X5 35d vs. Porsche Cayenne Diesel

Originally Posted by solstice

Dang, those pictures of the GTS in the review is mouth watering and the review hits home in a bad way "most engaging" just what I love. We are pretty much set on a Cayenne V6 as our do it all, go everywhere ( well not everywhere but light off-road ) in any weather and most important dependable SUV with the style and luxury my wife deserves but after seeing and reading that I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't go for the GTS. Hmmm we are getting further and further away from the 4-Runner I voted for... I need to forget I saw that review, quickly.

Do it, they're supposed to be on lots soon too

Go set up an account and lurk at Rennlist. There are people getting deliveries of the Cayenne Diesel and loving it and the pricing isn't as awful as expected (meaning one guy got 5% off of "MSRP" ) :rockon:

Originally Posted by solstice

Dang, those pictures of the GTS in the review is mouth watering and the review hits home in a bad way "most engaging" just what I love. We are pretty much set on a Cayenne V6 as our do it all, go everywhere ( well not everywhere but light off-road ) in any weather and most important dependable SUV with the style and luxury my wife deserves but after seeing and reading that I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't go for the GTS. Hmmm we are getting further and further away from the 4-Runner I voted for... I need to forget I saw that review, quickly.

Wait for my Cayenne Diesel review (next week). Most likely better than the V6, and the same price.

- Mike

Porsche Cayenne seems to be the best in the biz in terms of the 5 door Crossover built for driving, you are paying MSRP (or close to MSRP) for the best auto engineering can deliver. That said, the Cayenne doesn't contend with Audi, VW, BMW, MB, or any other luxury crossover; its in a class of its own. Yes Maybe the X5M, ML63, and Audi Q7 V12 TDI seem like alternatives, but really cant offer what Porsche offers; pure driving bliss from a huge automotive racing database and components that are really tried and tested from being fitted to their other product lines.

In my opinion this is how i see it

BMW X5 (current generation isn't really a contender with the new Cayenne, the F15s will be on equal playing fields, but still carry the motto that the E70 has)= Built for driving your young to middle aged family around town, but with added satisfaction of knowing that when the road gets curvy, the car will be able to cope with it well.

Cayenne= Car that was designed for high speed and high cornering abilities. In terms of family friendliness, who cares, as long as the driver has a huge grin from cheek to cheek.

Thus, the idea that the Cayenne is in a class of its own, comes into the picture.

I drove the Cayenne Diesel again today and can not believe how smoothly it handles. The X5 handles well too, but I think the Cayenne is better. I was going 80 mph and it did not even feel that fast. This Cayenne had the blind spot system and that was definitely a useful feature.

The interior of the X5 seems bigger, but both SUV's seems small compared to our Merc GL350 that we would be trading in.

I am just not sure if the Cayenne is worth $10k-$12k more that the X5 we were considering.

This issue has been debated multiple times
Prior to my 550 xi M/ED/ i extensively test drove PC and PCS
My conclusion was that PCS with air suspension and TVS/ torque-vectoring system/ was THE BEST SUV i ever drove, X6 5.0 was 2nd and x5 5.0 w adaptive drive and M sport was 3 rd
it will be very interesting to see 2014 F15 and compare w PC
In category PC/V6/ vs X5 3.5 i personally would prefer BMW
My partner has 2012 X5M and i drove it for a day- this is ABSOLUTE BEAST i cant even imagine how PC Turbo will perform!!!!!!
Just my 2c

Originally Posted by DBV

I think so - maybe $12k at the most, but the one I looked at had some options that were not in the X5 I was looking at. For example, blind spot - which worked great!

I drove one last week that had the blind spot option on it as well. I really liked how Porsche does the lights for this v. other brand vehicles I have driven. The one I drove I think was priced around $72k, it had a number of options on it but did not have their suspension option. On their website they had some other diesels listed almost $10k less but they were not on the lot to actually look at. The only way I could get him off MSRP is if I did an ED on one and then I could get $2.9k off. He gave his usual spill about how Porsche is a low volume manufacturer and how buying a Porsche is getting into a dream and so on, a sales pitch that probably works great when looking at some of their other models.

