From Diesel to 5.0 M-Sport, Adaptive Drive, Review, Photos

Originally Posted by NoI4plz

Before I jump in here, I wanted to say the manual image is broken. Secondly z51 could you describe specially on a new post what you felt on your experience with the diesel vs 5.0. (sorry if I'm asking for too much).

Image fixed.


What do you mean on a new post?

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

Sorry you weren't happy with your D, but congrats on the 50i! That's what we would have gotten, skipping the 35i completely, if my wife didn't like the D.

Ride is very nice with our D and the standard suspension and 18" Style 209 wheels, even on pretty choppy and rough pavement. We specifically avoided the larger 19 and 20" wheels for this reason. It still handles more than good enough, although there's noticeable body roll in corners without AD. We have third row seats, which I think includes the self-leveling suspension. Very comfortably riding car no matter what we drive it over. The only thing that bugs me about the 6 speed automatic is that the first two gears are way too short. They did this on purpose to give it some solid towing and slow speed off-road ability while skipping the two-speed transfer case. Not my DD so I'm probably just not used to it. Feels a bit mushy at slower speeds too, probably to avoid driveline shock if you were towing something pretty heavy. Torque converter stays unlocked which makes it feel slushy, but put your foot down and it clamps down hard in lockup mode and feels nice and crisp again. Drove an E90 335d loaner for a week which has the same 6 speed automatic but a much taller final drive ratio, and it felt much more natural to drive to me. No complaints about not being able to get downshifts. It does try to hold the upper gears in D mode, but put it in DS and it'll happily downshift very easily. Yup it does run out of steam up top quite noticeably. It's great at up to 8/10ths, but if you're pushing beyond that you'll feel like you want more. JBD chip? I did test a 35d and 35i back to back and had them flat on some highway acceleration tests, and they really didn't feel a whole lot different to me though. I think the 35i/N55 loses a lot of its charm when in 5000lb E70 duty. I like it a whole lot more, and the exhaust sounds a whole lot better in my E93 335i.

Anyways have fun with the 50i! Should be a beast!

Yes, I think the third row option with air suspension is what smooths things out for you. You hit the nail on the head. Torque converter not in lock up is exactly what I was feeling. It drove me nuts. I have to say newer BMWs are very different one to another same MY. There is great variability between individual cars. My friend's diesel feels much better to me than the one I had. It was much more eager to shift and I didn't feel lag at lower rpms when I drove it.

The MY13 35i loaner that I had for a week was an absolute Beast! That car is what sealed the nail on the coffin for my Diesel. That thing just plain screamed. It felt incredible for a 35. I drove others, but didn't get the same feeling. It's tranny was so in tune, it almost felt telepathic. I can't even say the same thing about my 5.0. It sounded great too. I don't know what it was about that particular car. It was an exceptional example, that's all.

Originally Posted by z51vette

Yes, I think the third row option with air suspension is what smooths things out for you. You hit the nail on the head. Torque converter not in lock up is exactly what I was feeling. It drove me nuts. I have to say newer BMWs are very different one to another same MY. There is great variability between individual cars. My friend's diesel feels much better to me than the one I had. It was much more eager to shift and I didn't feel lag at lower rpms when I drove it.

The MY13 35i loaner that I had for a week was an absolute Beast! That car is what sealed the nail on the coffin for my Diesel. That thing just plain screamed. It felt incredible for a 35. I drove others, but didn't get the same feeling. It's tranny was so in tune, it almost felt telepathic. I can't even say the same thing about my 5.0. It sounded great too. I don't know what it was about that particular car. It was an exceptional example, that's all.

Vette: it's sound like u found a flaw in ur 5.0
Please elaborate
Anything else ur not so enthused about a weeek into the msport
All the best
Rob

Originally Posted by 5seriesHB

Vette: it's sound like u found a flaw in ur 5.0
Please elaborate
Anything else ur not so enthused about a weeek into the msport
All the best
Rob

Not a flaw per say, but the tranny in the 35i I had seemed to be spot on more times than what I feel like in my 5.0. One thing I'm not liking is the downshift is a bit rough 3-2 and 2-1 when coming to a stop. As for a traffic light. In D mode. This started happening in the last week,

I have about 800 miles on the car now. It's two weeks in. I noticed greatly reduced mileage in the past week. About 9.5 MPG city as indicated but I think it may be even less. I'm being really easy on the gas pedal at this point. There is also a massive amount of black residue inside the exhaust tips. The exhaust smell is also very pronounced and the car is generating a great deal of heat. You can really feel it from the sides of the car and the exhaust gasses are very hot out of the tips. The electrics fans seem to be on a lot more times than what I experienced before, to bring the heat down. It seems to be running rich. No codes, but I will schedule a service visit next week to check it out.

