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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 09-23-2012, 09:12 AM
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Why is the 5 so expensive

I keep coming back to the 5 as a replacement for my aging RL. Yet even a small smattering of options, puts a 535xi in the 65k to 70k plus range. That's the same as a new S6. While I have a new found respect for BMW, after attending their performance driving school, their option packages are excessive.
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  #2  
Old 09-23-2012, 09:22 AM
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I agree, however, the market has responded and they sell them around invoice, sometimes prior to negotiating, which is more reasonable.
  #3  
Old 09-23-2012, 09:34 AM
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Products are priced in two ways. First, it has to make a profit, or will lead to a profit, otherwise it does not pay to produce. Next, it is priced to the market. If the market is willing to pay the price for the product, the product is well priced.

You can get a car with the basic attributes of a 5er for half the price, similar size, carrying capacity, etc.

Same with jeans. You can spend anywhere from $10 to a couple of hundred dollars for jeans.

So why does BMW charge so much for the 5? Because they can.
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  #4  
Old 09-23-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
Products are priced in two ways. First, it has to make a profit, or will lead to a profit, otherwise it does not pay to produce. Next, it is priced to the market. If the market is willing to pay the price for the product, the product is well priced.

You can get a car with the basic attributes of a 5er for half the price, similar size, carrying capacity, etc.

Same with jeans. You can spend anywhere from $10 to a couple of hundred dollars for jeans.

So why does BMW charge so much for the 5? Because they can.
O.K. Well said.
  #5  
Old 09-23-2012, 10:13 AM
Raddius Raddius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kssod View Post
I keep coming back to the 5 as a replacement for my aging RL. Yet even a small smattering of options, puts a 535xi in the 65k to 70k plus range. That's the same as a new S6. While I have a new found respect for BMW, after attending their performance driving school, their option packages are excessive.
One strat is to buy packages when you want enough of the included options to realize a savings. If not, cherry-pick the options you want and add them separately. BMW is very good about ordering exactly what you want if they're unable to find it.

Also, know the invoice price of the car/options when you go in to the dealer (cars.com will let you config the car and see invoice and MSRP pricing). You can work a pretty amazing deal off sticker.
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  #6  
Old 09-23-2012, 10:27 AM
kssod kssod is offline
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there were some great deals on leftover 2012 as long as you like black interior, and no sport options. Now, the 2013 are basically a grand off sticker. There are no content discounts yet like on the 12, ($2500), or conquest etc. Small market, cleveland area will need to wait.
  #7  
Old 09-23-2012, 10:38 AM
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Fortunately, I am on the opposite side of the spectrum. I prefer a car solely for its driving dynamics. Yes, I will pay for the handling and performance packages, but not the convenience and premium packages.
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  #8  
Old 09-23-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kssod View Post
I keep coming back to the 5 as a replacement for my aging RL. Yet even a small smattering of options, puts a 535xi in the 65k to 70k plus range. That's the same as a new S6. While I have a new found respect for BMW, after attending their performance driving school, their option packages are excessive.
Expensive compare to what? the RL?? They are in two difference class of cars. I would say a $70K 535xi is almost loaded and not a small smattering of options. One can get a 2012 535xi now for about $10K off, thats $60K or so for a loaded 535xi, not a bad deal compare to the $80000 S6 which has no discount.
  #9  
Old 09-23-2012, 12:01 PM
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You are not getting the same thing compared to. Honda.

If you take the time to look past the paint you will see why.

If you still don't know why stick with a Honda.
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  #10  
Old 09-23-2012, 12:12 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
Products are priced in two ways. First, it has to make a profit, or will lead to a profit, otherwise it does not pay to produce. Next, it is priced to the market. If the market is willing to pay the price for the product, the product is well priced.

You can get a car with the basic attributes of a 5er for half the price, similar size, carrying capacity, etc.

Same with jeans. You can spend anywhere from $10 to a couple of hundred dollars for jeans.