I was not overly impressed with the engines performance in it but to each their own. It did seem to handle very well but I have not driven any other "competing" SUVs to compare that too. I do know cruising down the freeway around 100mph it felt nothing like how I recall my much older previous SUVs handling at such speeds.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

I was not overly impressed with the engines performance in it but to each their own.

What? The super-SUV didnt have MONSTER TORQUE?

Originally Posted by serge1

What? The super-SUV didnt have MONSTER TORQUE?

Too funny ... I do not like how it gets to that torque.

I just got back from Alaska, where I drove a US-spec Cayenne Diesel all over the place for two days. More importantly, I drove my '12 X5 xDrive35d to the airport so it was a back-to-back driving experience!

In a nutshell:

BMW is quicker
BMW is faster
BMW is quieter on the road
BMW is less expensive
BMW is roomier
BMW has a better AWD system

Porsche is more agile
Porsche is safer
Porsche is more fuel efficient
Porsche has a longer range
Porsche doesn't sound like a diesel

While I've driven the Euro-spec Cayenne Diesel extensively in Germany, the cars are actually quite different (both engine and transmission tuning). I immediately noticed the difference.

I've got to write the damn story, so I don't have time for a detailed post (ask questions).

- Mike

How much more fuel efficient was it for you over the X5d?

Originally Posted by Snipe656

How much more fuel efficient was it for you over the X5d?

Touareg can easily pass 30 mpg on the highway (X5d can't really do that) and the Cayenne is even lighter, so I'm expecting low to mid 30s?

Even the new Mercedes ML BT routinely can hit low 30s, but who wants an ML?

Mike, what are the biggest differences between the EU spec and US spec Cayenne TDIs? I understand that the US one makes slightly less power due to the AdBlue system, but is it really that much different?

I've driven the T3 Touareg TDI extensively, so I expect it to feel very similar, in terms of power delivery, etc.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

How much more fuel efficient was it for you over the X5d?

EPA is 19/26 on the BMW, while it is 19/29 on the Porsche. In real-world, I got 28 mpg in the X5 during a recent roadtrip, and drivers in Alaska were reporting 32 mpg in the Cayenne (I was driving hard, and off-road, so I averaged 27.8 during the whole day).

- Mike

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Touareg can easily pass 30 mpg on the highway (X5d can't really do that) and the Cayenne is even lighter, so I'm expecting low to mid 30s?

Even the new Mercedes ML BT routinely can hit low 30s, but who wants an ML?

Guess I should have hit the quote earlier. I meant how much more efficient was it for Emission in his real world use of the two vehicles since he stated the Porsche was more efficient.

I had actually planned to go and drive the M350 Bluetec and X5d this week but looking like I will have to put that off another week or so. They all cost roughly the same in how I'd buy each one and ignoring any discounts so figured I'd be best to try all three. Undecided on if I will look at the Tourag and not interested in the Q7.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Mike, what are the biggest differences between the EU spec and US spec Cayenne TDIs? I understand that the US one makes slightly less power due to the AdBlue system, but is it really that much different?

I've driven the T3 Touareg TDI extensively, so I expect it to feel very similar, in terms of power delivery, etc.

The Euro-spec model has the Gen-I engine, while the US-spec model is running the new Gen-II 3.0-liter turbodiesel. The Euro model was geared to pull hard up to nearly 150 mph, but more lethargic around town. The US-spec model was quick around town (thanks to the 8AT), but much slower at speed. The X5 feels significantly more powerful on the highway... and above 40 mph.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

The Euro-spec model has the Gen-I engine, while the US-spec model is running the new Gen-II 3.0-liter turbodiesel. The Euro model was geared to pull hard up to nearly 150 mph, but more lethargic around town. The US-spec model was quick around town (thanks to the 8AT), but much slower at speed. The X5 feels significantly more powerful on the highway... and above 40 mph.

