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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #26  
Old 04-10-2012, 05:38 PM
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fun2drive fun2drive is online now
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Update

I did change my plugs and did use antiseize and dielectric grease and torque wrench. Absolutely no change in anything has happened. I have put well over 8K miles on the new plugs and my mileage is still excellent and have gripes at all. Total mileage is now 50300 miles and this was not hard to do but took a little more time than my E36 M3's.
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  #27  
Old 06-17-2012, 06:47 PM
jburke4689 jburke4689 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
There are two basic types, the silver stuff and the copper colored stuff which contains...copper. Use the silver stuff, Permatex Anti-Seize Lubricant. We don't use the copper based product on steel to aluminum (sparkplugs to the cylinder head) because it is my feeling that some corrosion could occur. I might be wrong on that but I've been happy with the silver stuff for decades.
The copper stuff has its uses but I think I'd keep copper away from steel to aluminum. Red metals may accelerate corrosion between the two.
The Bently manual says to use "copper-based" anti-seize on the spark plugs. It is in section 020-44.
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  #28  
Old 06-18-2012, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jburke4689 View Post
The Bently manual says to use "copper-based" anti-seize on the spark plugs. It is in section 020-44.
Thanks for the information.

I just checked a container of Permatex Anti Seize in the silver color. It clearly says to use it on spark plug threads (and O2 sensor threads) in the instructions.

I also have a container of Versa-Chem Anti Seize in the copper color which says it contains copper on the label, basically saying it does the same as the Permatex product. The only difference I can see is that the copper based product is good to 2000F while the silver colored product is good to 1700F.
I have used the Permatex silver product for decades and have never had a problem removing sparkplugs even after 60K miles in place in aluminum or iron heads. I'm not going to argue with Bentley, but it looks like either product is good for me.
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  #29  
Old 06-18-2012, 09:22 AM
Wihelm G Wihelm G is offline
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Permatex says something to the effect that a "typical application" for copper anti-seize is "spark plugs installed into aluminum heads." It doesn't say use of copper anti-seize is designed for aluminum heads or recommended or better than silver, although it says the silver is the all-purpose general use AS and the copper is "premium" if that's worth anything to you. But it could be for other reasons that AS is not advertised as "recommended" for use on spark plugs, which brings me to my next point.

BMW does not recommend the use of anti-seize on spark plugs. I think what the real story is that since anti-seize is a lubricant, torquing down the plugs per spec will result in over clamping. Which is why some BMW techs use anti-seize but not a torque wrench, i.e., hand tighten to bottom then some fraction of a turn more to crush the washer.

I also think BMW doesn't think anti-seize is necessary to inhibit galvanic corrosion because spark plug threads usually have a protective plating, such as zinc or nickel.

Copper anti-seize has a higher heat tolerance than silver but also a lower flashpoint. If anyone cares. If you're going to use an anti-seize on your plugs, I don't think there is any significant difference between the two (1600 degrees versus 1800 degrees) for normal stock or slightly modded engines. And if you use anti-seize do wipe it on as thinly and evenly as possible.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/TB-...1antisieze.pdf
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  #30  
Old 06-18-2012, 09:46 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wihelm G View Post
Permatex says something to the effect that a "typical application" for copper anti-seize is "spark plugs installed into aluminum heads." It doesn't say use of copper anti-seize is designed for aluminum heads or recommended or better than silver, although it says the silver is the all-purpose general use AS and the copper is "premium" if that's worth anything to you. But it could be for other reasons that AS is not advertised as "recommended" for use on spark plugs, which brings me to my next point.

BMW does not recommend the use of anti-seize on spark plugs. I think what the real story is that since anti-seize is a lubricant, torquing down the plugs per spec will result in over clamping. Which is why some BMW techs use anti-seize but not a torque wrench, i.e., hand tighten to bottom then some fraction of a turn more to crush the washer.

I also think BMW doesn't think anti-seize is necessary to inhibit galvanic corrosion because spark plug threads usually have a protective plating, such as zinc or nickel.

Copper anti-seize has a higher heat tolerance than silver but also a lower flashpoint. If anyone cares. If you're going to use an anti-seize on your plugs, I don't think there is any significant difference between the two (1600 degrees versus 1800 degrees) for normal stock or slightly modded engines. And if you use anti-seize do wipe it on as thinly and evenly as possible.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/TB-...1antisieze.pdf
Hi Wilhelm. In the old days an engine would need a tuneup every year or 15K miles, so new plugs were being installed every year. Now many engines get new plugs every 60K, some at 100K miles!

When we were changing plugs every year they were going into iron heads, now they're almost all aluminum or some exotic alloy. I can tell you from bitter experience that plugs installed without anti-seize, and exposed to salt vapor like we tend to get in the Winter in New England, are quite likely to bond to an aluminum head over the years.

