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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 09-13-2012, 07:20 AM
chull chull is offline
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The picture of the iPod Nano in the Five was shown as part of the Bluetooth section of the presentation. As the Nano now has Bluetooth, you do not need a cable at all.

I think that we will see the incompatibility of the iPhone 5 with many BMWs, including my X3 and 135i. The 135i uses a Y-cable, and plugs the USB into one and the analog audio into another on the car. I can see BMW making a new version of this cable, with a combo Lightning AND 3.5mm tied together with the correct spacing. It would work, as would the new Apple adaptor plus a separate 3.5mm cable. To work best, BMW would need a SW update to set the volume on the headphone jack to match the expected volume levels, then use the car's amp for the volume after that. Audio quality would suffer as the signal has to go through the headphone amp first.

My X3 is using the aux in, with a aux-splitter cable, much like the expensive BMW part. I will need a pair of cables now to replace the single and have to tear apart the car to rewire it. In the short term, this will probably be a Apple USB cable and a 3.5mm audio cable. But I can see Chinese entrepreneurs selling a combo cable with a wider connector combining the Lightning and 3.5mm in a single unit.

Cradles will probably fail due to size constraints, and the requirement to get to the analog audio port, which is not yet supported.
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  #27  
Old 09-13-2012, 07:45 AM
sheil sheil is offline
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The difference between using a Snap-in adapter and just a USB cable is the following:
    1. BMW Plugin - changes the iDrive screen to the same look and feel as the iPod function on an iPhone. It allows you to take advantage of all the iPod features (Genius, album art, compiling playlists, etc) that are not available via the basic USB connection. With future iPhone software updates, new features will also be available in the car. An additional benefit comes in the way of increased interface speed
    2. Video playback - enables video playback from the iPhone/iPod

Here's a pic (third screen is the Plugin screen):
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  #28  
Old 09-13-2012, 08:03 AM
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Technic Technic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Yeah I started the thread.

The point being made is that the snap in dock may not be available for 6-9 months.

In the meantime, those who want snap in functionality can use Apples new Dock Adapter cable to connect the old snap-in adapter to the new iPhone 5. The iPhone 5 won't sit in the cradle, but the cable will allow it to charge and have full snap-in like integration with the car.
By looking at the size of the Lightning adapter and the current iPhone OEM snap-in adapter shape I doubt that you will be able to even plug the iPhone 5/adapter into the snap in at all.

The insertion angle may exceed the limit of the OEM 30-pin connector at the snap in, IMO.
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  #29  
Old 09-13-2012, 08:18 AM
djsilo djsilo is offline
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I currently have a docxtender cable and never plug my phone directly into the doc (my case is too large). I imagine if you purchased a 30pin extender cable you could attach an adapter to the end and have the phone outside of the armrest.
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  #30  
Old 09-13-2012, 08:37 AM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
By looking at the size of the Lightning adapter and the current iPhone OEM snap-in adapter shape I doubt that you will be able to even plug the iPhone 5/adapter into the snap in at all.

The insertion angle may exceed the limit of the OEM 30-pin connector at the snap in, IMO.
They offer both an adapter and an adapter cable. The latter wont pose a problem.
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  #31  
Old 09-13-2012, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
They offer both an adapter and an adapter cable. The latter wont pose a problem.
From the point of view of the adapter and the snap-in, it is a moot point -the adapter does not support iPod Out/Video: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=23
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  #32  
Old 09-13-2012, 03:09 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
From the point of view of the adapter and the snap-in, it is a moot point -the adapter does not support iPod Out/Video: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=23
That is not necessarily true. I have not seen the cabling specs on the iphone but there have been phones that through their connection port give you a directly pipe to the RF receivers in the phone (remember when you had a connector near the antenna where you could connect another antenna?)

I am not saying this is how it works on the iphone, but it is possible that via the 30 pin connector this function was available. Until we get our hands on the phone, the connector, and someone shows how the BMW wiring works we won't know.

