Ride Quality - SAP vs. MSP

Hi,

Can anyone compare / describe the ride quality between a 2013 X3 35i with the Sport Activity Package vs. the M Sport Package? I currently have a 2006 X3 with the M Sport Package and the ride is pretty “firm” if not “jarring” at times….It handles great though. None of the dealers around me have on with a M Sport Package that I can test out.

THANKS.

Exactly the same. if both have DHP then exactly the same there.

Originally Posted by Heinekens

Hi,

Can anyone compare / describe the ride quality between a 2013 X3 35i with the Sport Activity Package vs. the M Sport Package? I currently have a 2006 X3 with the M Sport Package and the ride is pretty “firm” if not “jarring” at times….It handles great though. None of the dealers around me have on with a M Sport Package that I can test out.

THANKS.

We formerly had a 2006 X3 without the sport package but with the optional 18" wheels. We replaced that last year with a new 2011 X3 35i. As of last Spring when we were ordering our new X3, all the US model X3 35i's had the same suspension unless you separately ordered the optional dynamic dampers, which we have. They were not included with the SAV or MSport packages. Haven't kept up with how that option is packaged today.

In terms of ride quality, our new X3 is light years ahead of our 2006. Even when we put the dynamic dampers in the stiffer sport setting, the new vehicle has an excellent ride quality in my opinion, nothing like the 2006. It has a different driving feel, less direct / less stiff, but even so I think our new X3 handles better than our 2006.

Thanks
Bruce

Originally Posted by cadman50

Exactly the same. if both have DHP then exactly the same there.

Hmm, not sure this is correct -- M-Sport only comes with the standard suspension ("Sport Suspension delete"). I have M-Sport and the ride is okay, but without DHP it can feel a bit soft.

Originally Posted by nonagon

Hmm, not sure this is correct -- M-Sport only comes with the standard suspension ("Sport Suspension delete"). I have M-Sport and the ride is okay, but without DHP it can feel a bit soft.

Rides are equal for both Msport and SAP optioned X3's without DHP
and
Rides are equal for both Msport and SAP optioned X3's with DHP.
AFAIK. Msport seems mostly cosmetic except you do get performance control if you get Msport without DHP but this is not suspension related. if you get DHP, performance control is included.

I have a 2013 X3 Msport w/ DHP. if you like the Msport cosmetics than get it but just know the Msport configuration has almost zero to do with ride and handling although Msport wheels and tires do make a difference to a degree.

So what it than comes down to is whether you want the latest and greatest suspension technology or not. If you want it all than you need to option in DHP which will always be active and working to control suspension dynamics across the full gamut of bumps, g-forces etc. I drove X's with and without and found DHP yielded what I'd describe as a more high performance feel in terms of how the suspension adjusts to hold a line thru sweeping semi bumpy turns. DHP does not = stiff ride.

Originally Posted by Jen4BMW

I have a 2013 X3 Msport w/ DHP. if you like the Msport cosmetics than get it but just know the Msport configuration has almost zero to do with ride and handling although Msport wheels and tires do make a difference to a degree.

So what it than comes down to is whether you want the latest and greatest suspension technology or not. If you want it all than you need to option in DHP which will always be active and working to control suspension dynamics across the full gamut of bumps, g-forces etc. I drove X's with and without and found DHP yielded what I'd describe as a more high performance feel in terms of how the suspension adjusts to hold a line thru sweeping semi bumpy turns. DHP does not = stiff ride.

Unless they changed it for model year 2013 (mine's a 2012), US-bound X3 M-Sports do not come with sport suspension, but SAP models do. In other words, the suspension would be firmer by default on SAP vs M-Sport. Note, I also have DHP and think it is a must-have because in Normal mode the ride is just a bit soft for my taste at times.

Not this again...

In NA there are two suspension setups, standard and dynamic handling / comfort. That's it.

EU gets a sport suspension.

Doh! I don't want to re-hash the whole DHP thingy again, but I like to thank all for their input.

I've read through many of the threads regarding DHP and it’s been informative. I have to point out that this will be a US Spec’d X3 and it will NOT be equipped with DHP, only M-Sport. The car is for the CEO and she would prefer a “less aggressive” ride (when compared with our 06 X3).