So why does BMW charge so much for the 5? Because they can.
Not quite the point. The F10 is also expensive compared to A6 and E class as well, direct competitors.
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  #11  
Old 09-23-2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Not quite the point. The F10 is also expensive compared to A6 and E class as well, direct competitors.
That is exactly the point.

The market, thus far, is allowing it. If 5s were sitting on lots and not getting ordered while A6s and Es were walking out the door, BMW would adjust to the market.
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  #12  
Old 09-23-2012, 01:02 PM
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If anyones on crack its audi the s6 loaded is like 87k I can load up a 550x for about 83800 (not including negotiation).
  #13  
Old 09-23-2012, 01:08 PM
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It's expensive because it can be. BMW has the cachet and prestige to command such prices and they have no problem selling them. Of course, no one is actually paying MSRP on BMWs. It makes it look like you're getting a fantastic deal when the dealer chops off $10k.

But I do think that BMW needs to lower prices because the whole "chopping thousands off sticker" is getting old and annoying. It kills future resale for those who finance, like me. Audi and Lexus don't resort to $10k off sticker deals to move inventory. Try asking the Lexus or Audi dealer for $10k off a Q7 or RX. They would tell you to get out. The BMW dealer would probably sell the X5 to you for close that amount

Last edited by AutoUnion; 09-23-2012 at 01:18 PM.
  #14  
Old 09-23-2012, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
It's expensive because it can be. BMW has the cachet and prestige to command such prices and they have no problem selling them. Of course, no one is actually paying MSRP on BMWs. It makes it look like you're getting a fantastic deal when the dealer chops off $10k.
my grandma does she picks a color and they drop it at her house, she strokes a check.
  #15  
Old 09-23-2012, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
my grandma does she picks a color and they drop it at her house, she strokes a check.
Man, I feel sorry for her then. It's pure profit for the dealer. Even at thousands below invoice on a F10, dealers make profit
  #16  
Old 09-23-2012, 01:56 PM
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Let's be frank - the 5 series is a rip-off for what you get.

The only reason they get away with charging these ridiculous prices are:
- Many people will rather have a car with few options but a BMW badge rather than a loaded Audi or Lexus (snob buyers)
- Some people are so obsessed with BMWs historical reputation for handling that they won't even cross shop competition (drone buyers)
- Some people are completely uncompromising and buy what they consider the best at any price (Mugs)

I know these labels are condescending, but in the spirit of brutal honesty I would admit I fall into one of them.

A sensible person would buy an Audi A6 or a Lexus GS350 instead of a 535i. But we aren't making a sensible choice here. We are making an emotional one. Which is why I drive an M5.
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  #17  
Old 09-23-2012, 01:56 PM
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Let's be frank - the 5 series is a rip-off for what you get.

The only reason they get away with charging these ridiculous prices are:
- Many people will rather have a car with few options but a BMW badge rather than a loaded Audi or Lexus (snob buyers)
- Some people are so obsessed with BMWs historical reputation for handling that they won't even cross shop competition (drone buyers)
- Some people are completely uncompromising and buy what they consider the best at any price (Mugs)

I know these labels are condescending, but in the spirit of brutal honesty I would admit I fall into one of them.

A sensible person would buy an Audi A6 or a Lexus GS350 instead of a 535i. But we aren't making a sensible choice here. We are making an emotional one. Which is why I drive an M5.
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  #18  
Old 09-23-2012, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
That is exactly the point.

The market, thus far, is allowing it. If 5s were sitting on lots and not getting ordered while A6s and Es were walking out the door, BMW would adjust to the market.
Your point was that you can buy an Accord instead of a 5. Or Levi's instead of Lucky Jeans. My point is that the 5 is still expensive relative to its class. Sure the market bears it ... By demanding and getting aggressive leases and discounts from MSRP.
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  #19  
Old 09-23-2012, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Let's be frank - the 5 series is a rip-off for what you get.

