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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #126  
Old 08-30-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
The one I drove was not loud or even remotely loud on the freeway. I was cruising routinely at 80-100 in the thing and it was extremely quiet actually. I do not recall what wheels it had on it, might very likely been the base ones. I personally think it is not just the 25 hp less that makes it "slower" but how the power comes on and how much of it stays there. Look at the curves Porsche has posted and go dig it up for the BMW and would show what I am trying to say. Seems like comparing hp to hp between the two is not saying much unless perhaps you only drive one way and that way is at WOT.



Me either, I was rather disappointed. I drove it figuring it was going to surprise me like all other Porsches I have driven but it just did not at all. Felt like it needed some more power overall. I have not fully dismissed one as an option but I went into it figuring I'd leave it with it being the only option.
I am not going to make a big deal about the cabin noise in my story... again, much of it has to do with the wheel/tire package and Alaskan roads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serge1 View Post
Did you do the 0-60 and 1/4 mile tests on the cayenne diesel?
All the numbers outthere are guestimates, I was hoping to get a real world figure from your review.
We don't test numbers. Porsche quotes 7.2 seconds to 60 mph and a top speed of 135 mph. They tend to be a bit conservative. The Cayenne flew off the line, but felt slower at speed.

Enemies in the garage (pic).

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  #127  
Old 08-30-2012, 10:50 AM
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I am not sure about PC, but AUDI in Europe offers e.g. 3.0 TDI 245PS and 3.0 TDI clean diesel 245PS. From the practical / financial perspective, I do not think there are a lot of differences between the two engines (apart from adblue system). I also think that the same engine 3.0 TDI clean diesel will be available in AUDI in the US.

Is PC diesel (EURO or US spec) different from AUDI 3.0 TDI / 3.0 TDI clean diesel? I do not think so, but will be glad to hear this from knowledgeable person. I was hoping that AUDI will bring A6 version again to the US. Then I would buy diesel version. Probably won’t happen.

Could somebody confirm whether PC diesel is single turbo? I think it is and it explains observations of test drivers that X5d is faster, etc.
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  #128  
Old 08-30-2012, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
I am not sure about PC, but AUDI in Europe offers e.g. 3.0 TDI 245PS and 3.0 TDI clean diesel 245PS. From the practical / financial perspective, I do not think there are a lot of differences between the two engines (apart from adblue system). I also think that the same engine 3.0 TDI clean diesel will be available in AUDI in the US.

Is PC diesel (EURO or US spec) different from AUDI 3.0 TDI / 3.0 TDI clean diesel? I do not think so, but will be glad to hear this from knowledgeable person. I was hoping that AUDI will bring A6 version again to the US. Then I would buy diesel version. Probably won’t happen.

Could somebody confirm whether PC diesel is single turbo? I think it is and it explains observations of test drivers that X5d is faster, etc.
Porsche uses a single variable-vane turbo 3.0-liter V6. The engine is Gen II, in its first application. Both VW and Audi will get it for the 2013 model year — Porsche gets a head start. Basically, it is cleaner burning and more efficient. No additional power.

- Mike
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  #129  
Old 08-30-2012, 10:57 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
Could somebody confirm whether PC diesel is single turbo? I think it is and it explains observations of test drivers that X5d is faster, etc.
Porsche's website refers to a "turbocharger" in multiple places for this diesel SUV. Such as:

Quote:
The Cayenne Diesel is powered by a 3.0-liter V6 turbo-diesel engine with a common-rail injection system. Its turbocharger features Variable Turbine Geometry (VTG). The incoming exhaust gases drive a set of electronically variable turbine blades whose angle is continuously adjusted to ensure optimum performance under all engine loads. This results in an output of 240 hp and maximum torque of 406 lb.-ft..
Or and this is from clicking on their link titled "Variable vane geometry turbocharger"

Quote:
The turbocharger in the Cayenne Diesel features Variable Turbine Geometry (VTG). The gasoline-flow from the engine is channelled onto the turbines via electronically adjustable guide vanes. By changing the vane angle, the system can replicate the geometry in all types of turbo, large or small, and thus achieve the optimum gasoline-flow characteristics. As a result, even at low engine rpms, the turbine speed is maximized. For a significant increase in boost pressure, excellent cylinder charging plus greater power and torque.
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  #130  
Old 08-30-2012, 11:00 AM
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Right from my press material:

"The new-for-2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel’s powerful, yet fuel-efficient 3.0-liter V6
turbo diesel engine delivers 240-hp and 406 lb.-ft. of torque, available from as low as
1,750 rpm. That massive twisting force results in a strong 0-60 mph acceleration of
just 7.2 seconds and a top track speed of 135 mph. Cayenne Diesel's performance is complemented by best in class fuel economy rating of 19-mpg city / 29-mpg highway
/ 23-mpg combined on its U.S. EPA label. The new Cayenne Diesel will be priced
from $55,750 plus a $975 destination charge.
In addition to power and economy, the Cayenne Diesel can travel up to 740 miles on
a single tank of fuel, is built to meet strict U.S. Tier 2 Bin 5 emission standards, and
includes selective catalytic reduction (SCR) technology. The SCR system is
comprised of an AdBlue® tank located in the car’s spare-wheel well, a heating system
for the tank and the lines which carry the AdBlue, an injection valve for AdBlue fluid
and a selective catalytic reduction converter which aid in the reduction of NOx
(oxides of nitrogen) emissions.
Highlights of the 3.0-liter V6 diesel engine in the Cayenne Diesel include highpressure
common rail fuel injection and a variable vane geometry turbocharger,
which give the engine improved response to driver inputs and enhanced fuel
economy when compared to more conventional diesel engine technologies. In
addition, the engine block is constructed from compacted graphite iron (CGI), which
has many of the strength properties of a conventional iron block but with a significant
reduction in mass, approximately 55 lbs. (25 kilograms).
The Cayenne Diesel is mated to an 8-speed Tiptronic S transmission, without the
Auto Stop/Start function available on other Cayenne variants. As with the Cayenne S
Hybrid, the Cayenne Diesel includes Porsche Traction Management (PTM), which
features permanent all- wheel drive.
Cayenne Diesel comes standard with a mechanical safeguard in the fuel tank filler
neck with a special locking mechanism that may only be opened by the larger
diameter diesel fuel pump nozzle, ensuring only the correct diesel fuel is added
during refueling."
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  #131  
Old 08-30-2012, 11:03 AM
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3.0 TDI clean diesel 245PS is available right now in Audi. I am not sure whether it is 2013 model. Maybe PC EURO spec drives on old diesel, but Audi rather not
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  #132  
Old 08-30-2012, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
3.0 TDI clean diesel 245PS is available right now in Audi. I am not sure whether it is 2013 model. Maybe PC EURO spec drives on old diesel, but Audi rather not
Not directly accusing Porsche/VW/Audi of confusing things... but it sure is confusing.

- Mike
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  #133  
Old 08-30-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
Porsche's website refers to a "turbocharger" in multiple places for this diesel SUV. Such as:



Or and this is from clicking on their link titled "Variable vane geometry turbocharger"
I appreciate your response. I am referring to two posts from this forum where it was said that it is twin turbo engine. In one case the nickname of the person who posted the information suggested that he should know
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  #134  
Old 08-30-2012, 11:16 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
I appreciate your response. I am referring to two posts from this forum where it was said that it is twin turbo engine. In one case the nickname of the person who posted the information suggested that he should know
I understand and I figured since I went through the trouble of clarifying it for myself after I was told by the Porsche dealership "two turbos" that I would share my findings that are sourced from the manufacturer itself. Figured those findings without a doubt should answer the question once and for all. But then again sometimes the Internet tells lies. Such as look at the specs page on Audi's website for the 3.0 TDI and it says in a paragraph it is a 225hp motor and then in the chart right below that it shows it is a 240hp motor.

BTW what does 245PS mean? I first read that and thought 245hp but that was just my mind playing tricks on me.
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  #135  
Old 08-30-2012, 11:24 AM
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PS = Pferdestärke (German), commonly used in Europe

245PS is more less 241HP
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  #136  
Old 08-30-2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
I understand and I figured since I went through the trouble of clarifying it for myself after I was told by the Porsche dealership "two turbos" that I would share my findings that are sourced from the manufacturer itself. Figured those findings without a doubt should answer the question once and for all. But then again sometimes the Internet tells lies. Such as look at the specs page on Audi's website for the 3.0 TDI and it says in a paragraph it is a 225hp motor and then in the chart right below that it shows it is a 240hp motor.

BTW what does 245PS mean? I first read that and thought 245hp but that was just my mind playing tricks on me.
BHP, HP, kW and PS are all ways of measuring engine power around the globe. Slightly different results, so formulas are used to equate each.

2013 US/Canada Cayenne Diesel = 176 kW/240 bhp

- Mike
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  #137  
Old 08-30-2012, 11:29 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
PS = Pferdestärke (German), commonly used in Europe

245PS is more less 241HP
Thanks, then makes perfect sense to me to use in reference to US spec cars from Europe. But I am strange and have all my t-stats on C instead of F.
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  #138  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:09 PM
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The Hybrid and Diesel share the VW-sourced AWD, while all of the other models are fitted with the more advanced system — a decision based on its owner's driving style. The diesel I was driving also had a locking center diff (optional?)... used when I nearly got stuck in the riverbed silt on Michelin high-performance tires!

- Mike
That seems pretty dumb IMO.


Does the Touareg do the same thing? Base VR6 model (same as PC) have a diff't AWD system than the TDI?
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  #139  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:11 PM
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That seems pretty dumb IMO.


Does the Touareg do the same thing? Base VR6 model (same as PC) have a diff't AWD system than the TDI?
Dumb? Maybe. But, who really cares besides us?

Dunno. I bet all Touareg models share the identical AWD system (none get the sophisticated Porsche unit). I will need to ask.

