X5 35d vs. Porsche Cayenne Diesel

Originally Posted by Emission

The one I drove in Alaska had a base price of $55,000... but a sticker of $93,000! It was loaded with nearly everything.

- Mike

Options cost almost as much as a base Cayenne TDI

Even at $73k, my X5d had more equipment for $10k less.

Originally Posted by Emission

Enemies in the garage (pic).

Do you have to move out the Touareg in order to climb into the X5?
The side mirrors are almost touching

Originally Posted by kankou

Do you have to move out the Touareg in order to climb into the X5?
The side mirrors are almost touching

The Touareg is only in there for the picture. My Audi A4 (wife is driving it) goes in that space at night.

In all honesty, the X5 will be parked in the garage for the next five weeks as I have five press cars back-to-back (VW Touareg Hybrid, Chevrolet Volt, Audi A7 TDI and Cadillac CTS-V). So, I basically wedge it really close to the Porsche (under a blue car cover) to keep it safe. I will drive it every weekend, just to keep it exercised.

- Mike

Is that Audi A7 TDI US-Spec?

I was just drooling over a white A7 S-Line today when I went to my local Audi/Porsche/VW dealer. If it's coming in a TDI, it could be my next car

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Is that Audi A7 TDI US-Spec?

I was just drooling over a white A7 S-Line today when I went to my local Audi/Porsche/VW dealer. If it's coming in a TDI, it could be my next car

Ooops. I meant to say Q7 TDI — sorry about that! I knew I was driving the Cayenne Diesel, so I asked for a bunch of this category (diesel and hybrid) for comparison. I am not really liking the VW Touareg Hybrid. Only averaging 18 mpg (my X5 35d does better) and the brakes, with regenerative crap going on, are very unnatural.

Just about done with my Cayenne Diesel story. Thinking I like the X5 better (give up a few HWY mpg for better passing power).

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

Ooops. I meant to say Q7 TDI — sorry about that! I knew I was driving the Cayenne Diesel, so I asked for a bunch of this category (diesel and hybrid) for comparison.

I was getting my hopes up

I am not really liking the VW Touareg Hybrid. Only averaging 18 mpg (my X5 35d does better) and the brakes, with regenerative crap going on, are very unnatural.

Yeah, I drove one last year with the TDI. Price isn't too bad since it only comes loaded at $62k, but the downside is that all VW dealers aren't "Hybrid certified," so they won't touch them.

It's really pretty fast with the supercharged V6 + electric motor, but the MPG is no where near the TDI. I remember reading somewhere that the hybrid was a replacement for the old 4.2 V8 Touareg (phased out in the whole VAG lineup for the most part), with some MPG improvements, but no where near the TDI.

TDI is much slower, but does get much better MPG and is cheaper.

Just about done with my Cayenne Diesel story. Thinking I like the X5 better (give up a few HWY mpg for better passing power).

- Mike

Looking forward to reading it

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

I was getting my hopes up



Yeah, I drove one last year with the TDI. Price isn't too bad since it only comes loaded at $62k, but the downside is that all VW dealers aren't "Hybrid certified," so they won't touch them.

It's really pretty fast with the supercharged V6 + electric motor, but the MPG is no where near the TDI. I remember reading somewhere that the hybrid was a replacement for the old 4.2 V8 Touareg (phased out in the whole VAG lineup for the most part), with some MPG improvements, but no where near the TDI.

TDI is much slower, but does get much better MPG and is cheaper.



Looking forward to reading it

I didn't spend much time comparing the Porsche to the BMW (the readers really don't care, as an all-new X5 will be out in a year). Instead, I will write up something just for this thread and on my other site.

- Mike

No unfortunate Moose encounters in AK then. Look forward to reading your impressions of the PCd, and of course the junket up there.

Thanks for sharing Mike. Have you had any extended seat time in the Cayenne V6? If so, how would you rate it compared to the Diesel? I've driven the V6 a couple of times and really like it. To be said we are going to trade a 2001 Pathfinder with 240hp that never felt too slow or weak for our SUV use so the NA 300hp in the Cayenne is already a trade up. It will be my wife's commuter and our adventure ride, it needs to be reliable.

We'll probably wait to make the final decision until the F-series X5 is uncovered but from what I've experienced ( owned an F10 ) and heard about the other F-series vehicles I'm pretty sure we'll pass. The reliability just isn't there and the classic BMW steering feel is ruined.

