X5 35d vs. Porsche Cayenne Diesel

From Porsche re the two different powertrains...

"The Cayenne Diesel / Cayenne S Hybrid drivetrain is taken straight from the shared WV/Audi platform. The front to rear torque split is fixed at 40% front - 60 % rear, and is heavier and mechanical in design.

The rest of the Cayenne line up uses a proprietary Porsche system that utilizes electronics for a full variable torque split, is lighter and yet more sophisticated.

The Cayenne drivetrain was developed independently, however the Hybrid and Diesel are shared technology."


Keep in mind that the standard Cayenne (V6 gasoline) also uses a VW engine, shared with the standard Touareg.

In contrast, the Panamera V6 uses a Porsche engine. Read "...don't confuse the new 3.6-liter V6 in the Panamera with the revised 3.6-liter V6 in the 2011 Porsche Cayenne – they are completely different. The SUV shares its Volkswagen-sourced 10.6-degree iron-block six with the Touareg (touted as the "VR6 FSI"). However, Porsche has developed an all-new lightweight 90-degree aluminum-block V6 for its flagship sedan. Not only does this dissuade potential naysayers, but it allows the automaker to assemble the V6 alongside the V8 (they share 40 percent of their componentry) and easily adapt the V8's all-wheel drive system to the new V6." (From my story on the Panamera V6.)

- Mike

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Yeah,, it's one of the better things about BMW with included maintenance. However, MB Blutec's also have super expensive maintenance also, so we can't just blame Porsche.

I wonder if you can prepay maintenance, like you can with AudiCare.

I do not recall seeing a pre-pay maintenance plan on the Porsche site and I had asked him about maintenance when I looked at their SUV and he said nothing about such a thing. You can get that on the MBZ though. I think really maintenance is expensive at most dealers it is just a matter of are you going to have to pay for it out of pocket with each visit while under warranty or wait until out of it.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Valid point, but around here, Porsche is superior because they deal with a different client (ie more wealthy) and they are better than BMW. The average BMW customer is a lease spec 3 series owner, not a near $100k Panamera/911 or even $60k+ Boxster/Cayman owner.

I'd think it is the same here but for whatever reason my experience with that one dealer here in town was never good. But then again so was our experiences with a VW dealer here in town under the same parent company. So probably just that parent company more than anything else.

Originally Posted by Emission

From Porsche re the two different powertrains...

"The Cayenne Diesel / Cayenne S Hybrid drivetrain is taken straight from the shared WV/Audi platform. The front to rear torque split is fixed at 40% front - 60 % rear, and is heavier and mechanical in design.

The rest of the Cayenne line up uses a proprietary Porsche system that utilizes electronics for a full variable torque split, is lighter and yet more sophisticated.

The Cayenne drivetrain was developed independently, however the Hybrid and Diesel are shared technology."


Keep in mind that the standard Cayenne (V6 gasoline) also uses a VW engine, shared with the standard Touareg.

In contrast, the Panamera V6 uses a Porsche engine. Read "...don't confuse the new 3.6-liter V6 in the Panamera with the revised 3.6-liter V6 in the 2011 Porsche Cayenne – they are completely different. The SUV shares its Volkswagen-sourced 10.6-degree iron-block six with the Touareg (touted as the "VR6 FSI"). However, Porsche has developed an all-new lightweight 90-degree aluminum-block V6 for its flagship sedan. Not only does this dissuade potential naysayers, but it allows the automaker to assemble the V6 alongside the V8 (they share 40 percent of their componentry) and easily adapt the V8's all-wheel drive system to the new V6." (From my story on the Panamera V6.)

- Mike

Thanks a bunch Mike. Based on this info and the 400 lbs penalty of the diesel I'll stay with the V6 plan unless a back to back test drive makes me change my mind.

Originally Posted by solstice

Thanks a bunch Mike. Based on this info and the 400 lbs penalty of the diesel I'll stay with the V6 plan unless a back to back test drive makes me change my mind.

The weight shouldn't make much of a difference, especially when you consider the diesel's acceleration and fuel economy. What does it matter?

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

The weight shouldn't make much of a difference, especially when you consider the diesel's acceleration and fuel economy. What does it matter?

- Mike

It matters to me not for power but for handling. I really like Porsche's drive and discipline to keep weight in check on their vehicles. And as we we all know a lighter rig with similar chassi will handle a lot better. It also sounds like the awd system in the V6 would contribute to even better handling. Again, the engine is not what makes me prefer the Cayenne. It actually plays a very minor role as long as it''s sufficient. It's the quality, reliability and handling that matters most, that is after the fact that my wife really likes it and it's on top of her list

I have driven both and if you do, there is no doubt that you will like the diesel better. I think it feels like V8 power, which is probably all the torque the diesel offers.

Originally Posted by solstice

Thanks a bunch Mike. Based on this info and the 400 lbs penalty of the diesel I'll stay with the V6 plan unless a back to back test drive makes me change my mind.