Vette: looks like my ml63 AMG mpg #'s
Yikes
What's ur favorite part so far?

Originally Posted by 5seriesHB

Vette: looks like my ml63 AMG mpg #'s
Yikes
What's ur favorite part so far?

The sound

I really love everything about the car. A bit concerned about the things that I'm seeing in the last week. Judging by my fill-ups, I think the mileage is closer to 8 mpg city. The exhaust heat and smell doesn't seem right. Especially considering the incredible carbon buildup on the insides of the tips. The power feels a bit less too. Thought it was the gas at first, but tried a different station with no remedy.

Vette: hmmmmmm
What do u think is the problem?
Blown rings?

Ps how don't like the adaptive drive now that uve been in the car for a few weeks
When is it most useful?
Rob

Originally Posted by 5seriesHB

Vette: hmmmmmm
What do u think is the problem?
Blown rings?

Ps how don't like the adaptive drive now that uve been in the car for a few weeks
When is it most useful?
Rob

Rings? I sure hope not

Seriously, it would light up like a Christmas tree.

with as much electronics as modern engines are stuffed with, could be a million things. My days of turning wrenches are over. Will take it in next week. Hopefully it's just bad sensor somewhere. I'm surprised it's not throwing a code.

Ps how don't like the adaptive drive now that uve been in the car for a few weeks
When is it most useful?
Rob

Originally Posted by 5seriesHB

Ps how don't like the adaptive drive now that uve been in the car for a few weeks
When is it most useful?
Rob

I don't have AD remember.

And I don't miss it. Car handles great and feels comfortable enough to me. On the test drives of cars with AD, I felt that it was rougher than mine and absolutely hated the artificial "floaty" somewhat disconnected feeling it had. I love the Idea of AD, however I couldn't confirm it with my experience.

Ah yes I do remember now
Car handles great anyway!
I drive one yesterday
I think the AD is not going to suit my wife
For day to day driving
The tough part is if I get an 2011 msport 5.0 it's probably coming with it
Wether I like it or not right?

Originally Posted by 5seriesHB

Ah yes I do remember now
Car handles great anyway!
I drive one yesterday
I think the AD is not going to suit my wife
For day to day driving
The tough part is if I get an 2011 msport 5.0 it's probably coming with it
Wether I like it or not right?

If you find a 2011 you like, Just take it for a test drive. Don't depend on my perception. The ones I drove and hated all had the same continental 19" tires on 223M wheels. I did drive a 2011 AD with 333M 20"s and can't say I disliked it. Couldn't find a patch of rougher pavement to really tell.

So I was Doing some research (again procrastinating) on this topic and found a couple of videos.

1) only one search on YouTube, but you can see the different other videos as suggested, so watch those too. All BMW made vids published by autotechnik. ( the links may not work, Caz I couldn't share it, on my iOS device)



2) video from ZF bout self leveling tech.*



SO initially vette had a diesel with ad, but no self leveling. His new ride is a 5.0 without ad but has self leveling. So here's what I have found.

A car's handling is based on a variety of factors, some that would take a long time to explain, so I'm gonna keep it simple.*

1) all axis, x, y, and z. Imagine up/down, side to side, and a combo of that.
2) type of suspension implemented to counter physics
3) reaction time of suspension.*

In the past, all car's usually depended on mechanical systems to offer the best handling. Hence, the engineers dialed in a selected suspension setup, to suit the cars design philosophy. So if it was a Ferrari, then the suspension was designed to offer stiff handling so you could approach the limits of physics, while civics were designed to offer the economical ride quality (aka not really meant to go fast on a corner).*

In the case of the e70, the engineers have designed the steel suspension to offer the best handling possible from a heavy sav, hence, you do have a great time going 50 on a off ramp while the stock civic behind you, would be stuck going 40, and the passengers holding on for dear life.*

However one of the greatest drawbacks of steel suspensions, is that they can only dialed to offer one setting, so in the case of the e70, it's always firm and has limit. To overcome those barriers, designers came up with adding adjustable suspension. Now on most cars that decide this, they go aftermarket, and the basic jist is a combo of
1) adjustable coilovers
2) thicker strut bars
3) thicker anti roll/saw bars

