harder, it’s just hard to pick that up in the track numbers. After speaking with him, I believe the car is running the way it is supposed to, so I am okay with it. If anyone would like to speak with Dan for explanations, PM me and I will give you his direct line.

P.S. I was told this morning by my dealer and Dinan that after the first install of Dinan Stage 2, that there was an error in the download. The Dealers computer said it was successful, but there was an error on Dinan's side that we didn't know about. That would help explain the lower track times.

Ahh, if the S2 is installed correctly, I really don't know if it worth the money then.

I guess all you have left is to live with it or get it removed. 0.33 faster to 107mph??? Really? I'm 0.7 faster to 60mph. I would think at least 1 full second or more faster to 107. So what are you 0-60? .1 faster? for $3500? Not even close to worth it.

Originally Posted by Richard109

Stock I averaged 13.4674 @ 105.77
Stage 2 I averaged 13.1362 @ 107.72

So for 100 extra hp and 130 lbs of torque I shaved .3312 off the qtr mile and picked up 1.95 mph.

Man, I feel for your situation. I tried a couple of online horsepower calculators:

Stock
ET-based: 420hp
Trap-based: 480hp
Average: 450hp

Dinan:
ET-based: 453hp
Trap-based: 507hp
Average: 480hp

It looks like your car is still down on power for some reason. Have you checked your air filters? Are you running 93 Octane?

My car:
ET-based: 476hp
Trap-based: 529hp
Average: 502hp

You can also put your 1/8th times into one of these calculators to get a 0-60 estimate.

The Alpina runs 12.8/ 12.9 1/4 mile, as per various internet sites. Also states the Alpina's 0-60 of 4.5. I think a properly dinan tuned 750 is faster than a Alpina, I'm 4.3 0-60. You would think 100 more hp and 130 more lb ft would do more.

Originally Posted by CABimmerNation

The Alpina runs 12.8/ 12.9 1/4 mile, as per various internet sites. Also states the Alpina's 0-60 of 4.5. I think a properly dinan tuned 750 is faster than a Alpina, I'm 4.3 0-60. You would think 100 more hp and 130 more lb ft would do more.

No offense but until you have a precise race-track timed 0-60 measurement, documented with a proper statistical sigma calculation, no sane person is buying the mobile-phone-on-the-fly-tacho measured 4.3 seconds. Keep in mind 60 mph on your tacho is around 55 real speed, too.

The latest Audi S8 which weighs 450lbs less, has more torque and hp and an awesome 8 speed tranny, and, well, overall a faster car by miles, does 4.2s. The new m5 which weighs substantialy less and is, duh, an m5, goes 4.4s. Your f01 can't be on the same level, period. I'm guessing realistically you have around 4.7 not less. By the way, stock f01 is stated as 5.1 and *not* 5, this is yet another wrong statement from you.

The results seen from Richards car seem actually very realistic and they are also correctly measured and can be trusted.

You don't get a linear increase of speed after a certain point, this is physics and not primitive math.

Originally Posted by CABimmerNation

I guess all you have left is to live with it or get it removed. 0.33 faster to 107mph??? Really? I'm 0.7 faster to 60mph. I would think at least 1 full second or more faster to 107. So what are you 0-60? .1 faster? for $3500? Not even close to worth it.

I was expecting numbers closer to what you are thinking, but it ain’t happing, lol.

I tried the 0-60 timing with my phone and the numbers were around 5.2, which is close to stock. I did the same test in a new stock 750 li w/xdrive and it was around 5.5. I didn’t find this method to be very accurate so I gave up on it.

I have also notice that watching my heads up display while going down the track, my speed was always off. There is definitely a lag in the HUD when accelerating and braking.

Is it worth $3500 for this? That is something that each of us will have to make the call on. Although the track numbers do not show extraordinary results, the car does feel different and sounds meaner when you floor it. Now I’m starting to sound like Dinan, “does your car feel faster”? lol.

dunderhi, My car has about 2k miles on it, so I have assumed it is not a problem with the air filters. And I do run 93 Octane.

I asked Dan (Dinan) if they ever comment on threads like this to give their “professional” opinion and he said he used to, but a lot of the times the threads would go south and turn into a pissing match.

Originally Posted by beamlord

No offense but until you have a precise race-track timed 0-60 measurement, documented with a proper statistical sigma calculation, no sane person is buying the mobile-phone-on-the-fly-tacho measured 4.3 seconds. Keep in mind 60 mph on your tacho is around 55 real speed, too.

The latest Audi S8 which weighs 450lbs less, has more torque and hp and an awesome 8 speed tranny, and, well, overall a faster car by miles, does 4.2s. The new m5 which weighs substantialy less and is, duh, an m5, goes 4.4s. Your f01 can't be on the same level, period. I'm guessing realistically you have around 4.7 not less. By the way, stock f01 is stated as 5.1 and *not* 5, this is yet another wrong statement from you.

The results seen from Richards car seem actually very realistic and they are also correctly measured and can be trusted.

You don't get a linear increase of speed after a certain point, this is physics and not primitive math.

I did 10-12 stop watch measurements when stock and 10-12 after the dinan tune. They were all within .1 of 5 when stock and .1 of 4.3 when tuned. so say what you want, it's a good way to see if it's installed or not. Remember, BMW tried to pull the same crap with me the first time they installed the software. It wasn't installed and my 0-60 times were still 4.9-5.1 every time.

You really need to do a little more research if you want to comment here with facts. 750i stock is 5.0, 750li is 5.1. Also numbers the the new M5 are all over the place on the internet, but should be under 4.

Yes, Richards numbers prove his software was not installed correctly.

I have also raced a 2012 M3 coupe in a straight line and slowly walked away from him, 0-60 on the M3 being 4.4.

