Keeping Your 3 Series Origami Top in Tip Top Shape

Submariner,

Thanks for the tip and I will bring this print out with me today and perhaps they can follow the instruction to fic the problem.

Got the car back today and dealer did not perform any adjustment to the top, all they did was applied the Wurth silicone gel stick on rubbers and that seems to resolve the squeaky noise, anyone out there have had experience with this brand Wurth from Germany? I did a search online and most stores will not ship them to California.

Originally Posted by 1zamboni

Got the car back today and dealer did not perform any adjustment to the top, all they did was applied the Wurth silicone gel stick on rubbers and that seems to resolve the squeaky noise, anyone out there have had experience with this brand Wurth from Germany? I did a search online and most stores will not ship them to California.

Well, thats a tad disappointing. I believe that the lube to the seals is just a temporary solution to the problem I use Gummy Pledge and that stops the squeaks and rattles for a few days at most - then its ba-ack!

I was hoping for a mechanical solution to the problem. I will let you know when I get my car back. I was hoping to hand it in this Saturday but they don't receive cars on the weekends except for oil changes - so its Monday.

PS you can order the Wurth Gel from autopia http://www.autopia-carcare.com/w-8930128.html I just ordered shipped to NJ. Use coupon code aucoupon for 15% off

UPDATE: arg! Autopia canceled my order - cant ship it to NJ. Will ship it to a friend in PA instead...

Well today my E93 was in for a rattling noise detected on the front drivers side where the hardtop meets the windscreen roof. Previously I tried gummy pledge and lubricated generously in that area. It helped somewhat but the rattle would return after a few days driving me crazy. I do seem to recall that the rattling started soon after I drove over one of New York City's finest potholes that jarred my teeth filings...which made me believe that it wasn't lubricant that would fix it but rather something 'came loose' or was jolted out of place. Anyway that was my theory.

I dropped off my car yesterday and I enclosed a printout of what I found on the net regarding this problem (see my prior post which has the link).

The tech guy took the car for a drive and detected the rattle immediately (thank god). He initiated a work order for Bulletin SIB 54 12 07. He placed some spacers or washers as per bulletin. He drove it again and the noise was reduced but not completely gone. He installed another spacer and the noise was completely gone this time (thank god for his attention to detail!)

Noise free yay!

Nevertheless I have placed an order for the Whurl rubber gel which I will use for lubricating...
Let's see how it progresses in the coming weeks. Anyway, just thought I would share

Kat and fun2drive,

So I had a top that was intermittently stopping in the middle of the cycle, but only once or twice a year and only if the top hadn/t been used for a long time ie. winter. The last month it got more and more problematic. Finally two weeks ago in the up position it would disconnect all the sections and would not stack. Before that I had read this sticky on lubrication and followed it hopeing that was the problem, no dice. Mine is an 2007 with 25K miles and maybe 40-50 total retracts.

So took it to Seattle BMW and ithe problem ended up being the relay that controls the power to the hydralic pump. That explains the symtoms, with relay contacts slowly burning out. It was 4 hours of labor to take the trunk apart to get at the relays. They were real nice and only charged me for 3 hours and I walked out only $500 poorer. Hopefully this is not a sign of things to come.

Boeing Engineer(eastside328)

Originally Posted by eastside328

Kat and fun2drive,

So I had a top that was intermittently stopping in the middle of the cycle, but only once or twice a year and only if the top hadn/t been used for a long time ie. winter. The last month it got more and more problematic. Finally two weeks ago in the up position it would disconnect all the sections and would not stack. Before that I had read this sticky on lubrication and followed it hopeing that was the problem, no dice. Mine is an 2007 with 25K miles and maybe 40-50 total retracts.

So took it to Seattle BMW and ithe problem ended up being the relay that controls the power to the hydralic pump. That explains the symtoms, with relay contacts slowly burning out. It was 4 hours of labor to take the trunk apart to get at the relays. They were real nice and only charged me for 3 hours and I walked out only $500 poorer. Hopefully this is not a sign of things to come.

Boeing Engineer(eastside328)

I've not had relay failures, but I had a hinge issue that effectively resulted in the same lack of top functioning. IIRC CalWB and Kash have both had relay issues. You are completely right that all the lubrication on the planet will not help if there is a fundamental electrical issue. Maybe we need to start an E93 database of electrical/mechanical issues thread to help people understand the difference between squeaks and rattles and mechanical failures. Bottom line is that anyone who signs up for an E93 needs to fundamentally understand that its care and feeding is above and beyond that of an E90, 91 or 92 due to the extra number of moving parts.

Just wanted to throw out a new topic out here:

What does one do with regards to the maintenance of the hardtop hydraulics for the E93. I am referring to that hydraulic gizmo pump thingy that is under the trunk carpet....

Is there hydraulic fluid one should check to ensure that it is adequately filled?