Originally Posted by solstice

Thanks for sharing Mike. Have you had any extended seat time in the Cayenne V6? If so, how would you rate it compared to the Diesel? I've driven the V6 a couple of times and really like it. To be said we are going to trade a 2001 Pathfinder with 240hp that never felt too slow or weak for our SUV use so the NA 300hp in the Cayenne is already a trade up. It will be my wife's commuter and our adventure ride, it needs to be reliable.

We'll probably wait to make the final decision until the F-series X5 is uncovered but from what I've experienced ( owned an F10 ) and heard about the other F-series vehicles I'm pretty sure we'll pass. The reliability just isn't there and the classic BMW steering feel is ruined.

The Cayenne Diesel is my choice over the gasoline-fed V6... if you can swing it. Much better fuel economy, and the oil-burner is quicker (you can't overlook the torque). Both are VW engines.

We likely won't see the next-gen X5 until spring.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

The Cayenne Diesel is my choice over the gasoline-fed V6... if you can swing it. Much better fuel economy, and the oil-burner is quicker (you can't overlook the torque). Both are VW engines.

We likely won't see the next-gen X5 until spring.

- Mike

According to this on the Touareg, the TDI is slower than the VR6 model. I had the VR6 in my old '07 Q7 3.6 and looking back on it, it was a dog of an engine.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...eg_first_test/

However, Car and Driver got 6.9s 0-60 on their Touareg TDI (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...i-test-reviews), which matches the X5d's time with 40 less hp. I would've expected the Cayenne to be even faster because it was lighter, but I guess not

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

According to this on the Touareg, the TDI is slower than the VR6 model. I had the VR6 in my old '07 Q7 3.6 and looking back on it, it was a dog of an engine.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...eg_first_test/

However, Car and Driver got 6.9s 0-60 on their Touareg TDI (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...i-test-reviews), which matches the X5d's time with 40 less hp. I would've expected the Cayenne to be even faster because it was lighter, but I guess not

The Hybrid I am driving is 5.8 seconds to 60? My X5 35d feels faster! Plus, my average fuel economy in the VW Hybrid is 15.4 mpg as of five minutes ago.

Don't trust printed numbers from MT, CD, R&T or anyone for that matter. Those of us in the industry know what kind of padding is done to fix the numbers...

- Mike

If the awd system in the V6 is better than in the diesel I'm probably sticking with the V6. It seems you guys are a bit more engine focused than me. Reliability tops engine performance for us in an SUV.

Originally Posted by solstice

If the awd system in the V6 is better than in the diesel I'm probably sticking with the V6. It seems you guys are a bit more engine focused than me. Reliability tops engine performance for us in an SUV.

Doubt that you could tell the difference in AWD systems, but in terms of the engine, the V6 is alright, but the TDI is better. Faster, more economical, longer range, no DI carbon buildup issues to worry about, etc

So I just built a Cayenne with the same toys as my X5 and the Cayenne even lacks some important ones like ConnectedDrive, BMW Assist, Side/Top View Cameras, etc

[img]

Cayenne Diesel $55,750
Packages
Premium Package Plus PU3
$10,180
Exterior Colors
Dark Blue Metallic N4 $790
Interior Colors
Standard Interior in Black MA
$0
Exterior
Panorama Roof System 3FU
$1,850
Exterior Package in High-gloss Black QJ4
$150
Roof Rails and Moldings with Black Finish 3S5
$820
Performance
Power Steering Plus 1N3
$0
Wheels
18" Cayenne Wheel C1J
$0
Interior
Extended LED comfort lighting package AEH
$845
Heated Three-spoke Multifunction Steering Wheel 2ZH
$0
14-way Power Seats with Memory Package PE5
$0
Audio and Communications
Compass Display on Instrument Panel QR1
$270
Six-Disc Changer 7D7
$650
BOSE(R) Surround Sound System 9VL
$1,690
Telephone Module 9W1
$265
Voice Control QH1
$595
SiriusXM(R) Satellite Radio + HD Radio(R) Receiver QV8
$1,120
Destination Charge:
Destination Charge: $975
Total Price* $75,950
*Option availability and pricing subject to change. Please consult your local dealer for the most up-to-date information.

