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  #26  
Old 09-21-2012, 02:14 PM
alep85 alep85 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
What options do you add to an F30 that change the quality of the interior materials?
You're kidding, right? The base F30 interior looks terrible (particularly in beige with the black dash.....just awful).

-First off, the aluminum that's on the base model F30 isn't even real aluminum....it's some kind of composite plastic junk. To me, this crappy plastic trim is a major downgrade from the wood trim on the E90. So either you spend $500 for the wood trim, or you buy one of the "lines" for a few grand.

-I don't mind that BMW's don't have leather standard, but at the prices they're asking, it's a little absurd that they don't. If Audi can do it in the A4, I don't understand why it's so hard for BMW to offer leather standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Caddy?

NO thanks.

I'm not 70.
Well, that's your loss, and a very dated viewpoint (would've been true 4-5 years ago). I love BMW's, but I'm not so jaded to think that Cadillac/Infiniti/etc. can make a car just as good. Besides, it's good that companies like Caddy are stepping up to the plate and taking on the 3 series....it makes BMW work that much harder to produce a great sports sedan.

Last edited by alep85; 09-21-2012 at 02:17 PM.
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  #27  
Old 09-21-2012, 02:21 PM
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MMME30W MMME30W is offline
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^^^ It's ok, I guess I'll have to just keep driving my M3 for a while.

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  #28  
Old 09-21-2012, 02:25 PM
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Oh, and good luck finding a ATS 3.6l v6 w a 6 speed.

Oh yeah, that's right, not available.
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  #29  
Old 09-21-2012, 02:29 PM
alep85 alep85 is offline
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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Oh, and good luck finding a ATS 3.6l v6 w a 6 speed.

Oh yeah, that's right, not available.
Meh, I'm not really interested in the 3.6, so I could care less. I'm more interested in the 2.0 turbo, anyways. The 3.6 really doesn't have that much better track times than the 2.0, similar to the 335i vs. the 328i.

Of course, I'd take the M3 over all of them, if money weren't an issue The CTS-V is an awesome track car with the magnetic suspension (a friend has a 2010 V and it's incredible), but the interior is getting dated.
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  #30  
Old 09-21-2012, 02:30 PM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alep85 View Post
So either you spend $500 for the wood trim, or you buy one of the "lines" for a few grand.
Are you sure the Dark Burl Walnut trim is a cost option? I just went out to BMWUSA.com, and adding it did not appear to change the price of the car. No line, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alep85 View Post
I don't mind that BMW's don't have leather standard, but at the prices they're asking, it's a little absurd that they don't. If Audi can do it in the A4, I don't understand why it's so hard for BMW to offer leather standard.
Ah, I did forget about the leather thing. I'd probably never consider a BMW so "base" as to not include it, but technically you have a point. Although everyone I've talked to who has ordered a car with the vinyl has said that it's essentially indistinguishable from the BMW leather.
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  #31  
Old 09-21-2012, 02:33 PM
alep85 alep85 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Are you sure the Dark Burl Walnut trim is a cost option? I just went out to BMWUSA.com, and adding it did not appear to change the price of the car. No line, either.

Ah, I did forget about the leather thing. I'd probably never consider a BMW so "base" as to not include it, but technically you have a point. Although everyone I've talked to who has ordered a car with the vinyl has said that it's essentially indistinguishable from the BMW leather.
$500 bucks, check out the screenshot.

I do think BMW's leatherette isn't bad (and sometimes holds up better than regular leather). But I still think it should be real leather if they're charging $36,500 to start for a 328i.
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  #32  
Old 09-21-2012, 02:40 PM
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MMME30W MMME30W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alep85 View Post
Meh, I'm not really interested in the 3.6, so I could care less. I'm more interested in the 2.0 turbo, anyways. The 3.6 really doesn't have that much better track times than the 2.0, similar to the 335i vs. the 328i.

Of course, I'd take the M3 over all of them, if money weren't an issue The CTS-V is an awesome track car with the magnetic suspension (a friend has a 2010 V and it's incredible), but the interior is getting dated.
Good call.

Now, the cts v, different animal.

Mrs. MMME30W wants one in the wagon version. In red.
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  #33  
Old 09-21-2012, 09:06 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
2012 Cadillac ATS 0-60 times match BMW

The 2013 Cadillac ATS is the hot new sports sedan that GM has specifically stated will be a BMW killer. The ATS and it's flat out challenge to the BMW has been meet with excitement and skepticism. The big brother to the ATS, the CTS-V has been stacked up against the BMW M5 (Road & Track M5 vs CTS-V) on more then one occasion.