The only reason they get away with charging these ridiculous prices are:
- Many people will rather have a car with few options but a BMW badge rather than a loaded Audi or Lexus (snob buyers)
- Some people are so obsessed with BMWs historical reputation for handling that they won't even cross shop competition (drone buyers)
- Some people are completely uncompromising and buy what they consider the best at any price (Mugs)

I know these labels are condescending, but in the spirit of brutal honesty I would admit I fall into one of them.

A sensible person would buy an Audi A6 or a Lexus GS350 instead of a 535i. But we aren't making a sensible choice here. We are making an emotional one. Which is why I drive an M5.
The man gets it
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
  #20  
Old 09-23-2012, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Let's be frank - the 5 series is a rip-off for what you get.

The only reason they get away with charging these ridiculous prices are:
- Many people will rather have a car with few options but a BMW badge rather than a loaded Audi or Lexus (snob buyers)
- Some people are so obsessed with BMWs historical reputation for handling that they won't even cross shop competition (drone buyers)
- Some people are completely uncompromising and buy what they consider the best at any price (Mugs)

I know these labels are condescending, but in the spirit of brutal honesty I would admit I fall into one of them.

A sensible person would buy an Audi A6 or a Lexus GS350 instead of a 535i. But we aren't making a sensible choice here. We are making an emotional one. Which is why I drive an M5.
The man gets it
Yeah, but I'll bet most everyone here considers themselves Mugs.
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  #21  
Old 09-23-2012, 03:24 PM
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While I definitely agree with the not-a-Honda/emotional decision/"yes we're getting ripped off but who cares" camp, I would also say that BMW discounts at the table whereas Audi is pretty straightforward about pricing...you're paying the sticker and if not, well, piss off.

I still haven't decided whose pricing strategy I like better.
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  #22  
Old 09-23-2012, 04:11 PM
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This is an emotional subject and I thought twice before I decided to post anything. For me I like the BMW ethos. I like the way their designers think and the way the cars, in general, drive. I have owned MB and Jaguar. I have never owned an Audi and Lexus. I have driven them, (going to the effort of driving them for extended periods of time) and I do not like them.

Is the 5 expensive? Yes it is. A current well equipped 528i today is more expensive than a 2002 540i sport (manual with everything). Is this inflation, is BMW ripping us off? I have no real clue. However I do know I do not like Lexus (too fussy interiors, characterless) and I do not like Audi (generic appearance, fussy interiors - I am a minimalist etc.). But this is my opinion. As my wife knows, I drive cars, lots of cars, and BMWs make me smile. I love them. Even this new 528i which has its little 4 cylinder engine and funny feeling electric steering. I love the damn thing! As I said it is emotional. Any rational analysis would make the likes of BMW an eccentric anachronism and we would all be driving Hondas or Toyotas.

I suspect I am a mug, but then I do not really care. I drive what I like. BTW I try to buy towards the end of the model year and get the best deal I can. However my pending X1 buy is based on a need, sort of, still I am only paying invoice. So I reduce my exposure, but do not eliminate, the rip off factor when buying a BMW.
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  #23  
Old 09-23-2012, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
It kills future resale for those who finance, like me. Audi and Lexus don't resort to $10k off sticker deals to move inventory.
Dude, what are you talking about?? Lexus and Audi will both take 10k off sticker or more! It just depends on the model.

See attached for:

13k off a new 2013 Audi A8

5k-10k+ off 2012 Lexus models
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  #24  
Old 09-23-2012, 04:50 PM
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I strongly considered the A6.
The A6 would have costed me more because the dealer wouldnt budge, but if it had a bimmer badge I would have bought it anyway .
  #25  
Old 09-23-2012, 05:32 PM
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Yeah, but I'll bet most everyone here considers themselves Mugs.
Mug here holding a mug of jack and diet lemonade snapple and tea
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