When that happens a tuneup suddenly can run into thousands of dollars because we have to pull the head and have the plugs machined out. Or the head threads come out with the plugs and we have an expensive in-the-car patch job using Threadserts or similar. And that's only if we have direct access to the plug hole, not always the case.

There have been many times when a tech has come to me and said that the plugs weren't budging and it was time to call the customer and lay out the options, up to and including the head removal if the plugs break. I have never needed to call a customer whose plugs were installed using anti-seize.

Your point about backing off on the torque is an excellent thing to remember and well advised for anyone installing their own plugs. You can always make them tighter...
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  #31  
Old 06-18-2012, 11:57 AM
Wihelm G Wihelm G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
I can tell you from bitter experience that plugs installed without anti-seize, and exposed to salt vapor like we tend to get in the Winter in New England, are quite likely to bond to an aluminum head over the years.
And I can tell you from very pleasant experience exposure to harsh winters and salt vapor has never been much of a problem in the semi arid Los Angeles Basin. A far bigger problem, as I recall, was cross threading due to inattentiveness, which no amount of anti seize is going to prevent.

I don't remember anyone in the neighborhood using a torque wrench for plugs-- if we could afford a torque wrench, we could probably afford to take our vehicles to a "real" mechanic and maybe even use new parts. The people in the neighborhood I would watch working on their bikes would tighten their plugs by hand, then turn them some amount more. This was partially due to some folks wanting to to "index" the spark pug, or orient the side electrode a certain way to expose the air fuel mixture to maximum spark. But I also remember using "hand tight plus additional half turn" (more like 1/8 turn on magnesium alloy heads) as sort of a "rule of thumb" that went along with getting a feel for when the washer was just squashed down (neighborhood technical term). Of course these were the same shade tree mechanics who would dial in the right tune on a V-twin by doing a "plug burn".

Anyway, I don't disagree with you on using anti seize on plugs, obviously it's how professionals in the Real World do it all the time, for reasons that make plenty of sense. I was just pointing out how there are contrasting views on the subject and, in particular, that the BMW TIS doesn't mention "Setzen Sie einen Klecks Anti Seize" as part of the spark plug changing protocol.
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  #32  
Old 06-19-2012, 06:15 AM
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I have not used anti-seize on plugs in 20 years and never had a problem.
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  #33  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by David1 View Post
I have not used anti-seize on plugs in 20 years and never had a problem.
Congratulations. Are they in there a hundred thousand miles?
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  #34  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Congratulations. Are they in there a hundred thousand miles?
Yup, even in iron head motors with tapered seat plugs to boot. Any damaged heads I have come across were from over tight plugs or heman cross threading the plug and leaving it for the next guy to wory about.
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Last edited by David1; 06-19-2012 at 08:54 AM.
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  #35  
Old 06-19-2012, 10:24 AM
jburke4689 jburke4689 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Thanks for the information.

I just checked a container of Permatex Anti Seize in the silver color. It clearly says to use it on spark plug threads (and O2 sensor threads) in the instructions.

I also have a container of Versa-Chem Anti Seize in the copper color which says it contains copper on the label, basically saying it does the same as the Permatex product. The only difference I can see is that the copper based product is good to 2000F while the silver colored product is good to 1700F.
I have used the Permatex silver product for decades and have never had a problem removing sparkplugs even after 60K miles in place in aluminum or iron heads. I'm not going to argue with Bentley, but it looks like either product is good for me.
Me too on the silver stuff. I just bought the copper stuff because the manual said so. Probably not necessary but I was also buying the special socket and plugs to do my first plug change. I have 72,000 miles on the car and the dealer replaced the the plugs at about 30K when they put in all new injectors as part of the recall.
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  #36  
Old 06-19-2012, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David1 View Post
Yup, even in iron head motors with tapered seat plugs to boot. Any damaged heads I have come across were from over tight plugs or heman cross threading the plug and leaving it for the next guy to wory about.
We see our share of overtightened plugs that's for sure, for whatever reason we haven't seen as many cross threaded as we once did. That's probably because it's much harder to change plugs than it once was and fewer people do it.