Introduce these new components, and your once limited setup, offers you even more cornering ability and better track days. However this new found suspension limit comes at a cost; comfort. Most drivers who have cars with three upgrades above will feel that their car is very, very rigid, which is a normal part of the setup since less body roll comes from much more stiffer struts and springs, hence the rigidity. The crashing effect is a result of driving a car with a suspension that is too stiff to provide minimum body roll. In addition, since the suspension is stiffer, any added weight is gonna be a major pita, since you car doesn't have much suspension travel due to the need for minimal body roll. Hence, your center of gravity with added weight of passengers is going be off from its design limit. Wouldn't it be nice to offset the cost of comfort for better suspension travel. Hey wait BMW has a Way and it's AD.

Adaptive drive is pretty much, a highly electronic version of the three upgrades that I mentioned earlier. It has variable dampers (similar to adjustable coilovers), variable anti rollbars which are working in realtime through a combination of sensors (ie yaw, g, load sensor). Although AD is realtime, BMW, designer of ultimate driving machines decided to bias the system towards driving, not towards comfort (not primarily at least). Hence you are to experience a massive improvement in driving performance, but at cost of comfort. Now you might be ask, wait why would this be different then say a conventional coilover setup. Well this system is a cost reduction, not elimination. What do I mean? The system allows you to adjust the cars driving style, based on road conditions, something not possible with a coilover system without pulling over and manually working on the coilover. However a system designed to simulate what mechanical suspension components do, can only go so far, and AD will exhibit some rigidity issues, and crashing. In addition, the system also does have to work a bit harder, and off design spec when adding x amount of passenger weight. Again similar to a manual coilover, this suspension will react differently towards the weight and would provide a degree of discomfort. *However on a side note, BMW hasn't stopped working in the original idea, and now we have the next iterations of this system on the F platform cars and their ability to recognize the drivers desired level of driving performance.*

Now on the self leveling suspension offering an improved ride doubt, which I and many others shared, I think its justified and not. The ZF VIDEO showcase what self leveling does. When a car is designed the suspension is designed to work in a certain amount of suspension situations. In the Situations (ie heavy to light) the suspension engineers try to offset the effect of the weight in regards to the suspension dynamics. Now they can only do so much. This is where the self leveling system helps on a rear wheel drive vehicle. The x5 has a near 50/50 weight distribution. When the car is near that distribution, the x5 will perform at its peak cap, since the suspension isn't having to offset the effects of the weight. However you add extra weight, or loading the x5 in some distinct manner, and the suspension has to physically offset that. This intern changes the center of gravity, which leads to a different feel. *The self leveling tech allows the car to continuously maintain optimum loading settings, and feel the same consistent feeling while driving with or without loading. Hence self leveling would indeed provide a better driving experience.*

Without refining the system, (expect it in the f15) the AD system can only provide soo much in terms of real time adjustment and comfort cost reduction *However the self leveling tech has to maintain ride height, which although complex is far more easier than adjusting all four corner every second.

Regards,*

I4

Originally Posted by z51vette

As some of you may know I bought a Diesel in June. I was originally interested in the Mercedes ML BlueTEC and even made a deal on one. By chance while my 535 was in for service I test drove the X5 Diesel. It was a standard non sport version. I really liked the X5 on the test drive compared to the ML. It seemed much more responsive, much more sporty, much more fitting with my taste and style. I even thought it sounded cool. I couldn't live with the ML after that. So I ordered a 35D with SA, 20" wheels, nicely loaded to the tune of $65.5K

I lived with the car for two months, then took it in for service. Minor adjustment of the seat air bladder position and replacement of a defective rubber wind deflector under the front bumper.

During the two months I had the car, I realized the car fatigued me, even short drives. The diesel sound and vibration goes from cool to annoying really quick, on the highway as well as stop and go city traffic. The Sport Activity Package comes with Sport suspension delete. I thought it would be a nice tradeoff considering the 20" wheels. I was wrong! The ride is very busy, even on seemingly flat pavement. Minor undulations are really unsettling for this suspension. Becoming major and prolonged pitch changes in the suspension geometry. Bigger pavement irregularities seem to send the suspension into Parkinson's like syndrome. Combined with the very firm sport seats and it becomes very fatiguing.

The 6 speed tranny is tuned for economy and really does not want to downshift. At WOT it downshifts to a gear, one gear too high in most circumstances. Sometimes it bangs out the right gear and really takes off, but the rush is short lived, it just doesn't want to play at higher revs. The up-shifts are really muddled. Slow and lacking crispness. For some strange reason, anytime it rained the car felt quicker and more responsive. Atmospheric pressure? Humidity?