Originally Posted by DBV

I have driven both and if you do, there is no doubt that you will like the diesel better. I think it feels like V8 power, which is probably all the torque the diesel offers.

Maybe but I'm not so sure since I think I will be able to feel the rather large difference in weight when hustling these rigs around. My guess is that the V6 will feel nimbler and have a quicker steering response. And I'll happily trade a heap of grunt for some added athleticism since I find the VR6 to be both rather refined and sufficiently powerful and not at all a dog as refered to by some here.

Much will depend on the tires and suspension. Upgrading both is much more dramatic on the Cayenne than it is on the X5. When you combine PASM and 21-inch wheels, the Cayenne will run with sport sedans...

- Mike

P.S. - I drove a Tesla Model S (VIN 0001!) tonight. Talk about a game-changer! Story next week...

Originally Posted by DBV

I have driven both and if you do, there is no doubt that you will like the diesel better. I think it feels like V8 power, which is probably all the torque the diesel offers.

This is a good point, but the base 3.6 V6 is a fantastic powerplant too. It makes good power, good torque, and above all, it makes a good noise. Plus it loves to rev.

I prefer the diesel, but the VR6 (it IS NOT a V6) shouldn't be ignored either.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

This is a good point, but the base 3.6 V6 is a fantastic powerplant too. It makes good power, good torque, and above all, it makes a good noise. Plus it loves to rev.

I prefer the diesel, but the VR6 (it IS NOT a V6) shouldn't be ignored either.

Some good noise is always a good thing in my book. One of the first selling points the Porsche dealer blurted out upon getting into the Cayenne diesel with him was how it has zero exhaust sound and almost zero engine noise. That to me is a negative not a positive.

Perhaps the Porsche salesman was over compensating for the perception that "diesel clatter" would be a serious impediment to sales. That might be why they were downplaying the noise factor. After all why should a Cayenne Diesel sound like an F350 Superduty Navistar when starting up? Personally, I do not find that objectionable and actually like the diesel clatter "and the smell of (diesel) in the morning", but others may.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Perhaps the Porsche salesman was over compensating for the perception that "diesel clatter" would be a serious impediment to sales. That might be why they were downplaying the noise factor. After all why should a Cayenne Diesel sound like an F350 Superduty Navistar when starting up? Personally, I do not find that objectionable and actually like the diesel clatter "and the smell of (diesel) in the morning", but others may.

Only thing that bugs me about my E70 is the clatter. No idea why it is so loud. The 335d doesn't have this issue and the Q7/ML/GL/Treg all are silent.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Perhaps the Porsche salesman was over compensating for the perception that "diesel clatter" would be a serious impediment to sales. That might be why they were downplaying the noise factor. After all why should a Cayenne Diesel sound like an F350 Superduty Navistar when starting up? Personally, I do not find that objectionable and actually like the diesel clatter "and the smell of (diesel) in the morning", but others may.

Then he did a bad job because he was comparing it to the S and making his pitch sound like people want all of the SUVs to be as engine noise free as possible. I do not think my 335d engine sounds like an F350 when accelerating. I think it actually has a somewhat aggressive sound to it and I'd expected at least that from the Porsche and hoped for much more. BTW an F350 with aftermarket exhaust sounds more like a big block muscle car than clattery when driving down the road.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Only thing that bugs me about my E70 is the clatter. No idea why it is so loud. The 335d doesn't have this issue and the Q7/ML/GL/Treg all are silent.

BMW has a thick foam pad over the injectors, but nothing on the sides. While the 335d's engine is crammed in the nose, the X5 engine compartment allows a lot more space around the sides... maybe it acts like an acoustic chamber to amplify the noise? All I know is that the X5 35d is the LOUDEST import diesel currently on the market (but my wife likes the sound).

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

All I know is that the X5 35d is the LOUDEST import diesel currently on the market (but my wife likes the sound).

- Mike

This is true. Under throttle, I think it sounds quite aggressive though. The idle clatter is really annoying though. My old '10 Jetta had a slight tick compared to this.

The "objectionable" clatter is usually on start up or idle. Underway the oil burners sound great -- especially the big Duramaxes, Navistars, and Cummins in the domestic HD pickups! Those with an aftermarket Flowmaster or Borla exhaust coupled with a Banks enhancement package sound even better IMHO!
Mike, when do we get to read your Cayenne diesel report from the tundra?

Originally Posted by UncleJ

The "objectionable" clatter is usually on start up or idle. Underway the oil burners sound great -- especially the big Duramaxes, Navistars, and Cummins in the domestic HD pickups! Those with an aftermarket Flowmaster or Borla exhaust coupled with a Banks enhancement package sound even better IMHO!
Mike, when do we get to read your Cayenne diesel report from the tundra?

I finished it some time ago... lots of other stuff plugging the editorial schedule.

