MotorTrend: 328i vs ATS

Originally Posted by dtc100

An example of snobbish behavior is one assumes too much. You have not said anything on topic for awhile now.

Relax babe. I'm sure you will get plenty of more posts in tonight about how awful the F30 is.

My previous car was a CTS and it was one of the worst car I've ever owned. It had an unbelievable amount of problems. I was also told by a Cadillac employee the new touch screen system is still full of bugs they're trying to work out. GM always does what they have to do to look good on paper but in the real world they always under achieve. My new F30 N55 is light years ahead of my CTS

Originally Posted by lowonfuel

My previous car was a CTS and it was one of the worst car I've ever owned. It had an unbelievable amount of problems. I was also told by a Cadillac employee the new touch screen system is still full of bugs they're trying to work out. GM always does what they have to do to look good on paper but in the real world they always under achieve. My new F30 N55 is light years ahead of my CTS

Some posters here refuse to believe cadillac can put out a bad car.

Originally Posted by lowonfuel

My previous car was a CTS and it was one of the worst car I've ever owned. It had an unbelievable amount of problems. I was also told by a Cadillac employee the new touch screen system is still full of bugs they're trying to work out. GM always does what they have to do to look good on paper but in the real world they always under achieve. My new F30 N55 is light years ahead of my CTS

My 335i E93 has been extemely reliable (other than the RFT lousy suspension issue), rattle free, quiet, no HPFP issues or "Fluttering Noise". I realize that this is a sample of one and does not represent the overall relibilty of the model (which from what i have recently read is poor).
However if I had a car with a lot of issues, as you did, that would definetely sour me on the brand.

CA

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Some posters here refuse to believe cadillac can put out a bad car.

I think most of us here realize that Cadillac has put out some horrible cars.

CA

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I think most of us here realize that Cadillac has put out some horrible cars.

CA

I agree, thats why i said some.

Slightly off topic, but i walked into an audi dealer today to check out the new S4, walked around for 5 min, wasn't approached by anyone and walked right out. They did have an R8 GT, damn that car is nice.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Some posters here refuse to believe cadillac can put out a bad car.

Blasphemy.

BJ

Originally Posted by captainaudio

My 335i E93 has been extemely reliable (other than the RFT lousy suspension issue), rattle free, quiet, no HPFP issues or "Fluttering Noise". I realize that this is a sample of one and does not represent the overall relibilty of the model (which from what i have recently read is poor).
However if I had a car with a lot of issues, as you did, that would definetely sour me on the brand.

CA

Where have you read that?

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Relax babe. I'm sure you will get plenty of more posts in tonight about how awful the F30 is.

Thank you for being a loyal follower during the day, now its your bedtime, go check in with BJ.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Thank you for being a loyal follower during the day, now its your bedtime, go check in with BJ.

Unfortunately i have to see your nonsense. I'd put you on ignore but i would still have to see your posts when people quote you Stupid bug in the vBulletin software.

Then again i probably would be trolling the F30 forums too with nonsense if i recently purchased a E90 328i right before it was updated.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Where have you read that?

What has been reported from DJ Power was Cadillac is near the top of the satisfaction list in the luxury segment in the US, above BMW. Although I believe it was more recent survey, don't know their ranking in the years past.

One theory about BMW's poor initial satisfaction rating was the free maintenance service. People might complain more when they bring cars in for free services, and do not get what they think they should get. If true, there is no fear, Cadillac has free service for ATS

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Unfortunately i have to see your nonsense. I'd put you on ignore but i would still have to see your posts when people quote you Stupid bug in the vBulletin software.

You can always not to open this thread, did you realize that? I fear both you and BJ are getting there.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Then again i probably would be trolling the F30 forums too with nonsense if i recently purchased a E90 328i right before it was updated.

You have not been providing anything meaningful at all, other than playing a few other posters' lap dog.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Where have you read that?

Don't remember and could not find it in a Google search. It was fairly recently and I was a bit taken aback to read that a car that I owned had a poor reliability rating. I basically laughed it off since mine has not had any issues,


CA

Edit:

Found the link:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-repairs.html

The fact that they refer to the E93 as a "Soft Top" does not add to their credibility.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Don't remember and could not find it in a Google search. It was fairly recently and I was a bit taken aback to read that a car that I owned had a poor reliability rating. I basically laughed it off since mine has not had any issues,

CA

My 2 E90 N54's never had any issues other than a blown speaker a few times but that was because i listened to the music to loud.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Don't remember and could not find it in a Google search. It was fairly recently and I was a bit taken aback to read that a car that I owned had a poor reliability rating. I basically laughed it off since mine has not had any issues,


CA

Edit:

Found the link:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-repairs.html

The fact that they refer to the E93 as a "Soft Top" does not add to their credibility.