So piss on everything I say all you want, it doesn't change the fact that I have proven that the Dinan is installed correctly on my car. Also I do my 0-60 stopwatch voodoo everytime I get the car back from the dealership, even if they tell me they haven't upgarded the software.

Maybe do some upgrades yourself and stop armchairing things you have no first hand knowledge of.

The new M5 can do 60 in 3.8 sec, M3 is aroung 4.3-4.4, if a s2 7 can go head to head withM3, then the time should be silimar. Also, I'm thinking maybe because Richard's 7 is too new to achieve better time, driving till 10k and try again.

Originally Posted by beamlord

No offense but until you have a precise race-track timed 0-60 measurement, documented with a proper statistical sigma calculation, no sane person is buying the mobile-phone-on-the-fly-tacho measured 4.3 seconds. Keep in mind 60 mph on your tacho is around 55 real speed, too.

The latest Audi S8 which weighs 450lbs less, has more torque and hp and an awesome 8 speed tranny, and, well, overall a faster car by miles, does 4.2s. The new m5 which weighs substantialy less and is, duh, an m5, goes 4.4s. Your f01 can't be on the same level, period. I'm guessing realistically you have around 4.7 not less. By the way, stock f01 is stated as 5.1 and *not* 5, this is yet another wrong statement from you.

The results seen from Richards car seem actually very realistic and they are also correctly measured and can be trusted.

You don't get a linear increase of speed after a certain point, this is physics and not primitive math.

You are using some pretty conservative numbers. The Audi S8 has 20 more hp, but 100 less ftlbs torque than Dinan and it has been tested 0-60 in 4.0 seconds. The M5 has been tested at 3.6 seconds 0-60.

Since the F01 has been around for a few years, C&D has plenty of 0-60 test data:

4.3s - 2011 B7 (4710lbs)
4.3s - 2011 B7x (4886lbs)
4.4s - 2010 760Li (5150lbs)
4.5s - 2011 7AH (4807lbs)
5.1s - 2011 740i (4381lbs)
5.1s - 2010 750Lxi (4980lbs)
5.2s - 2009 750i (4760lbs)
5.2s - 2009 750Li (4475lbs)
5.3s - 2011 750Li (4602lbs)


Road & Track didn't do as many tests, but they were faster:

4.3s - 2011 B7 (4795lbs)
4.3s - 2011 760Li (5000lbs)
4.9s - 2010 750i (4600lbs)
4.9s - 2009 750Li (4735lbs)


Now none of these acceleration numbers are guarunteed for any particular car. There are a few of us over in the F10 forum that have taken our Dinan cars to the dragstrip and our results have varied quite a bit. Track run #2: 1/4 mile times w/ Stage III

I suspect if we had taken our cars to the track while they were still stock we still would have seen variations in results.

Originally Posted by CABimmerNation

I did 10-12 stop watch measurements when stock and 10-12 after the dinan tune. They were all within .1 of 5 when stock and .1 of 4.3 when tuned. so say what you want, it's a good way to see if it's installed or not. Remember, BMW tried to pull the same crap with me the first time they installed the software. It wasn't installed and my 0-60 times were still 4.9-5.1 every time.

You really need to do a little more research if you want to comment here with facts. 750i stock is 5.0, 750li is 5.1. Also numbers the the new M5 are all over the place on the internet, but should be under 4.

Yes, Richards numbers prove his software was not installed correctly.

I have also raced a 2012 M3 coupe in a straight line and slowly walked away from him, 0-60 on the M3 being 4.4.

So piss on everything I say all you want, it doesn't change the fact that I have proven that the Dinan is installed correctly on my car. Also I do my 0-60 stopwatch voodoo everytime I get the car back from the dealership, even if they tell me they haven't upgarded the software.

Maybe do some upgrades yourself and stop armchairing things you have no first hand knowledge of.

All I see is more trash talk and no proof.. At this I leave you to what you do best - stop watch measurements and arrogant bashing. You're not even able to do some basic research and check the official BMW site to find the m5 time of 4.3, kinda shows how all your other statements work out.
The last comment is not just arrogant, but simply a derision.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

You are using some pretty conservative numbers. The Audi S8 has 20 more hp, but 100 less ftlbs torque than Dinan and it has been tested 0-60 in 4.0 seconds. The M5 has been tested at 3.6 seconds 0-60.

Since the F01 has been around for a few years, C&D has plenty of 0-60 test data:

4.3s - 2011 B7 (4710lbs)
4.3s - 2011 B7x (4886lbs)
4.4s - 2010 760Li (5150lbs)
4.5s - 2011 7AH (4807lbs)
5.1s - 2011 740i (4381lbs)
5.1s - 2010 750Lxi (4980lbs)
5.2s - 2009 750i (4760lbs)
5.2s - 2009 750Li (4475lbs)
5.3s - 2011 750Li (4602lbs)


Road & Track didn't do as many tests, but they were faster:

4.3s - 2011 B7 (4795lbs)
4.3s - 2011 760Li (5000lbs)
4.9s - 2010 750i (4600lbs)
4.9s - 2009 750Li (4735lbs)


Now none of these acceleration numbers are guarunteed for any particular car. There are a few of us over in the F10 forum that have taken our Dinan cars to the dragstrip and our results have varied quite a bit. Track run #2: 1/4 mile times w/ Stage III

I suspect if we had taken our cars to the track while they were still stock we still would have seen variations in results.

Stock m5 has been tested at 4.2 - 4.4, GRIP tests them here @ nordschleife first hand. Documented, approved by M rep.
Obviously even a simple tune can get this car down to under 4s, but that is NOT stock.

And you're forgetting the major weight difference on the s8 - deliberately?I won't even mention the torque trustability.