We also won't now how much we lose with the adapter, but we will definitely lose something.
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Last edited by miamiboyca; 09-13-2012 at 03:11 PM.
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  #33  
Old 09-13-2012, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
That is not necessarily true. I have not seen the cabling specs on the iphone but there have been phones that through their connection port give you a directly pipe to the RF receivers in the phone (remember when you had a connector near the antenna where you could connect another antenna?)

I am not saying this is how it works on the iphone, but it is possible that via the 30 pin connector this function was available. Until we get our hands on the phone, the connector, and someone shows how the BMW wiring works we won't know.

We also won't know how much we lose with the adapter, but we will definitely lose something.
Those are not unknowns.

- Look up the 30-pin connector pinout of the now "old" Apple connector. There is no antenna pin.

- The OEM baseplate do have an antenna connector.

- The Lightning adapter is confirmed to not support iPod Out/video.
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  #34  
Old 09-13-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Those are not unknowns.

- Look up the 30-pin connector pinout of the now "old" Apple connector. There is no antenna pin.

- The OEM baseplate do have an antenna connector.

- The Lightning adapter is confirmed to not support iPod Out/video.
Technic, that is great that you have access to the info - Can you please...


Please post what the adapter does internally.
Please post the wiring diagram that show how the OEM connector pins out
Please post the internal pinout of the "adapter"
Please post the internal specs of how Apple feeds their receivers.

Utmost appreciation for being able to share this info
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  #35  
Old 09-13-2012, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
Technic, that is great that you have access to the info - Can you please...


Please post what the adapter does internally.
Please post the wiring diagram that show how the OEM connector pins out
Please post the internal pinout of the "adapter"
Please post the internal specs of how Apple feeds their receivers.

Utmost appreciation for being able to share this info
That's what Google is for, sir...
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  #36  
Old 09-13-2012, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
That's what Google is for, sir...
Yeah, that is what I thought. I couldn't find it either.
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  #37  
Old 09-13-2012, 06:15 PM
tadtaggert tadtaggert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gspannu View Post
The one extra thing that the cradle connector gives (over the standard USB connection) is an inductive antenna connection via the car's shark-fin antenna - hence a better signal.
Considering how poor radio reception is in BMW's in general, I'm not sure that's a good thing or not.
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  #38  
Old 09-13-2012, 09:10 PM
whitby whitby is offline
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To summarise what I know and have found out:

1. The old 30 pin connector does not have an RF connection (as pointed out by Technic). The snap in adapter provides inductive coupling from the iPhone antenna to the cars antenna. There is no direct connection.
2. The new 9 pin connector is a digital interface. The adapter has a chip that is used to verify the connection as legitimate. It may also do some protocol conversion, not sure about that.
3. The adapter does not support the so called iPod interface protocol (which was supported over the USB interface) so there will be no control of the play back system and cover displays etc. from iDrive. Presumably this is a protocol change so it is possible that BMW can update software to use the new interface.
4. The analogue component and composite video interface in the old 30 pin connector is no longer supported, so the video feed in the current BMW iDrive interface will no longer work. Presumably the new 9 pin connection supports a digital interface (probably some variant of HDMI) which will require more than a software change to iDrive. If a new adapter is designed it will need to take the digital video feed and convert it to component video which may not be to the media industries liking who outlawed component video because it is easy to use for copying purposes.

Overall it does not look very promising for an adapter that can take the iPhone 5 and make it work in the same way as the older iPhones with the 30 pin connector.
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  #39  
Old 09-13-2012, 09:13 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadtaggert View Post
Considering how poor radio reception is in BMW's in general, I'm not sure that's a good thing or not.
Completely different situation. Apples and oranges as the saying goes...
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  #40  
Old 09-14-2012, 08:52 AM
ksqrd ksqrd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitby View Post
To summarise what I know and have found out:

1. The old 30 pin connector does not have an RF connection (as pointed out by Technic). The snap in adapter provides inductive coupling from the iPhone antenna to the cars antenna. There is no direct connection.
2. The new 9 pin connector is a digital interface. The adapter has a chip that is used to verify the connection as legitimate. It may also do some protocol conversion, not sure about that.
3. The adapter does not support the so called iPod interface protocol (which was supported over the USB interface) so there will be no control of the play back system and cover displays etc. from iDrive. Presumably this is a protocol change so it is possible that BMW can update software to use the new interface.
4. The analogue component and composite video interface in the old 30 pin connector is no longer supported, so the video feed in the current BMW iDrive interface will no longer work. Presumably the new 9 pin connection supports a digital interface (probably some variant of HDMI) which will require more than a software change to iDrive. If a new adapter is designed it will need to take the digital video feed and convert it to component video which may not be to the media industries liking who outlawed component video because it is easy to use for copying purposes.

Overall it does not look very promising for an adapter that can take the iPhone 5 and make it work in the same way as the older iPhones with the 30 pin connector.
Thanks for the very helpful post. TUAW is reporting preliminary Apple-derived information that an adapter to enable video out may be forthcoming (but probably to either VGA or HDMI). Interesting how this will play out.
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  #41  
Old 09-14-2012, 09:07 AM
shaunatl shaunatl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitby View Post
To summarise what I know and have found out:

3. The adapter does not support the so called iPod interface protocol (which was supported over the USB interface) so there will be no control of the play back system and cover displays etc. from iDrive. Presumably this is a protocol change so it is possible that BMW can update software to use the new interface.
Can you provide a link to the source for this information?
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  #42  
Old 09-14-2012, 01:00 PM
Sonic Boom Sonic Boom is offline
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Originally Posted by shaunatl View Post
Can you provide a link to the source for this information?
http://www.tuaw.com/2012/09/13/light...-ipod-out-doe/
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  #43  
Old 09-14-2012, 01:08 PM
shaunatl shaunatl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitby View Post
3. The adapter does not support the so called iPod interface protocol (which was supported over the USB interface) so there will be no control of the play back system and cover displays etc. from iDrive. Presumably this is a protocol change so it is possible that BMW can update software to use the new interface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Boom View Post
Thanks, but the information provided in that post does not match up with #3 in the list above. The 30 pin adapter doesn't support "iPod Out" or video output, but it appears that most other functionality is supported. "iPod Out" is not required for the items listed above, specifically album art and "control of the play back system".
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  #44  
Old 09-14-2012, 01:21 PM
Sonic Boom Sonic Boom is offline
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Originally Posted by shaunatl View Post
Thanks, but the information provided in that post does not match up with #3 in the list above.
Yes, I know it doesn't; never said it did. I was simply trying to steer you towards information to clarify.
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  #45  
Old 09-14-2012, 01:24 PM
shaunatl shaunatl is offline
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Yes, I know it doesn't; never said it did. I was simply trying to steer you towards information to clarify.
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  #46  
Old 09-14-2012, 02:27 PM
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FYI: Album Art/Cover Art are image data files, not video.

The USB port handle those with the music data files.
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  #47  
Old 09-14-2012, 02:44 PM
shaunatl shaunatl is offline
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
FYI: Album Art/Cover Art are image data files, not video.

The USB port handle those with the music data files.
Exactly...
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  #48  
Old 09-14-2012, 05:19 PM
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http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/09...ning-bmw-mini/
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  #49  
Old 09-14-2012, 08:01 PM
pharding pharding is offline
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Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
Anyone know the gain provided by the roof-mounted telephone antenna? I can't seem to find any specs.
1+ bar on Verizon. It works quite well.
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  #50  
Old 09-14-2012, 09:00 PM
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ugh. i think everything is a little premature at this point, but if BMW apps doesn't work then i'll be super pissed that i spent the money on whole setup. I already know the snap-in is lost.
An interim solution is mentioned in the comments. Stick your iphone4/4s in the snap-in or usb and tether off your iphone5's data connection.
The snap-in was pretty nice to keep the solution clean, i also got better cell/data reception but the video and ipod plug-in interface wasn't very useful for me.
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