The dealer set me up with a loaner while at service. I asked for an X5 and they did me a favor and set me up with one. It was a 13 35i premium. The minute I got on the interstate I was literally blown away by the difference. I drove gas X5s before, 535GT with the N55 as well as 5.0. This particular car seemed to be a factory ringer. It was an absolutely superb setup. Incredibly responsive, lighting quick gear changes. In manual mode, the up shifts are so quick and crisp it almost feels Dual Clutch, along with the little flare ups between shifts. On the highway, putting your foot down to the floor but not passed the "button" rewards with brisk gear change and acceleration. It seems to be in the right gear. But wait, there is more! Click the button under the gas pedal, and there is one more, lower. Spectacular! It just wants to breathe at higher revs. And there is always one more to be had. The exhaust sound in the 13 35i is phenomenal, especially in manual mode.


The Premium has 19 wheels. The ride is not as busy as in the SA D with 20's but still a little choppy. The car does seem lighter on its feet than the diesel. Possibly the weight. I haven't verified if the springs and dampers are the same/different part numbers.

Spoiled by this, almost week long relationship. I began considering my options. I was no longer enjoying the D. Yes, the 35i is nice, but if I'm going to get out of the D, I better get my rear end planted in a 5.0 seat. Suspension was my biggest dislike in the diesel. Reading all the positive responses here about Adaptive Drive and the comfort and sportiness it provides, I was almost certain there would be a check mark on that option box. Just to be sure I get the most isolation from NYC catacombs, I thought I should go with the 19's instead of 20's. AD with 19's, that's should be perfect for me, right? I was so close to ordering it but not wanting to make another mistake, I set out to find one with at least AD. It proved to be almost impossible. Yet, I managed to find two different AD equipped cars at different dealer's used lots and one 13 5.0 with AD, M-sport, M-performance, and 19s. My car!

Over two days I drove a total of five X5s, three being with Adaptive Drive.

2011 5.0 M-Sport with AD and 20s seemed nice. Not enough rough pavement on the test drive but on one bigger pavement transition it seemed to crash over it.

2009 3.0 M-Sport AD with staggered 19s felt like a floating boat. Nauseating body motions, poor steering response and unsettling harshness over somewhat concaved man hole covers. Couldn't wait to get out of this car.

2013 M-Sport 35i M-Sport with 20s no AD over the same road as the 09, felt much more composed. Firm but not too harsh. It controlled body motion briskly and felt much sharper.

2013 5.0 standard car no AD, 19s. This car seemed similar to my diesel.

Finally a 2013 5.0 AD M-Sport with M-Performance 19's. This was supposed to be my options. Well, I got a similar floaty feeling I got with the 09 that had the same wheels/tires. To a much lesser extent but the unpleasant front to back sway was there. Additionally, it also seemed to deal with the bigger road irregularities and indentations surprisingly poor. The Sport mode helped somewhat.

Unwilling to spend any more time test driving cars, I decided to take a calculated risk and Ordered a 5.0 with M-Sport/Performance with 20" wheels. There really was no other option. I knew I wanted the V8 after driving the Performance Pak 5.0. I knew I didn't want Adaptive Drive and I knew I didn't want 19's after putting my Diesel with 20's next to an M-Sport with 19's. I ordered the one combo I didn't drive, The M-Sport with 20s and Self Leveling Air Suspension.

I made a terrific deal with a local dealer and ordered it. The car went from 112 to production overnight and was at the dealer a little over a week later. I am absolutely Blown away by the level and quality of service I got from my SA. He made the deal happen for me, delivered on everything he promised in record time. Spent an incredible amount of his time fussing over every detail until it was polished. Finally when the car arrived, pulled it aside at the dealership so it sat separate from the crowds and even people smoking outside. On the delivery day, positioned it right next to his desk, locked, watching eagle over it. Put wheel locks on it free of charge and even adjusted the tire pressure himself. Wait, that's not all! He knew I transferred my lease on the diesel. On his own initiative, he asked if I could have the new owner call him so that he could update BMW Assist for him. I bought many brand new cars before, different marques, this is my fourth Bimmer. This has to be by far the best car buying experience I ever had. I usually go way out of my area to get a good deal and better service from sales. What can I say, It's not easy to leave me pleased. Sales Advisors like that make the dealership.