Just throwing the question out there asking if any maintenance checks etc needs to be done on this piece of machinery...

Originally Posted by Submariner

Just wanted to throw out a new topic out here:

What does one do with regards to the maintenance of the hardtop hydraulics for the E93. I am referring to that hydraulic gizmo pump thingy that is under the trunk carpet....

Is there hydraulic fluid one should check to ensure that it is adequately filled?

Just throwing the question out there asking if any maintenance checks etc needs to be done on this piece of machinery...

I believe there is a fill level on the fluid reservoir. The fluid should definitely be at the proper level. If you have a leak, then time for a visit to the dealer to find the leak and fix it.

The E46 uses electro hydraulics and I have not heard much about issues so I would assume we will be following them regarding reliability...

Does anybody have any information on how to make the seals last longer other than just using the rubber protectants? I'm in particluar talking about when you have the car in your garage. When the top is in the up and locked position it is crushing those gaskets when there is no need (ie not raining). I wonder if it is smart to leave the top just barely into the retract cycle ie with the front disconnected but resting on the windshield and the center seam barely seperated. I wonder if that can cause other problems in the future on other hardware. I would think not. It does take the pressure off most of the seals though. Just the part cost on one of the 3 seals is about $500 without labor.

Many ragtop owners unlatch the front of thier tops to take the tension off the fabric and seals when in the garage. I wonder if the situation I mentioned above is the E93 version of that?

When the power relay went out on my top, it would completely unlatch and then not lift. I would think in the garage this would be a good rest position. To replace those seals is expensive. Any thoughts?

I agree that we need to extend this sticky to include electro/mechanical failures or start a new sticky.

Originally Posted by eastside328

Does anybody have any information on how to make the seals last longer other than just using the rubber protectants? I'm in particluar talking about when you have the car in your garage. When the top is in the up and locked position it is crushing those gaskets when there is no need (ie not raining).

The same is true for door frame seals and trunk seals. All spend a lot more time closed than open--even more so than the top. Given regular care, none of those collapse from spending more time crushed than expanded. The top seals should be no different: Opening the top periodically to lubricate/protect the seals should be more than sufficient to keep them from taking a "set."

BMW uses rubber gaskets not synthetic. Evenually they will shrink and there is nothing you can do about it but keep the seals plyable. I have had a number of BMW convertibles and each and every one will eventually leak from the front seal to the windshield from the rubber shrinking.
This can take a long time however and I think the sun beating down on the rubber accelerates that process because I have never replaced seals that were protected by the sun. I don't think keeping the top closed in the garage is going to hurt anything actually. Better to have the top down then in some popped up where the load on the hinges and hydraulics is there for however long you leave it in the garage...

Originally Posted by Zeichen311

The same is true for door frame seals and trunk seals. All spend a lot more time closed than open--even more so than the top. Given regular care, none of those collapse from spending more time crushed than expanded. The top seals should be no different: Opening the top periodically to lubricate/protect the seals should be more than sufficient to keep them from taking a "set."

Originally Posted by fun2drive

BMW uses rubber gaskets not synthetic. Evenually they will shrink and there is nothing you can do about it but keep the seals plyable. I have had a number of BMW convertibles and each and every one will eventually leak from the front seal to the windshield from the rubber shrinking.
This can take a long time however and I think the sun beating down on the rubber accelerates that process because I have never replaced seals that were protected by the sun. I don't think keeping the top closed in the garage is going to hurt anything actually. Better to have the top down then in some popped up where the load on the hinges and hydraulics is there for however long you leave it in the garage...

Two separate concepts on the same issue. It would be really nice for BMW to provide guidance. Until then, it is probably best practice to keep the seals 'conditioned' (even for E90/1/2 cars).

@eastside328: there's a 2001 Chrysler Sebring convertible in my garage that leaks a little oil from the motor but not a drop of water through the top. It's been my wife's daily driver for the past eight years. I don't think there's much to worry about unless BMW is using inferior seals to Chrysler.

Wow...the world needs more people like you Kat. Thanks a million for the info. I just got myself a 328i Convertible for my birthday last week. And now, I made the decision to never buy any other car except for BMW for the rest of my life. It took only one day of driving to spoil me rotten...

Matreyia

Originally Posted by Zeichen311

The same is true for door frame seals and trunk seals. All spend a lot more time closed than open--even more so than the top. Given regular care, none of those collapse from spending more time crushed than expanded. The top seals should be no different: Opening the top periodically to lubricate/protect the seals should be more than sufficient to keep them from taking a "set."

Originally Posted by fun2drive

BMW uses rubber gaskets not synthetic. Evenually they will shrink and there is nothing you can do about it but keep the seals plyable. I have had a number of BMW convertibles and each and every one will eventually leak from the front seal to the windshield from the rubber shrinking.
This can take a long time however and I think the sun beating down on the rubber accelerates that process because I have never replaced seals that were protected by the sun. I don't think keeping the top closed in the garage is going to hurt anything actually. Better to have the top down then in some popped up where the load on the hinges and hydraulics is there for however long you leave it in the garage...