From what I gather, the suspension will be the same for SAP & MSP models said for the wheels styles. I’m not sure if the latter will make that much of a difference because even the tire sizes appear to be the same (19x8.5, 245/45 19). Sound about right?

Please forgive my misinformation regarding US-bound SAP having sport suspension. Apparently I'm not missing out on a firmer ride.

@ Heinekens,

The standard suspension will be more compliant than the '06 X3 but the suspension will not be 'active'. The M-sport will offer the 'performance control' which is basically the cheap man's vectoring control using the rear breaks.

Found this thread from last year: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=564594
Bottom line is that they don't even put Sport Suspension on them in the US because of our shoddy roads!?, and the M Sport Pkg would normally include that, but it's deleted for all cars made for delivery here. The only way to get a true sport-like suspension is to get the DHP.

The SAP does not have a sport suspension-it only has a sport transmission and the sport seats and steering wheel with shift paddles. It's a Sport Activity Package with features to make it feel more sport-like, but not a Sport Performance Package like they used to do on other models that installs a sport suspension.

The M-Sport package adds Dynamic Damper Control and Performance Control (i.e. the ability to set the driving mode from Comfort to Sport to Sport+). Adding Dynamic Handling on top of that further adds only Variable Sport Steering (the steering gets tighter in sport modes) to the M-sport package.

If you add DHP to the SAP you are adding Dynamic Damper Control, Performance Control and Variable Steering altogether.

Essentially what you are paying an extra $1100 or so dollars for by getting the M-Sport with DHP is the different front end body style vs. what the price would be with the SAP with DHP. Same cars as far as performance goes, different front ends and trim colors.

Without the DHP on the SAP you are just getting standard performance and suspension but with sport transmission, sport seats and paddle shifters.

Originally Posted by Wabbajack

The M-Sport package adds Dynamic Damper Control and Performance Control (i.e. the ability to set the driving mode from Comfort to Sport to Sport+). Adding Dynamic Handling on top of that further adds only Variable Sport Steering (the steering gets tighter in sport modes) to the M-sport package.

I do not believe this is accurate, at least for US cars. M-sport alone will NOT automatically add Dynamic Dampers (i.e., dynamically adjustable dampers). Only adding the Dynamic Handling Package ("DHP") -- which btw is highly recommended -- will add the dynamic dampers, which have the protruding cylinder from the strut shown in the picture in this post http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=14

I have not seen proof (by pics, etc) in this forum or others of a US car that has M-sport alone (without DHP) that has dynamic dampers....

*Sigh* I check my facts before I post. I wish others would do the same before they refute them.

From the BMWUSA site Specifations and Packages (and also my sticker)
*******> ********>*******>********>

M Sport Package

$3,000

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Sport Suspension delete

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Dynamic Damper Control

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

High-gloss Roof Rails

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Roof rails in Aluminum Satin

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

19" M light alloy double spoke wheels - style 369M with all-season run-flat tire

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

M Sports leather steering wheel with paddle shifters

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Performance Control

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Brushed Aluminum trim

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Fineline Sienna wood trim

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Fineline Wave Wood Trim

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Sport seats

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Aerodynamic kit

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Anthracite headliner

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Alpine White

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Black Sapphire Metallic

$550

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Deep Sea Blue Metallic

$550

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Space Gray Metallic

$550

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Titanium Silver Metallic

$550

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Vermilion Red Metallic

$550

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Carbon Black Metallic

$550

*******> ********>*******>********>

•

Sport automatic transmission with shift paddles

*******>********>*******>********>

•	Shadowline exterior trim

I'm sorry Wabba, but you are incorrect. nothing personal. please go to the BMW USA website and do a build. check the M-sport package. you will see that the box "sports suspension delete" is checked by default. now check the box that says "dynamic damper control" under the M-sport package section. you will see that when you do so, the stand alone package named "dynamic handling package" is automatically checked. in other words, you cannot get "dynamic dampers" (shown in the M-sport package section) without getting the stand alone "dynamic handling package." and this is true for both 28i and 35i models.

I am 99.9999% confident that I am correct.

:cheers:

Nope. I am looking at my Vehicle Inquiry Report (i.e. Order) and it is laid out just like the specs on the site that I pasted above showing DHP only adds Variable Steering with M-Sport because M-Sport already has Damper and Performance Control as separate line items. The BYO is for consumers, the VIR is for the dealer and the factory. Which do you think is more likely to be accurate?