That is one damn good looking E93 though.

Below is the most recent J D Power survey charts:

http://autos.jdpower.com/content/pre...-csi-study.htm

Looks to me ATS will have the potential to pull Cadillac back with the CUE experience Some thing or two they should have learned from Ford.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Don't remember and could not find it in a Google search. It was fairly recently and I was a bit taken aback to read that a car that I owned had a poor reliability rating. I basically laughed it off since mine has not had any issues,


CA

Edit:

Found the link:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-repairs.html

The fact that they refer to the E93 as a "Soft Top" does not add to their credibility.

Yeah, we had some discussion about that in the poor man's, lowly E9x forum. The general consensus was that it was a load of hooey.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Yeah, we had some discussion about that in the poor man's, lowly E9x forum. The general consensus was that it was a load of hooey.

There were quite a few complaints of the leaky convertibles, in fact I recall at least two were lemoned due to the leaks.

Originally Posted by lowonfuel

My previous car was a CTS and it was one of the worst car I've ever owned. It had an unbelievable amount of problems. I was also told by a Cadillac employee the new touch screen system is still full of bugs they're trying to work out. GM always does what they have to do to look good on paper but in the real world they always under achieve. My new F30 N55 is light years ahead of my CTS

I owned a 2006 CTS that other than an alignment issue (dealer problem) ran flawlessly. Great engine and tranny. The more recent models have much better interiors. Despite the childish comments on this forum Cadillac is making the best cars in their history. Keep in mind that 4 years ago GM was nearly out of business and had very limited r and d funding.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

I owned a 2006 CTS that other than an alignment issue (dealer problem) ran flawlessly. Great engine and tranny. The more recent models have much better interiors. Despite the childish comments on this forum Cadillac is making the best cars in their history. Keep in mind that 4 years ago GM was nearly out of business and had very limited r and d funding.

Unfortunately though, this segment is so competitive, making the best car in Caddy's history is not enough, if the best Caddy in the history lags behind other brands.

On the other hand, the new 3 is clearly more refined and consistent in its drivetrain delivery. I think that alone will appeal to a larger audience in this segment, with the caveat that someone who ranks drivetrain refinement at the top of the list, have many brands to choose from. And if driving dynamics or fun factor is your priority, the field narrows significantly.

The initial reviews seem to suggest that BMW is trying to go after that larger audience, Caddy is trying to capture the more enthusiast oriented group. Whether they succeed or not is yet to come.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Caddy is trying to capture the more enthusiast oriented group. Whether they succeed or not is yet to come.

BJ

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

NO.

I have Dyno'd both stock S52 and stock N20's now. I am not talking about paper. The S52 is a bit underrated, the N20 is even more so. I have not seen N52s make S52 numbers at dyno days I have been to.



I have freinds with 6mts and friends who are BMW techs. They drove my car and have had plenty of seat time in N52 manuals. Auto's are pokier of course.

But fact is there is about a full second 0-60 advantage between manual N52 and manual F30. That is huge, about twice the advantage of N20 vs N55.



You can't. For me, if I want that inline 6 sound(plus blower whine), I go to the other side of the garage. The other part of me has always loved small displacement FI. I had a stage 2 VW 2.0 TSI CC with a stick before getting the F30. I love the idea of a slightly more aggressive exhaust note without going overboard on this car. You can make a small 4 cylinder sound good without going overboard or sounding juvenile. I had a Borla on my CC, it sounded excellent.

Let me just say that the E36 M3 sedan is my favorite BMW of all times and it is certainly a lot more capable at the track then the E90 328 or the F30 328. However, if you look at the numbers it is nearly identical to the E90 128 and falls behind the N20. I know dynos vary due to many factors but most stock E36 M3's pull about 210hp 205 trq vs the N52's 200hp 190 trq and N20's 230 hp and 250 trq. Again these will vary depending on the vehicle and dyno type. These numbers are also reflected in the acceleration results:

6 speed 2009 328i
Curb weight: 3352
0-60 5.9 secs
0-100 16.1 secs
0-120 24.9 secs
1/4 mile 14.6 @ 96 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

6 speed 2008 128i
Curb weight 3197
0-60 5.8 secs
0-100 15.7 secs
0-130 mph 31.4 secs
1/4 mile 14.5 @ 96 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test

6 speed F30 328i
Curb weight 3434
0-60 5.6 secs
0-100 14.3 secs
0-130 26.7 secs
1/4 mile 14.3 @ 100 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review

5 speed E36 M3 Coupe
Curb weight 3230
0-60 6.0 secs
0-100 16.0 secs
0-130 33.2 secs
1/4 mile 14.6 @ 95 mph
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...vs.-9-3-Viggen)

The 128 and 328 are nearly identical with the E36 M3. Look how much faster the F30 is, specifically the 1/4 mile trap speed which is a good indication of power.