I'm surprised at your luck with plugs not welded to the head, I hope it comes my way too. I have 3 or 4 kits to remove stuck plugs. I even have tools to remove the threaded ends of plugs which break off from the main body of the plug when we reef on the wrench as a last resort do or die, nothing to lose.
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  #37  
Old 06-19-2012, 01:25 PM
Wihelm G Wihelm G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
We see our share of overtightened plugs that's for sure, for whatever reason we haven't seen as many cross threaded as we once did. That's probably because it's much harder to change plugs than it once was and fewer people do it.
Spark plug threads used to cut or machined after casting, resulting in sharp, brittle edges. Modern premium spark plugs designed for aluminum alloy heads usually have rolled and hardened threads, which are said to be smoother and less likely to have tiny pieces break off or allow the plug threads to cut across the grooves in the head. It could be marketing BS to justify $20+ plugs, but it sounds plausible. As does your observation less yahoos may be changing their own plugs cuz it's such a PITA to get to them sometimes and having to have special tools and whatnot. And if that's not enough to discourage most people, getting a bill for diagnosing a misfire because they went crazy and slopped anti-seize all over the electrodes might do the trick.
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  #38  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:19 AM
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The problem cars we had back in the day were the old 80's Oldsmobile/Buick Cutlas/Regal with the 3.8 V6. The 2 rear plugs in those were a bitch and stuck since they were never changed until the car developed a miss. The rear plugs and some of FWD V6 GM cars always had issues with cross threading or removing the plugs when the motor was hot.
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  #39  
Old 06-20-2012, 06:29 AM
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I used the silver anti sieze for my Miata, MDX, Oddysey ... Same tube for perhaps 10 years! Anyway I used a little on my plugs this time around.
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  #40  
Old 08-26-2012, 01:55 PM
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I am about ready to change my plugs and was wondering where you guys got the special plug wrench. One guy mentioned that the one from Sears didn't work so I will avoid that one. Any recommendations are appreciated.
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  #41  
Old 08-27-2012, 01:32 AM
Phil325i Phil325i is offline
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Here you go:

http://www.burgertuning.com/N54_BMW_...t_adapter.html
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  #42  
Old 08-27-2012, 02:42 AM
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Thanks, that is half the price of the one Turner Motorsport sells.
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  #43  
Old 08-27-2012, 05:46 AM
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Just changed my plugs yesterday, first time on this car. I used the Burger tuning socket linked above - works well.

Last edited by andrew b; 08-27-2012 at 05:57 AM.
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  #44  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:34 PM
JagerSchnitzel JagerSchnitzel is offline
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This is an old thread but thought I would post my experience anyways. I just changed the plugs in my '07 335i this weekend.

To answer the original question of this thread: NO, resetting the adaption module after changing spark plugs on N54 engine is NOT required.

I changed my plugs, then started the engine. Engine was misfiring. I disconnected and reconnected all coils and coil connections making sure everything was secure. Misfire went away, however, Service Engine Soon (SES) light was illuminated. SES went out on its own the following day before I could get to my Indy to use his diagnostic tool.

I bought the Koch spark plug tool (approx. $12). It grips the spark plug TIGHT using a scalloped rubber grommet. It was so tight, my 3/8" extension pulled out of the tool each time I tried to pull it off an installed spark plug. I had to use needle nose pliers to retrieve the tool.

I used the copper based antiseaze. The Bently manual recommends it, as well as my local dealer and Indy.

One observation I made was that after extracting the old spark plugs, an accumulation of dark particles were residing on the shoulder (on the head) where the new spark plug washers will be crushed. I can only guess that it was carbon build up that flaked off the old spark plugs as I removed them. I made an adapter using two drink straws and tape attached to my shop-vac to surgically remove the particles before installing the new plugs.
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  #45  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:51 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerSchnitzel View Post
This is an old thread but thought I would post my experience anyways. I just changed the plugs in my '07 335i this weekend.

To answer the original question of this thread: NO, resetting the adaption module after changing spark plugs on N54 engine is NOT required.

Uh-oh....that it needs a reset goes without saying, JagerSchnitzel. Everyone knows an engine part R&R with function requires a reset and many must be registered.

You did purchase BMW approved plugs with the ECU registration serial numbers so each cylinder is synched to the plug's calibration?

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Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 04-24-2013 at 07:59 PM.
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  #46  
Old 04-24-2013, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Uh-oh....that it needs a reset goes without saying, JagerSchnitzel. Everyone knows an engine part R&R with function requires a reset and many must be registered.

You did purchase BMW approved plugs with the ECU registration serial numbers so each cylinder is synched to the plug's calibration?

Attachment 373009
Cal, the poster may not realize your sense of humor. Of course, those who know you know better than to take you seriously, but Schnitzel could be looking for those serial numbers as we speak.
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  #47  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Cal, the poster may not realize your sense of humor. Of course, those who know you know better than to take you seriously, but Schnitzel could be looking for those serial numbers as we speak.

You're right, DSX. Schnitz, please stop looking! It is an urban myth that BMW plugs have serial numbers. Jury out on whether they need to be registered.
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  #48  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:39 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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so are these spark plugs Iridium type? shouldnt they last like 100K miles?
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  #49  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:57 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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BMW recommends 335i plugs be changed at 45Kmiles. Many of us have found that to be good advice. A few posters have reported no malfunctions at up to 60K, but some even sooner than 40. I did mine at around 36K miles because I had nothing else to do one afternoon.

Last edited by DSXMachina; 04-25-2013 at 06:41 AM. Reason: Fixed per GarySL
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  #50  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
BMW recommends 335i plugs be changed at 45Kmiles...
Fixed
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