The first production Cadillac ATS are out and we're getting performance figures that should put all the arguing to an end, or start up a new round of heated discussion between Cadillac and BMW enthusiasts.




The two engine variants that closely match BMW's N20 turbo 4 cylinder and N55 turbo 6 cylinder the Cadillac matches or beats the F30 3 Series. Would you consider trading in your bimmer for a caddy?

Thanks to Motorauthority for the information.
0-60 is the most useless statistic ever. What would be useful is 40-80. THAT would be good to know.
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  #34  
Old 09-22-2012, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ProRail View Post
0-60 is the most useless statistic ever. What would be useful is 40-80. THAT would be good to know.
agreed - most US BMWs do well in that area!
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  #35  
Old 09-22-2012, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Even if the ATS is a killer car, I think they misjudge their market with the styling, interior and exterior. It's too garish, and I don't think a lot of people driving 3ers, A4s, and C-class cars will like it.

Same with the CTS - it's a nice car by all accounts, but I don't think Cadillac is selling them to German car drivers as much as to Cadillac people.
Although the Cadillac forums don't get the traffic you'll find on bimmerfest, you might be surprised at how many converts there are there. This is seen especially on the CTS boards where former E60 owners, like myself, were very disappointed in the barge that the F10 replacement had become.

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  #36  
Old 09-26-2012, 11:47 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alep85 View Post
You're kidding, right? The base F30 interior looks terrible (particularly in beige with the black dash.....just awful).

-First off, the aluminum that's on the base model F30 isn't even real aluminum....it's some kind of composite plastic junk. To me, this crappy plastic trim is a major downgrade from the wood trim on the E90. So either you spend $500 for the wood trim, or you buy one of the "lines" for a few grand.

-I don't mind that BMW's don't have leather standard, but at the prices they're asking, it's a little absurd that they don't. If Audi can do it in the A4, I don't understand why it's so hard for BMW to offer leather standard.



Well, that's your loss, and a very dated viewpoint (would've been true 4-5 years ago). I love BMW's, but I'm not so jaded to think that Cadillac/Infiniti/etc. can make a car just as good. Besides, it's good that companies like Caddy are stepping up to the plate and taking on the 3 series....it makes BMW work that much harder to produce a great sports sedan.
You should check out the options pricing on the ATS before calling out BMW. The base car with the 2.0T has leatherette and leather is not even an option. You have to move up to the 2.0 Luxury package to get leather and this starts at $40,300.00. The Performance version has leather and starts at $42,800. There's a nice credit if you opt for the MT. Think 328i Sportine with leather, Xenons and some lane sensors but no nav or HUD.
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  #37  
Old 09-27-2012, 01:04 PM
MikeTerp MikeTerp is offline
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Well, I think all of us Bimmerphiles would be nuts to dismiss the ATS. I've seen it and sat in it (3.6L Premium) and the interior is nice, if a little tighter than the F30. Styling will always be subjective, so call that a wash. By early accounts, performance seems to be close. In my opinion, the F30 still has the edge (mpg, 8 speed auto, etc), but the ATS is one hell of a good first effort, and there will definitely be people who cross shop the marques and go for the Cadillac. Just like the A4 and G37 draw some buyers, the ATS will too, especially those looking for a comparable car that is "American". Unless the auto mags absolutely trash the ATS in comparisons (which seems unlikely), then Cadillac will go from nothing to a notable player in one jump.
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  #38  
Old 09-27-2012, 01:27 PM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
Just like the A4 and G37 draw some buyers
Off topic...but something makes me think Infiniti is about to do something extremely cool with the G.
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  #39  
Old 09-27-2012, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Off topic...but something makes me think Infiniti is about to do something extremely cool with the G.
Doubtful. Only reason why the G sells is because you can lease one for how much a meal costs at Five Guys. They are as cheap as Accords to lease.
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  #40  
Old 09-27-2012, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsbuc View Post
Although the Cadillac forums don't get the traffic you'll find on bimmerfest, you might be surprised at how many converts there are there. This is seen especially on the CTS boards where former E60 owners, like myself, were very disappointed in the barge that the F10 replacement had become.

