Uh-Oh...First 3 Series versus ATS Comparison Test

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

In what way? Please elaborate? It costs less, has a better chassis, better steering and handling...How did it fail?

Better according to who? The ultimate test driver is you. The buyer. Not some dumbass in MT who can't figure out how to shift right in a manual car so he trashes it.

Originally Posted by windsor027

Better according to who? The ultimate test driver is you. The buyer. Not some dumbass in MT who can't figure out how to shift right in a manual car so he trashes it.

Agreed. It was according to MT, which doesn't mean it is the case however I think this car is an epic success for GM and it is not a failure, at least when compared to the F30.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I'm afraid that's a little too much to hope for. The driving event I attended was for the CTS-V. It is VERY good.It competes with the ///M5.

I was about to jump in on this comment before I read your response. The CTS-V would clean the 335i's clock.

Originally Posted by windsor027

Better according to who? The ultimate test driver is you. The buyer. Not some dumbass in MT who can't figure out how to shift right in a manual car so he trashes it.

Exactly, I reserve my judgment after I test drive a 3.6. However reading others can offer knowledge as well.

I have not read ATS's lighter steering until now. It is one data point. Like one data point who said he had to slam the manual in the ATS in 4th gear at 55mph during the 0-60 run. All data require verification. But if enough people complain, the issue is more verified.

As far as 335i beating a CTS-V, whoever you are is a perfect example of a 3 driver fantasizing being a performance car driver, while never have driven in performance contests. Fits BJ's description of a 335i driver quite well.

It is embarrassing to see new 3 series lagging behind a 10 year old 325, or a Civic. At least I have some excuse being a 328i with soft suspension. But when the new BMW turbo I6s (not just one) with aftermarket tunes lag behind, you begin to ask, what happened to the ultimate driving machine?

Originally Posted by dtc100

Exactly, I reserve my judgment after I test drive a 3.6. However reading others can offer knowledge as well.

I have not read ATS's lighter steering until now. It is one data point. Like one data point who said he had to slam the manual in the ATS in 4th gear at 55mph during the 0-60 run. All data require verification. But if enough people complain, the issue is more verified.

As far as 335i beating a CTS-V, whoever you are is a perfect example of a 3 driver fantasizing being a performance car driver, while never have driven in performance contests. Fits BJ's description of a 335i driver quite well.

It is embarrassing to see new 3 series lagging behind a 10 year old 325, or a Civic. At least I have some excuse being a 328i with soft suspension. But when the new BMW turbo I6s (not just one) with aftermarket tunes lag behind, you begin to ask, what happened to the ultimate driving machine?

Ok i will admit I kinda jumped the gun with the cts-v vs 335i but if I was to use YOUR track time formula its really close. I looked up the Nürburgring and the CTS-V ran a 7:59 and a e92 335i ran 8:26, the f30 suppose to be faster than e92.

I am still trying to figure out what u mean by lagging behind a 325 or civic? are u talking about AutoX???

by the way have you test driven the f30 335i sport as yet?

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

In what way? Please elaborate? It costs less, has a better chassis, better steering and handling...How did it fail?

The expert in the Motor Trend video review said that the F30 won and the ATS lost.

That's that. Game over.

BJ

Originally Posted by dtc100

It is embarrassing to see new 3 series lagging behind a 10 year old 325, or a Civic. At least I have some excuse being a 328i with soft suspension. But when the new BMW turbo I6s (not just one) with aftermarket tunes lag behind, you begin to ask, what happened to the ultimate driving machine?

The F30 lags behind a 325 and a Civic. you actually wrote this with a straight face? Seriously?

I do agree the poster that said the CTS-V will get beaten around a track by the 335i is way out of line. Never driven a CTS-V but with that power, bremo brakes, magnetic suspension, and the times it has done at the Nürburgring, I don't need to drive it.

However you and I both need to drive the new ATS 3.6 to offer an opinion on how well it takes on the 335i. And no since it seems performance wise both cars are close we should not take the word of some auto journalist.

Again I have no idea why you hate the F30 platform so much because IMO, having owned a E90 I think the F30 beats it in every way, except maybe steering feel BUT once again you can get that back 95% with the dynamic handling package and/or Sportline set in sport or sport +.

BTW on our other argument, I have asked 3 people that have the Sportline model and they all said if you put it in sport + and then press the DSC for 3 seconds (the button is right in front of the switch for the different modes) the TC will turn off completely. Again unlike you taking the word of other people, i will comment on this after i get my car.

Originally Posted by ric124

I could probably bet that a 335i would beat a CTS-V on a race course not Drag or Nascar but a real race course or AutoX.

No. The thing is with GM, when they build a specialty car, like the CTS-V or the Camaro ZL1, they aren't hampered by the usual GM bureaucracy, and they build a really good car.

The Camaro ZL1 is vastly better than the regular Camaro V8, which is kinda crappy on a race track. Same with the CTS-V.

I'm expecting the same of the ATS-V, it will likely rival the M3, if not beat it.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

The expert in the Motor Trend video review said that the F30 won and the ATS lost.

That's that. Game over.

BJ

They said the ATS lost because of its manual transmission. They also said it had better steering, chassis and handling....OUCH!!!

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

They said the ATS lost because of its manual transmission. They also said it had better steering, chassis and handling....OUCH!!!

Dude, I owned your 2009 E90 and it handles like a bread truck compared to the F30.

Notice how the only BMW owners that give a sh-t about the Cadillac ATS are the ones who are stuck in the old model, the dog between the E46 and the F30? Imagine that.

BJ

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Yes, the F30, too. Even in Comfort the F30 steering is firmer than the ATS and, thankfully, in Sport the steering effort firms up nicely. btw - the steering effort and road feel of the F30 in Sport feels very similar to the Active Steering in my E90. The F30 EPS is not bad as so many of you guys make it out to be. It is just different.