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

Let me just say that the E36 M3 sedan is my favorite BMW of all times and it is certainly a lot more capable at the track then the E90 328 or the F30 328. However, if you look at the numbers it is nearly identical to the E90 128 and falls behind the N20. I know dynos vary due to many factors but most stock E36 M3's pull about 210hp 205 trq vs the N52's 200hp 190 trq and N20's 230 hp and 250 trq. Again these will vary depending on the vehicle and dyno type. These numbers are also reflected in the acceleration results:

6 speed 2009 328i
Curb weight: 3352
0-60 5.9 secs
0-100 16.1 secs
0-120 24.9 secs
1/4 mile 14.6 @ 96 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

6 speed 2008 128i
Curb weight 3197
0-60 5.8 secs
0-100 15.7 secs
0-130 mph 31.4 secs
1/4 mile 14.5 @ 96 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test

6 speed F30 328i
Curb weight 3434
0-60 5.6 secs
0-100 14.3 secs
0-130 26.7 secs
1/4 mile 14.3 @ 100 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review

5 speed E36 M3 Coupe
Curb weight 3230
0-60 6.0 secs
0-100 16.0 secs
0-130 33.2 secs
1/4 mile 14.6 @ 95 mph
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...vs.-9-3-Viggen)

The 128 and 328 are nearly identical with the E36 M3. Look how much faster the F30 is, specifically the 1/4 mile trap speed which is a good indication of power.

I am fine with what you posted except a more typical time for a 5mt e36 is 14.0 at 99. My car for example even breaks into the 13's stock bitt thats a but unfair. I see plenty of 13 second M3s with little effort. That article is often used as reference by Saab people comparing the Viggen to the E36 because it's pretty much the slowest time found for an E36 lol.

For better sound and performance, I will consider the N20 when the BMW performance exhaust is available installed at the port of entry, and will order DHP. I have pretty much ruled out the ATS 2.0T since I don't see options available to improve the sound. Not going aftermarket route.

That leaves me with only the ATS 3.6L as a contender for "sound proof". Will want LSD option on the ATS too. And of course at that point the 335i will be in the contention, so is the S4.

For now personally there are really no other viable alternatives I can think of. I may still test drive a G37S simply because of its fantastic lease deals, but unless it really impresses me in the driving dynamics and fun department, it will not be a serious option.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

I am fine with what you posted except a more typical time for a 5mt e36 is 14.0 at 99. My car for example even breaks into the 13's stock bitt thats a but unfair. I see plenty of 13 second M3s with little effort. That article is often used as reference by Saab people comparing the Viggen to the E36 because it's pretty much the slowest time found for an E36 lol.

Fair enough. This is by far the fastest time posted for the E36 M3 I have ever seen:

1994 BMW M3 Coupe 5 speed manual
Curb weight 3180
0-60 5.6 secs
0-100 14.9 secs
0-120 23.5 secs
0-130 29.8 secs
1/4 mile 14.3 @ 98 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review

2008 128i
Curb weight 3228
0-60 5.7 secs
1/4 mile 14.4 @ 96.1 mph
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...st_test/?ti=v2

Few years back I used to attend domestic v import events at the local track. I witnessed plenty of E36 M3's running high 14 second to mid 15 seconds 1/4 mile times. Two of my friends owned E36 M3s both with modifications and both running mid 14 second times. Again I am not saying it is not capable of running 13 secs at 1/4 mile with some mods and I am not trying to take anything away from the E36 M3 because it is one of the best sedans ever made. However, I find it a little funny how most people say the N52 is slow when it pretty much matches the E36 M3's acceleration times. On the side note, I am thinking about picking up a E36 M3 as a track toy and keeping the E90 as my daily.

Originally Posted by dtc100

For better sound and performance, I will consider the N20 when the BMW performance exhaust is available installed at the port of entry, and will order DHP. I have pretty much ruled out the ATS 2.0T since I don't see options available to improve the sound. Not going aftermarket route.

That leaves me with only the ATS 3.6L as a contender for "sound proof". Will want LSD option on the ATS too. And of course at that point the 335i will be in the contention, so is the S4.

For now personally there are really no other viable alternatives I can think of. I may still test drive a G37S simply because of its fantastic lease deals, but unless it really impresses me in the driving dynamics and fun department, it will not be a serious option.

Throw a AA tune, PE and Eurobox on your E90 and never look back.