.
I'll be looking at it closer in a couple of years - no way I'm going with the new 5 having driven one - it was gutless in anything other than Sport+ mode I thought.. nicely appointed, but I got back into my E60 and within a couple of minutes I knew I wasn't imagining it - the E60 535i was just a much more "fun" car to drive... at least in my opinion.
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  #41  
Old 09-27-2012, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wyb View Post
I'll be looking at it closer in a couple of years - no way I'm going with the new 5 having driven one - it was gutless in anything other than Sport+ mode I thought.. nicely appointed, but I got back into my E60 and within a couple of minutes I knew I wasn't imagining it - the E60 535i was just a much more "fun" car to drive... at least in my opinion.
At the time when I wanted to replace the E60, the E90 was too small, too cramped in the back seat, limited in trunk space, too plain in the interior, and to me, just plain ugly. The F30 has answered all those complaints for me. I'm looking forward to a new 3er next April.

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  #42  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Doubtful. Only reason why the G sells is because you can lease one for how much a meal costs at Five Guys. They are as cheap as Accords to lease.
That would be an interesting argument if it were true.
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  #43  
Old 10-01-2012, 01:55 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Doubtful. Only reason why the G sells is because you can lease one for how much a meal costs at Five Guys. They are as cheap as Accords to lease.
I think he's referring to the next generation G series. No doubt it should be a much improved car and is overdue for a complete facelift.
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  #44  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:19 PM
NBG110 NBG110 is offline
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In the end the resale value of a cadillac is crap.....bimmers hold their value
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  #45  
Old 10-06-2012, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NBG110 View Post
In the end the resale value of a cadillac is crap.....bimmers hold their value
Depends which Cadillac CTS can hold there own
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  #46  
Old 10-08-2012, 02:43 PM
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I wish Cadillac would run less silly commercials for this car. Everything else I've read so far indicates this is a legitimate contender in this segment, so great. The CTS was not a car that interested me when I bought my 3, but if I were to buy today, I'd give the ATS at least a whirl.
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  #47  
Old 11-03-2012, 07:43 AM
Q. Senna Q. Senna is offline
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People say that Cadillac's have more standard toys, yet the Cadi doesn't offer Xenons, Rain-Sensing wipers, 18" alloys and a power moonroof as standard. The ATS doesn't offer 19" Alloys, a parking assistant, active cruise control with stop & go, power rear sunshade, manual rear-window sunshades (which if you have children are AMAZING), a hands free trunk, heated rear seats, speed limit information, variable sport steering, automatic high beams, side view cameras, top view cameras, a 12gig music register, a real-time HP/lb.ft display, 3 more cu.ft trunk space, more cabin room all around, more speakers, a bigger display, a much better premium audio option, a better corrosion warranty, a better standard vehicle warranty and higher maintenance intervals (7.5k vs 15k). It isn't as fuel efficient, has less engine technology, less gears and is less fun to drive (personally). Cadillac has gone to great lengths to make sure they copied as many things as possible that the BMW does to try and make their car as good as a 3 Series, but all that means is that they're still trying to catch up. We have 20+ years of being the best in class along with 58 IEotY awards in the past 14 years and I don't see that stopping any time soon.

/end rant

Last edited by Q. Senna; 11-03-2012 at 07:45 AM.
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  #48  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:51 AM
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Mein Auto:
You would justifying buying a BMW even if it finish last, right? There are intrinsic values in a BMW vs a Caddy. What is more important to you?

Would you rather visit the factory, BMW 335i Munich, Germany or Caddy ATS: Lansing, Michigan
Would you rather go to BMW Museum, Munich, Germany or Cadillac in Warren, MI?
Would you want to join the BMW club or Cadilliac club?
How about the tagline "The Ultimate Driving Machine" or "Mark of Leadership"

I can go on and on. BMW has a history of building driving machines. If you like it, why switch to Caddy that symbolizes and builds a car for your grandpa?
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Last edited by Dave 330i; 11-03-2012 at 09:55 AM.
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  #49  
Old 11-03-2012, 10:07 AM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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Originally Posted by Dave 330i View Post
why switch to Caddy that symbolizes and builds a car for your grandpa?
This is the main problem for GM, and i don't think the perception will go away in our lifetimes. Say what you want; the cars are great but the Cadillac brand is a liability against what they are trying to do right now.

IMO, they should have introduced a new brand (like Lexus 20 years ago) and made that their new luxury performance line.
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  #50  
Old 11-03-2012, 10:54 AM
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The reason Toyota spawned the Lexus brand was so that the high end luxury cars didn't have to share a showroom with Corollas and pickup trucks. Cadillac is already separate from Chevrolet, so there's no need for a new brand name. Time will take care of perceptions, as long as they keep building quality cars. BMWs current reputation with the non-enthusiast started with the yuppies and E30, and then moved up the chain as the aging yuppies bought bigger and more expensive models - first the E34 and E39, then on to the E60. The CTS is already a good car, and if the ATS sells well, eventually people will be ready for an top end model.
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