I ain't gonna comment any further on US spec'd cars.

In CANADA ya have to have to PAY for the dynamic comfort package to get the active suspension. And here, the dynamic comfort package is only available on the 35i models, as is the M-Sport package.

Originally Posted by Wabbajack

Nope. I am looking at my Vehicle Inquiry Report (i.e. Order) and it is laid out just like the specs on the site that I pasted above showing DHP only adds Variable Steering with M-Sport because M-Sport already has Damper and Performance Control as separate line items. The BYO is for consumers, the VIR is for the dealer and the factory. Which do you think is more likely to be accurate?

M-sport ALONE (big difference) does not add dynamic dampers. period. this point is 100% correct and cannot be disputed. this has been beaten to death on many many threads here and in the other forum. you seem to disagree with this basic point. I rather make sure others here get correct information. like I said, nothing personal.

do not take my word for it. i will shut up and eat my words if you can find either one of the following: 1) any post here or elsewhere with proof (by pic of the actual dynamic damper cylinders in the struts, etc.) of anyone that has a US car with M sport ONLY (no DHP optioned) that also has dynamic dampers installed; or 2) slightly different, anyone in the US with a car that has dynamic dampers installed WITHOUT having optioned the DHP package.

this leads to only one conclusion and bottom line: the ONLY way in the US (and apparently canada per lbjgh) to get dynamic dampers (irrespective of any other packages) is to purchase the $1,400 dynamic handling package.

re your order, had you not ordered the DHP package, your car would have come with M-sport (which included performace control switch) but without the adjustable dynamic dampers.

Wabbajack your a wealth of info so I hate to say it but Tango is correct here. DHP is an option you pay for with any configuration including the Msport in the US. If you have DHP on your X3 I guarantee you that you paid for it.

DHP gives you on the fly dampeners that like Tango states is more performance oriented. The snowmobile industry also puts electro dampeners on many of their higher performance sleds. They make a big difference but you gotta pay to play because the the technology adds cost, complexity and warranty factors.

BMW would be wise to tweak their online configurator because the whole DHP/sport suspension delete issue has been beat to death in every forum.

I love how you guys will believe what a bunch of consumers say on an online forum and completely ignore the FACTS which are the SPECS directly pasted from the BMW Website, that also identically match my VIR.

Wabba, you can believe what you want, but what you state are not "FACTS." it's an argument based on a misunderstanding of the facts.

for the rest of the folks here, the facts are what they are. DHP is the only way in the US to get dynamic dampers. BMW's own website (which you cite and rely on to argue your point, albeit incorrectly) shows that the only way that the dynamic dampers are added is if you click on the dynamic handling package (or conversely, if you click on "dynamic dampers" it will automatically add the "dynamic handling package").

I previously encouraged you to go to BMW USA website and build a car. Please do this as if you do, it will answer your questions and show you that I'm correct (along with others who have chimed in): "check the M-sport package. you will see that the box "sports suspension delete" is checked by default. now check the box that says "dynamic damper control" under the M-sport package section. you will see that when you do so, the stand alone package named "dynamic handling package" is automatically checked. in other words, you cannot get "dynamic dampers" (shown in the M-sport package section) without getting the stand alone "dynamic handling package."" please do this and then come back and report what happens.

What the BMW website does re dynamic dampers during a build are FACTS. also FACTS are that: 1) there is no car built for the US market that has dynamic dampers WITHOUT speccing out the DHP package; and 2) there are no M-sport ONLY cars (with no DHP package) that have dynamic dampers.

Originally Posted by Wabbajack

I love how you guys will believe what a bunch of consumers say on an online forum and completely ignore the FACTS which are the SPECS directly pasted from the BMW Website, that also identically match my VIR.

I am sorry, but you are wrong. Following your logic, i.e. following exactly what the VIR states, would mean you are receiving two sets of roof rails (high-gloss and aluminum satin) and three sets of interior trims (brushed aluminum, fineline wave, and fineline Sienna).

It looks as though the confusion is result of BMW listing optional items under each package, even though they were not ordered. You obviously can only order one style of roof rail and one type of interior trim, yet all options are listed.

The only way to get DDC is to select the dynamic handling package.


Thanks,
dr