Finally about my car. The Self Leveling Air suspension in the 5.0 M-Sport is very well sorted. It remedies every issue I had with the diesel and the test drive vehicles. I'm convinced this is the option to have in the current X5 platform. The car feels very light on its feet. Very composed. The potholes and road bumps that became known to me are controlled quickly and effectively. There is no extra rear end sway, no float. The ride is as close to perfect as I can imagine for a high ground clearance vehicle. The handling is much improved over the diesel, especially transition response as well as steering feel and effort. The engine note is intoxicating. I don't want to push it too much during break-in but it is next to impossible.

Here are some pics from the test drives and finally my beautiful Space Gray M-Sport.


.

Mister z51vette.
it is very clear that you neither like Adaptive Drive or the Diesel…You have of course the right to your opinion, but you have indeed some VERY harsh criticism of some X5s with AD, and you glorify those without.
Let’s face the facts, you opinion are against the consensus of both European and American forums regarding AD. I have a 2009 M-Sport Diesel with AD and 19” Continental RFT wheels. A car that you criticize heavily. I can testify that it neither feels like a floating boat, have poor steering response, or has unsettling harshness over concave man hole covers. This is pure nonsense and bull****. (Or it must have been something seriously wrong with your test car)
I have driven several X5 both with and without AD and self leveling suspensions. They are all great drivers and I haven’t noticed any difference in steering response, or self leveling suspension or not. I guess your ass, is more sensitive than mine. .But I’ve noticed a considerable positive difference if the car has AD..
You are also the first that I read about, that considers the self leveling suspensions to be the holy grail of the X5 comfort, which it is clearly not..
All in all, we can agree to disagree. To those of you who don’t consider AD after reading z51Vettes review..Please drive one and make up your own opinion.
Adaptive Drive is a marvelous option for the X5, and criticism is few to almost none ;-)

Wow that was such a passionate post "gjohnsten"
ur tone we can hear it across the pond...lol
Breathe breathe....
I 2 can 2nd z51vettes critique of the AD model only for the 2009 yr
Msport model
I did test drive a 2009 msport 4.8 with AD
It felt so different in what I'm use to. So I think right off the bat I was like wow I don't like this
It "felt" heavy not that it was but felt heavy at first
And tough to maneuver around turns. like someone was pulling the opposite way on the steering wheel as i was turning. That may have been the AD option as
opposed to regular sport package. Now that i think about it maybe it had active steering as well
That model yr in the x5 for me was a loud heavy car w not enough power to weight ratio for my taste.. sorry if that offends u , not my intention at all.
My only regret is that I did not test drive it longer
I may have gotten used to it but I doubt it
Ps the roads were incredibly smooth where I was so I could not say regarding comfort on rough roads
Irvine ca not exactly a rough and tumble town
I could not wait to get out of that x5
Cheers mate
Rob

Originally Posted by 5seriesHB

Wow that was such a passionate post "gjohnsten"
ur tone we can hear it across the pond...lol
Breathe breathe....
I 2 can 2nd z51vettes critique of the AD model only for the 2009 yr
Msport model
I did test drive a 2009 msport 4.8 with AD
It felt so deiffersnt in what I'm use to. So I think right off the bat I was like wow I don't like this
It "felt" heavy not that it was but felt heavy at first
And tough to manuver
That model yr in the x5 was loud heavy car w not enough power to weight ratio for my taste
My only regret is that I did not test drive it longer
I may have gotten used to it but I doubt it
Ps the roads were incredibly smooth where I was so I could not say regarding comfort on rough roads
Irvine ca not exactly a rough and tumble town
I could not wait to get out of that x5
Cheers mate
Rob

You are saying there is a difference in steering between a 2009 AD car and other model years?.. Just curious. Have BMW really changed the steering, except for the active steering equipped cars..?? Cheers to you to mate

Originally Posted by gjohnsen

You are saying there is a difference in steering between a 2009 AD car and other model years?.. Just curious. Have BMW really changed the steering, except for the active steering equipped cars..?? Cheers to you to mate

I am now thinking it had active steering as well! cant be sure because they sold the car but maybe so.
im going to test drive a 2011 msport w AD manana, will keep u updated
Rob