I just want a reliable luxury SUV that feels good to drive and for me the Cayenne is the only game in town. BMW used to own this segment but lately they lost their way. I love and believe in them and I'm sure they'll be back with a vengeance but the F-series so far is a dark episode which is neither reliable or good to drive, just luxurious. Kind of like a Jaguar. Yes I could get an E70, it's great but the Cayenne is better IMO. Power or mpg is not really interesting to me as long as it's sufficient which is pretty much covered by all Cayenne and X5 models on sale today in the US. Porsche's are expensive but for us as a family we have agreed that they are worth it when BMW fails to deliver.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Doubt that you could tell the difference in AWD systems, but in terms of the engine, the V6 is alright, but the TDI is better. Faster, more economical, longer range, no DI carbon buildup issues to worry about, etc

That is a very good point, and I agree. I took the Cayenne Diesel into a riverbed at low tide. Wet silt. Running high-performance Michelin tires it got bogged down with two wheels in the air while crossing a deep rut... I locked the center diff and it plodded forward without drama. If you do more off-road than that in a Cayenne, you need some help (or a Jeep).

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

That is a very good point, and I agree. I took the Cayenne Diesel into a riverbed at low tide. Wet silt. Running high-performance Michelin tires it got bogged down with two wheels in the air while crossing a deep rut... I locked the center diff and it plodded forward without drama. If you do more off-road than that in a Cayenne, you need some help (or a Jeep).

- Mike

I'll definitely take the oil burner for a spin back to back with the V6 before deciding. Just to be clear are you saying that you think the diesels awd is superior in adverse conditions ( snow, mud, steep terrain etc. ) due to the manual diff. center lock and that the other models are superior only in dry performance driving? This could tip the scale to the diesel even with a more unknown reliability record and the slight risk of not finding a diesel pump in the WA back-countries.

Originally Posted by solstice

I'll definitely take the oil burner for a spin back to back with the V6 before deciding. Just to be clear are you saying that you think the diesels awd is superior in adverse conditions ( snow, mud, steep terrain etc. ) due to the manual diff. center lock and that the other models are superior only in dry performance driving? This could tip the scale to the diesel even with a more unknown reliability record and the slight risk of not finding a diesel pump in the WA back-countries.

That, my friend, is a damn good question!

I am going to ask Porsche directly, to see what they have to say.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

That, my friend, is a damn good question!

I am going to ask Porsche directly, to see what they have to say.

- Mike

When should we see your writeup? It looks like no other press site has a Cayenne Diesel review up yet either

Originally Posted by solstice

I'll definitely take the oil burner for a spin back to back with the V6 before deciding. Just to be clear are you saying that you think the diesels awd is superior in adverse conditions ( snow, mud, steep terrain etc. ) due to the manual diff. center lock and that the other models are superior only in dry performance driving? This could tip the scale to the diesel even with a more unknown reliability record and the slight risk of not finding a diesel pump in the WA back-countries.

If anything, in back-countries, it would be easier due to tractors, etc. Just make sure to fill up with D2 and not the dyed diesel

+1! With all the logging trucks in WA (and OR) you would have to look long and hard for a place that DIDN'T have diesel on offer. Mike, I was surprised to see you could lock up the diff on the new Cayenne. I thought that went away with the new model and was no longer available here (but was in Europe). Unless of course for the press junket in Alaska Porsche realized that a locker was required to avoid embarrasing moments (in tidal riverbeds). Of course they left the summer rubber on -- so I guess they didn't think of everything.

Originally Posted by autounion

when should we see your writeup? It looks like no other press site has a cayenne diesel review up yet either

+1111

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

So I just built a Cayenne with the same toys as my X5 and the Cayenne even lacks some important ones like ConnectedDrive, BMW Assist, Side/Top View Cameras, etc

[img]

They seemed to have spelled Hyundai wrong in that picture...

Originally Posted by Emission

That, my friend, is a damn good question!

I am going to ask Porsche directly, to see what they have to say.

- Mike

Great thanks!
If the central diff lock is anything like in our Pathfinder the difference is huge. It has:

2WD - Rear wheel drive only. ( Dry pavement )
Auto - AWD ( Rain, Gravel, Grass, Light snow )
4 WD Hi - ( Heavy snow, Mud, Loose sand )
4WD - Lo - ( Pull AWDs out of the ditch )

The difference between Auto and 4WD -Hi is the locked central diff. It multiplies the capabiblities in for example deep snow.
I would expect the Cayenne to have a far more efficient default mode though to more mimic the capabilities of all of the Pathfinders modes depending on need.