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

You will hate the F30 steering then.

Looks like you missed reading my previous post.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Dude, I owned your 2009 E90 and it handles like a bread truck compared to the F30.

Notice how the only BMW owners that give a sh-t about the Cadillac ATS are the ones who are stuck in the old model, the dog between the E46 and the F30? Imagine that.

BJ

That is your opinion, unfortunately its far from the reality.

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

They said the ATS lost because of its manual transmission. They also said it had better steering, chassis and handling....OUCH!!!

Have you driven an ATS?

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Dude, I owned your 2009 E90 and it handles like a bread truck compared to the F30.

Notice how the only BMW owners that give a sh-t about the Cadillac ATS are the ones who are stuck in the old model, the dog between the E46 and the F30? Imagine that.

BJ

BJ, statements like this undermine any credibility you have when you are not being satirical.

Originally Posted by Chris90

No. The thing is with GM, when they build a specialty car, like the CTS-V or the Camaro ZL1, they aren't hampered by the usual GM bureaucracy, and they build a really good car.

The Camaro ZL1 is vastly better than the regular Camaro V8, which is kinda crappy on a race track. Same with the CTS-V.

I'm expecting the same of the ATS-V, it will likely rival the M3, if not beat it.

Makes sense, cant argue with that.

I also think it may rival or beat the e92 m3 but only time will tell how the new f82 will perform.

The game is far from over. The game has just begun and it appears that Cadillac has come up with a much better car than most people suspected they would.

Reviews like Motor Trend, Car and Driver, etc. can only be used as a guide. When two cars are as close as the ATS and the F30 in the opinion of the reviewers you will have to drive them both yourself and come to your own conclusions.

Of course this is a BMW forum and the reaction to a comparo will usually result in it being treated as gospel when good things are said about BMW and the reviewer being called an incompetant idiot when he says something bad about BMW.

I am not taking anybody's word on which car is better until I have a chance to drive both which is unlikely to happen in the forseeable future.

CA

Originally Posted by tturedraider

BJ, statements like this undermine any credibility you have when you are not being satirical.

I'm sorry, but I owned both cars, have you?

I'm getting a bit tired of the handful of E90 owners who think that by reading a few reviews and listening to each other speak that they know anything at all about the F30. You guys want to hold onto your used status-symbols and compete with hand-me-down school students for attention, that's cool. Go do it over in your forum. We don't need E90 owners sh-tting on our cars 24/7, acting like some idiotic GM product could spell doom for the 3 Series brand because they hold some grudge against BMW.

I get the fact that the E9X forum has been overrun by high school kids and their used car questions and that all the adults are over here now, but that doesn't mean we appreciate multiple threads on our board telling us how stupid we are for buying cars that are less than a few months old.

BJ

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

That is your opinion, unfortunately its far from the reality.

I'm the only one of the two of us who has owned both cars, so I guess I'll be taking my word for it.

Go back to your forum and piss on the F30 over there. You might meet a high school girl in the process, might get some naked pics and everything.

BJ

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Have you driven an ATS?

No.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

I'm the only one of the two of us who has owned both cars, so I guess I'll be taking my word for it.

Go back to your forum and piss on the F30 over there. You might meet a high school girl in the process, might get some naked pics and everything.

BJ

Ok.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

I'm the only one of the two of us who has owned both cars, so I guess I'll be taking my word for it.

Go back to your forum and piss on the F30 over there. You might meet a high school girl in the process, might get some naked pics and everything.

BJ

BJ, it's still OK for you to post in the E90 forum, as we are are welcoming bunch.

Originally Posted by beden1

BJ, it's still OK for you to post in the E90 forum, as we are are welcoming bunch.

I guess its ok for him to post his opinions on the E90 forums, but people who don't own the F30 can't post here? I don't get it.

Originally Posted by beden1

BJ, it's still OK for you to post in the E90 forum, as we are are welcoming bunch.

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

I guess its ok for him to post his opinions on the E90 forums, but people who don't own the F30 can't post here? I don't get it.

I'm active in a single thread whose subject matter specifically asks about opinions of the F30 by E90 owners and those familiar with both cars. For the most part, it's a bunch of my old friends and I having some fun as well as sharing our thoughts on both vehicles.

That's a lot different than multiple threads on the F30 board by people who don't own F30‘s, have no intention of owning F30’s, and want to see the F30 fail. That's not cool.

BJ

Originally Posted by ric124

Ok i will admit I kinda jumped the gun with the cts-v vs 335i but if I was to use YOUR track time formula its really close. I looked up the Nürburgring and the CTS-V ran a 7:59 and a e92 335i ran 8:26, the f30 suppose to be faster than e92.

I am still trying to figure out what u mean by lagging behind a 325 or civic? are u talking about AutoX???

by the way have you test driven the f30 335i sport as yet?

Yes I have, several times. The N54 335i is more connected, faster, and more fun to drive.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Maybe a even better idea is you stay out of this kind discussions, so the voice of many long time BMW 3 drivers can be heard by BMW, without them constantly being reminded how a bunch of BMW drivers are such snobs?

"...so the voice of many long-time 3 Series drivers can be heard by BMW..."

And that, my friends, is the agenda. The Cult Of E90 think that BMW is watching Bimmerfest, scouring threads for feedback. And they think that this forum filled with F30 owners is the place to sh-t all over our cars because....shh....big brother is watching and he's going to use the shrink-ray and restore the 3 Series back to E36 proportions.

dtc: Your agenda is pointless. All it is doing is aggravating otherwise-happy F30 owners. Stop. Stop now. You think you're quest is noble. It isn't. It's just annoying.

BJ