- Mike
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I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

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Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
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  #140  
Old 08-30-2012, 04:23 PM
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thank you very much i am too was very anxious about PC diesel,but looks like no rush wwith that and i can peacefully waite for 2014 X5
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  #141  
Old 08-30-2012, 05:35 PM
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PC Diesel

I plan to buy a 2014 X5 when they are available to order. In the mean time order a 2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel with minimal options say $55750...plus conv. Pkg $5640. Order for $500. over invoice wait 3 months .... Pay $56154. sell it for $ $55000. as soon as you can order a 2014 X5... Enjoy trying a Porch for 11 months for only $1154.00....Simple ,and it can be done... License it in Montana or Oregon,no sales tax...... I am sure the Porsche Cayenne Diesel will be scarce...
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  #142  
Old 08-30-2012, 05:37 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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I plan to buy a 2014 X5 when they are available to order. In the mean time order a 2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel with minimal options say $55750...plus conv. Pkg $5640. Order for $500. over invoice wait 3 months .... Pay $56154. sell it for $ $55000. as soon as you can order a 2014 X5... Enjoy trying a Porch for 11 months for only $1154.00....Simple ,and it can be done... License it in Montana or Oregon,no sales tax...... I am sure the Porsche Cayenne Diesel will be scarce...
In just the two Porsche dealerships I looked at here in town they have had at least 8 diesels already. I am not sure if it will be all that scarce or not. I wish I could get one of them to let me order any of their cars $500 over invoice but I am just not that good apparently because I can't get them to budge every time I have tried on something.
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Last edited by Snipe656; 08-30-2012 at 05:47 PM. Reason: engrish
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  #143  
Old 08-30-2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
In just the two Porsche dealerships I looked at here in town they have had at least 8 diesels already. I am not sure if it will be all that scarce or not. I wish I could get one of them to let me order any of their cars over invoice but I am just not that good apparently because I can't get them to budge every time I have tried on something.
It looks like Porsche is trying to push the diesel as a volume model. Local dealer here in MA just got two on their lot and has a couple more incoming. One V6. No other trims on lots

Last edited by AutoUnion; 08-30-2012 at 05:43 PM.
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  #144  
Old 08-30-2012, 05:54 PM
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I got to drive the Cayenne Diesel and X5 Diesel back to back today. In my opinion, the Cayenne Diesel is much quieter than the X5d and it also seems quicker and smoother. I like the exterior of the X5 better and the interior of the Cayenne better.
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  #145  
Old 08-30-2012, 07:09 PM
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It looks like Porsche is trying to push the diesel as a volume model. Local dealer here in MA just got two on their lot and has a couple more incoming. One V6. No other trims on lots
Porsche will have 1,800 units in the US by December 31. All will sell out immediately, as that represents just 10 percent of Cayenne sales (most German automakers are doing at least 20 percent diesel sales in their mix).

Resale value will be very strong.

- Mike
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  #146  
Old 08-31-2012, 07:56 AM
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Looking forward to your review of the PCd (and tales of Alaska) soon......! Nice review of the Lexus -- they are all over the place here in the Valley -- Lexus must sell a ton of them!
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  #147  
Old 08-31-2012, 08:54 AM
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Looking forward to your review of the PCd (and tales of Alaska) soon......! Nice review of the Lexus -- they are all over the place here in the Valley -- Lexus must sell a ton of them!
It wasn't a very... ahem... positive review of the Lexus.

I didn't put any Alaska tales in the story, but the place was amazing. I am heading over to the Mercedes dealer today to drive the ML350 BlueTEC for a comparison.

- Mike
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  #148  
Old 08-31-2012, 01:23 PM
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Just went over to my local Porsche dealer that had two. One was sold and taken home last night and the other one they had on the lot ($73k sticker!!) was also sold this morning. Strict MSRP, no bargaining. They're getting a couple more soon.

I did sit in it. Loved the leather covered dash and the interior. It's def. smaller than the X5d though. Price is ridiculous.
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  #149  
Old 08-31-2012, 01:38 PM
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Just went over to my local Porsche dealer that had two. One was sold and taken home last night and the other one they had on the lot ($73k sticker!!) was also sold this morning. Strict MSRP, no bargaining. They're getting a couple more soon.

I did sit in it. Loved the leather covered dash and the interior. It's def. smaller than the X5d though. Price is ridiculous.
The one near hear had a few for around $10k less than that but of course that is $10k less options. Personally I'd be fine with one with next to no options but I am not picky on a lot of things for vehicles. The one I drove had lane assist, navigation, Bose, Xenons, and not sure what else for options.
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  #150  
Old 08-31-2012, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Just went over to my local Porsche dealer that had two. One was sold and taken home last night and the other one they had on the lot ($73k sticker!!) was also sold this morning. Strict MSRP, no bargaining. They're getting a couple more soon.

I did sit in it. Loved the leather covered dash and the interior. It's def. smaller than the X5d though. Price is ridiculous.
The one I drove in Alaska had a base price of $55,000... but a sticker of $93,000! It was loaded with nearly everything.

- Mike
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