Originally Posted by gjohnsen

Mister z51vette.
it is very clear that you neither like Adaptive Drive or the Diesel…You have of course the right to your opinion, but you have indeed some VERY harsh criticism of some X5s with AD, and you glorify those without.
Let’s face the facts, you opinion are against the consensus of both European and American forums regarding AD. I have a 2009 M-Sport Diesel with AD and 19” Continental RFT wheels. A car that you criticize heavily. I can testify that it neither feels like a floating boat, have poor steering response, or has unsettling harshness over concave man hole covers. This is pure nonsense and bull****. (Or it must have been something seriously wrong with your test car)
I have driven several X5 both with and without AD and self leveling suspensions. They are all great drivers and I haven’t noticed any difference in steering response, or self leveling suspension or not. I guess your ass, is more sensitive than mine. .But I’ve noticed a considerable positive difference if the car has AD..
You are also the first that I read about, that considers the self leveling suspensions to be the holy grail of the X5 comfort, which it is clearly not..
All in all, we can agree to disagree. To those of you who don’t consider AD after reading z51Vettes review..Please drive one and make up your own opinion.
Adaptive Drive is a marvelous option for the X5, and criticism is few to almost none ;-)

dude, you must have really nice roads in Norway. Come to Brooklyn for a change and drive on my roads. Then see how sensitive of an ass you are

Originally Posted by NoI4plz

SO initially vette had a diesel with ad, but no self leveling. His new ride is a 5.0 without ad but has self leveling. So here's what I have found.

No, the Diesel didn't have AD or Self Leveling. I wished it did. I found the ride intolerable on the roads I frequent. That's why I began considering getting out of it and getting the Next Car with AD. I was sure that was going to fix it. The pavement is so rough, that when driving over it at anything over 20, the rear of the car would jump up and down for a few seconds before it quieted down. This was extremely uncomfortable. Speed limit is 35 in these areas. On the highway it was no better. Long drives were extremely fatiguing for me. The constant hunting of the rear end is very tiring on anything but the flattest and well laid down asphalt. My 5.0 feels downright comfortable over the same roads.

Originally Posted by z51vette

dude, you must have really nice roads in Norway. Come to Brooklyn for a change and drive on my roads. Then see how sensitive of an ass you are

BOOOOM
NY style
Vette: telling it how it is

Vette move to Cali or Norway and problem solved

Seriously,

Here is a review of AD that I can relate to. I read it before and was laughing at the so called "expert" along with everybody else here that read it. What is this guy talking about I thought. It is suppose to be completely opposite according to the BMW literature and video demonstrations. Then I drove a car with AD. This kid may know what he is talking about after all

A small excerpt, regarding AD:


It's hard to discern a difference in ride comfort between Adaptive Drive's Sport and regular modes. Either way, our X5 soaked up large bumps but fell into wavy up-and-down rhythms on uneven highway. Small imperfections peppered the cabin where our diesel X5, which had a fixed suspension, smothered them out. BMW offers standard and sport-tuned versions of the fixed suspension. Whichever you choose, save the money and skip the adaptive setup.

A link to the review:

http://www.cars.com/bmw/x5/2012/expert-reviews/

Originally Posted by z51vette

It's hard to discern a difference in ride comfort between Adaptive Drive's Sport and regular modes. Either way, our X5 soaked up large bumps but fell into wavy up-and-down rhythms on uneven highway. Small imperfections peppered the cabin where our diesel X5, which had a fixed suspension, smothered them out. BMW offers standard and sport-tuned versions of the fixed suspension. Whichever you choose, save the money and skip the adaptive setup.[/I]

A link to the review:L]

Same tires?

or are we blithely ignoring the impact of tires and sidewalls?

(the answer, of course is "no idea what tires- nobody ever controls for the tire model") And "RFT" is not a model, there are many models of RFTs, some WAY better than others...

IMO

Originally Posted by ard

Same tires?

or are we blithely ignoring the impact of tires and sidewalls?

(the answer, of course is "no idea what tires- nobody ever controls for the tire model") And "RFT" is not a model, there are many models of RFTs, some WAY better than others...

IMO

Don't know about the reviewer but I noted all the models of tires I drove as evidenced by my original post.

Originally Posted by z51vette

dude, you must have really nice roads in Norway. Come to Brooklyn for a change and drive on my roads. Then see how sensitive of an ass you are

Agree 100 percent, the roads around NYC are atrocious, I drove over the GW Bridge about 4 months ago and honestly felt like I was driving on 4 concrete bricks ( even with 18in and Michelin RFT ), also had to drive into Brooklyn, if I lived up this way I would think twice about
the X5, the X5 is an awesome highway cruiser but not so great when the roads have not been maintained probably since they were built . One does pay a price for that handling.