That said, I have a Tesla Model S story scheduled to run on Tuesday (still only about 50 percent done!) and my Cayenne Diesel story scheduled for Wednesday. I drive an Audi A3 e-tron concept tomorrow.

- Mike

Mike, Alex Lloyd has his Alaskan adventure with the Cayenne Diesel up on Jalopnik -- black bear encounter and all. Very interesting read. Didn't manage to see Russia like Sarah did though. Note: Big Diomede and Little Diomede are separated by 2.2 miles of the Bering Sea that freezes over in the winter -- Big D is Russian and Little D is US -- so you really do see Russia from (parts of) Alaska.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Mike, Alex Lloyd has his Alaskan adventure up on Jalopnik -- black bear encounter and all. Very interesting read. Didn't manage to see Russia like Sarah did though. Note: Big Diomede and Little Diomede are separated by a very short stretch of the Bering Sea that freezes over in the winter -- Big D is Russian and Little D is US -- so you really do see Russia from (parts of) Alaska.

They ran my Tesla S story yesterday... then pushed my Cayenne diesel back to Monday (9/17) so the 2013 Mini Cooper Countryman story can run in 15 minutes. I'll be in Germany that day, so I won't have a chance to comment on the Fest until I return the next evening.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

They ran my Tesla S story yesterday... then pushed my Cayenne diesel back to Monday (9/17) so the 2013 Mini Cooper Countryman story can run in 15 minutes. I'll be in Germany that day, so I won't have a chance to comment on the Fest until I return the next evening.

- Mike

We have a Tesla dealer in town and I've been impressed by the design of the Model S both from a looks and utility point of view. One thing I don't see in your review is comments on the EPS. I guess this car is aimed at being a sporty sedan, what was your obervations of the EPS, is it better than say in the F10?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/12/p...paris-w-video/

Porsche Cayenne S Diesel to debut in Paris

For any of our European readers who like the Cayenne Diesel but who have been holding out for a higher-power formula, good news has arrived. Porsche has confirmed earlier rumors by announcing that a more powerful diesel version of its Cayenne SUV will debut at the Paris Motor Show later this month.

According to Porsche, the Cayenne S will feature the company's most powerful diesel engine ever. Under its sculpted hood is a turbocharged 4.2-liter V8 with direct injection rated at 382 horsepower and 850 Nm (627 pound feet) of torque. With that power, the Cayenne S Diesel can accelerate from 0-60 in just 5.7 seconds and arrive at a top speed of 157 mph.

The Cayenne S Diesel also incorporates stop/start, which Porsche says makes it the only diesel SUV to do so. The result is a European cycle fuel economy of 8.3 liters per 100 km (that converts to roughly 28 miles per gallon, albeit not on the EPA's test cycle).

This news comes on the same day as the release of the video below, which celebrates a less-powerful diesel Cayenne. The U.S. version of the Porsche Cayenne Diesel (note the lack of an "S" designation), debuted at the New York Auto Show back in April featuring a 3.0-liter V6. That engine makes 240 horsepower and 406 pound feet of torque and carries a base MSRP of $55,750, whereas the not-for-North-America V8 diesel rings up at €77,684 – about $100k.

Is there a connection between the U.S. video and the Porsche press release below? Unfortunately, no. Porsche officials tell Autoblog that the Cayenne S Diesel will not be coming to America. If you really had your hopes up, well... feel free to thumb through the gallery wistfully.

I WANT THIS!

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/12/p...paris-w-video/







I WANT THIS!

Not me. Diesels are really great for SUVs but I don't like them as performance engines wether it's an SUV or car. I'd have the Turbo for that money. Well as long as gas is not 10 bucks (Europe) where a diesel would be the only option for big power. But instead of for example a 911 with a monster diesel I'd rather have a much smaller high revving gasser in a super light chassi.

I hope the diesel s pushes BMW to bring over its M diesels

Jay

Originally Posted by solstice

We have a Tesla dealer in town and I've been impressed by the design of the Model S both from a looks and utility point of view. One thing I don't see in your review is comments on the EPS. I guess this car is aimed at being a sporty sedan, what was your obervations of the EPS, is it better than say in the F10?

I didn't really have a chance to wring it out in a sporty manner on Mulholland (the roads were packed), but the steering was a non-issue to me. In all honesty, the Model S is more fun to drive than today's 5 Series. I really didn't like the 550i, and I am currently in the middle of my F10 M5 6MT story (working on it right now).

- Mike

Originally Posted by jashearer

I hope the diesel s pushes BMW to bring over its M diesels

Jay

The Cayenne S Diesel has as much chance to make it to USA as does M50d.
By the way, M50d vehicles are .4 second quicker, despite having 3.0 (vs 4.8) displacement, and being generally heavier than Cayenne. The Diesel S has more torque though.

Would be interesting to see how all that plays out on the track. Give me x5/x6 m50d vs Cayenne S Disesel video!