Originally Posted by gpburdell

@eastside328: there's a 2001 Chrysler Sebring convertible in my garage that leaks a little oil from the motor but not a drop of water through the top. It's been my wife's daily driver for the past eight years. I don't think there's much to worry about unless BMW is using inferior seals to Chrysler.

If I had to choose which part of the system to stress, it definitely would NOT be the hinges, cantilevered arms, and hydraulics that are the fundamental mechanics of the origami top. Putting a little stress on rubber seals that are designed to seal, but then keeping them as pliable as possible with regular feeding is to me a no brainer. If you have ever seriously studied the folding top in motion and then seen photos of it failing, it is evident that the 3.5 cm wide strut that connects the frontmost part of the top to the midsection is probably the most vulnerable to failure component. Every, and I mean every single time I actuate my top this is the area I am watching. Yes, I care about the seals and making sure they seal, but this I have some control over and they are a fixed part of the system. What makes the E93 top different from previous "ragtops" is that rigid exterior strut, and all the interior magnets that must be actively engaged for the electronics of the car to register as "all good". My fear in leaving the front most latches disengaged is that it would play havoc with the electronics of the rest of the car. We already know that not having the magnetic latches on the top support in the trunk sets off warnings. Turning off the car without the top fully engaged at its cowl connects just spells trouble.

Originally Posted by matreyia

Wow...the world needs more people like you Kat. Thanks a million for the info. I just got myself a 328i Convertible for my birthday last week. And now, I made the decision to never buy any other car except for BMW for the rest of my life. It took only one day of driving to spoil me rotten...

Matreyia

Thanks Matreyia. Any time somebody benefits from the info here, it makes doing it all worth while.

Kat & Fun2drive,

Followed your instruction and still having problem with top rattle & squeaky noise when the car is on rough surface, the car has been back to the shop five times and deaker could not fix the problem it absolute drove me insane, what is my other option to fix this problem? Current mileague is 2800 miles.
Your reply would be greatly appreciated.

It is time to seek out another dealer.
There is no reason the top should have an issue like that.
It would help us to help you to tell us the location of the noise sources.
I know Kat has some information regarding corrections to the front windshield area.

Totally serious about locating another dealer. Has the dealer acknowledged the noise? If so try another dealer and if that doesn't work raise the bar and request BMWNA get involved politely through your dealer.
Hope this helps and please tell us the noise location(s)...

zamboni

I'd definitely seek out another dealer and ask them to perform the SIB 54 12 07 that was done on my car. All rattles, squeaks gone... None of these lube jobs that yours seems to do.

Fun2drive @ Submariner,

Thanks for the advise and I will visit another dealer and ask for their second opnion, I had an open case with BMWNA and await for the feld engineer to come out and exam the vehicle along with my local dealer.

The main noise is right at upper corner on driver side window much noticeable and other one is from righr rear passenger top, I requested my dealer and see if they have perform the washer on the latch area and they simple replied it won't be necessary, they indicated the SB was a couple of years old and BMW had implement that already when the car was built, how can you tell if this has been install on your vehicle?

I think your dealer need to show PROOF that this isn't required. Frankly I would NEVER darken their door and take the SI to another dealer and explain the issue. Waiting for BMWNA to take action is your choice but for some reason these guys seem to be obstructing the repair of the car. Lubing isn't going to solve a clearance issue which does happen tolerances open up at times...

How can I keep my windows clean? no matter how clean the windows after a nice carwash, once you roll the window down and back up it comes up dirty with STREAKS on it all white...how can I fix that?

Originally Posted by 1zamboni

Fun2drive @ Submariner,

Thanks for the advise and I will visit another dealer and ask for their second opnion, I had an open case with BMWNA and await for the feld engineer to come out and exam the vehicle along with my local dealer.

The main noise is right at upper corner on driver side window much noticeable and other one is from righr rear passenger top, I requested my dealer and see if they have perform the washer on the latch area and they simple replied it won't be necessary, they indicated the SB was a couple of years old and BMW had implement that already when the car was built, how can you tell if this has been install on your vehicle?

how do you add your car picture on your profile? I try but can't seems to see how to..please help...

Originally Posted by THE HAITIANMAN

How can I keep my windows clean? no matter how clean the windows after a nice carwash, once you roll the window down and back up it comes up dirty with STREAKS on it all white...how can I fix that?

The only way to prevent streaks when rolling down your window is to wait until the car dries completely which will take a few hours. Depending on the humidity it may even take a day or two.

To add pictures go to user CP control panel and then go to setting and options, then go to edit avatar. Use custom avatar and upload an image. Hope that helps