- Mike

Honestly, this is really disappointing to hear. I was at the forefront of the Cayenne TDI "jump-ship" committee, but after reading this, I really need to take one out and check it out. ( No one has it yet in my area ) I would have expected it to be at least just as fast because it is significantly lighter, but is only down about 25 hp.

I sometimes think that the X5d is loud on the highway, I can't believe the more expensive Porsche is louder.

BMW better not screw up the next X5d, so I'm not forced to spend $$$ on this.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Honestly, this is really disappointing to hear. I was at the forefront of the Cayenne TDI "jump-ship" committee, but after reading this, I really need to take one out and check it out. ( No one has it yet in my area ) I would have expected it to be at least just as fast because it is significantly lighter, but is only down about 25 hp.

I sometimes think that the X5d is loud on the highway, I can't believe the more expensive Porsche is louder.

BMW better not screw up the next X5d, so I'm not forced to spend $$$ on this.

I was not "blown away" with the Cayenne Diesel.

Yes, it is more fuel efficient than the X5, and it handles better... gearing and lightness. Porsche has the S, GTS, Turbo, etc... for those who want speed. The Cayenne Diesel (and Hybrid) are tuned for efficiency... Porsche clearly said so. Also, it uses the less complicated VW all-wheel drive system (50:50 split), not the more expensive Porsche all-wheel drive (variable from 100:0 to 0:100).

FYI - My test car was wearing HUGE wheels/tires, and they contributed significantly to the cabin noise on the Alaskan highways.

- Mike

One picture... then I have to write the story!

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

I was not "blown away" with the Cayenne Diesel.

Yes, it is more fuel efficient than the X5, and it handles better... gearing and lightness. Porsche has the S, GTS, Turbo, etc... for those who want speed. The Cayenne Diesel (and Hybrid) are tuned for efficiency... Porsche clearly said so. Also, it uses the less complicated VW all-wheel drive system (50:50 split), not the more expensive Porsche all-wheel drive (variable from 100:0 to 0:100).

- Mike

So it has a neutered AWD system, compared to the rest of the Cayenne lineup? Do the base V6, S, Hybrid, etc all have the more advanced one?

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

So it has a neutered AWD system, compared to the rest of the Cayenne lineup? Do the base V6, S, Hybrid, etc all have the more advanced one?

The Hybrid and Diesel share the VW-sourced AWD, while all of the other models are fitted with the more advanced system — a decision based on its owner's driving style. The diesel I was driving also had a locking center diff (optional?)... used when I nearly got stuck in the riverbed silt on Michelin high-performance tires!

- Mike

Hey, looking out my front window... Volkswagen just dropped at '13 Touareg Hybrid in my driveway for a week (shares the powertrain with the Cayenne Hybrid)! This should be interesting.

- Mike

Looking forward to the review

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Honestly, this is really disappointing to hear. I was at the forefront of the Cayenne TDI "jump-ship" committee, but after reading this, I really need to take one out and check it out. ( No one has it yet in my area ) I would have expected it to be at least just as fast because it is significantly lighter, but is only down about 25 hp.

I sometimes think that the X5d is loud on the highway, I can't believe the more expensive Porsche is louder..

The one I drove was not loud or even remotely loud on the freeway. I was cruising routinely at 80-100 in the thing and it was extremely quiet actually. I do not recall what wheels it had on it, might very likely been the base ones. I personally think it is not just the 25 hp less that makes it "slower" but how the power comes on and how much of it stays there. Look at the curves Porsche has posted and go dig it up for the BMW and would show what I am trying to say. Seems like comparing hp to hp between the two is not saying much unless perhaps you only drive one way and that way is at WOT.

Originally Posted by Emission

I was not "blown away" with the Cayenne Diesel.

Me either, I was rather disappointed. I drove it figuring it was going to surprise me like all other Porsches I have driven but it just did not at all. Felt like it needed some more power overall. I have not fully dismissed one as an option but I went into it figuring I'd leave it with it being the only option.

Originally Posted by Emission

In a nutshell:

BMW is quicker

Did you do the 0-60 and 1/4 mile tests on the cayenne diesel?
All the numbers outthere are guestimates, I was hoping to get a real world figure from your review.