Is the new 3 series is losing US market share?

Originally Posted by samualcc

This thread seems similar to another thread we just had. We can probably start these threads using a Mad Libs game:

Well guys it is the month of ________ and the latest 3 series numbers are out.

Looks like this month there was a _______ in sales over last years numbers, things seem like they are going _______ over in Germany.

I bet that the problem is related to _______ and that Audi and Mercedes are really just ______ compared to the 3 series.

I am also pretty sure that the price has had a ________ impact on sales, at least IMHO.

Personally, I really don't see a need to buy an F30 over my _______ but I am coming here to ask your opinion on these _________ sales numbers, even though I will never buy an F30. I am really here because my home forum is a ______ of _______.

P.S. have you guys checked out the latest head to head match up between the F30 and the _______. I know the 3 series won (again) but after dissecting the review, it is pretty clear that BMW is on the _______ and the competition is catching up.

Originally Posted by samualcc

This thread seems similar to another thread we just had. We can probably start these threads using a Mad Libs game:

Well guys it is the month of ________ and the latest 3 series numbers are out.

Looks like this month there was a _______ in sales over last years numbers, things seem like they are going _______ over in Germany.

I bet that the problem is related to _______ and that Audi and Mercedes are really just ______ compared to the 3 series.

I am also pretty sure that the price has had a ________ impact on sales, at least IMHO.

Personally, I really don't see a need to buy an F30 over my _______ but I am coming here to ask your opinion on these _________ sales numbers, even though I will never buy an F30. I am really here because my home forum is a ______ of _______.

P.S. have you guys checked out the latest head to head match up between the F30 and the _______. I know the 3 series won (again) but after dissecting the review, it is pretty clear that BMW is on the _______ and the competition is catching up.

Originally Posted by MacManVA

I currently own a 2012 Audi A4 Prestige S-Line fully loaded that I will be trading in when my 328xDrive arrives. A couple of things to keep in mind. If you look at the A4 sales for last year they where down most of the year and there was no Audi advertising for that model. This year the model has been refreshed and I have noticed a significant increase in the Audi advertising I see on TV and online. I'm sure both of those play into the increase in sales. Also, wasn't the MB C-Class refreshed before the new F30's? If so then they have had more time on the market.

The C class was refresh for the 2012 model year and the A4 had a minor refresh for 2013. Keep in mind, a refresh is not the same as a redesign, it rarely generates as much increase in sales as a full redesign. Its almost like MB and Audi is sent in their AAA minor baseball team against BMW's major league team and MB and Audi is winning.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

That is very true, at least on paper.

And since the E90 sold so well, it's a matter of waiting for those millions of leases to expire and those owners to transition right into the F30. It's a great car, nothing about it would make an E90 owner unhappy, quite the opposite in fact, BMW will have a huge conversion rate. The biggest group of potential F30 owners are presently in E90 leases.

BJ

Hopefully BMW is able to correct the steering vibration issue. Have you noticed it on yours?

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Not enough F30 inventory. Check.

Not enough XDrive models. Check.

Too much pre-existing E90 inventory. Check.

A flood of used E90 inventory. Check.

Virtually no F30 advertising. Check.

E92 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

E93 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

E91 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

A bunch of E9X owners looking for any reason to slam our cars and "send a message to BMW" invades the F30 forum. Check.

BJ

BMW didn't used to need excuses.

The local dealer has 18 2013 328Xi's on the lot. If the problem is really pent up demand of customers sitting around for months itching to buy a 328Xi, why so many cars sitting there?

I do find it interesting that those who are taking issue with this are E90 owners, or other previous generation owners. Over the next 7 years(the F30 lifecycle) it will outsell all other cars in it's class.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

I do find it interesting that those who are taking issue with this are E90 owners, or other previous generation owners. Over the next 7 years(the F30 lifecycle) it will outsell all other cars in it's class.

Nobody's taking issue, we just find it interesting.

You have a crystal ball or something that predicts car sales?

Originally Posted by Chris90

Since most buyers just walk into a dealership and buy a car off the lot, you'd have to compare typical price of cars on the lot. Dunno if that's higher though.

The competition is tough, and BMWs drive more and more like the competition. A '95 3 series didn't drive like any Toyota, Lexus, Audi or Nissan, it was a very unique driving experience. Today, you could blindfold drivers and they probably couldn't pick out the BMW.

There is a raft of options available on the F30 that weren't previously available that are going to cause these cars to have higher prices when they are so equipped. That is exactly why it's useful to look at comparably equipped past models to get a fair perspective on what is behind the higher prices of today's cars.

That people can't tell a BMW driving experience from that of other brands is not supported by the frequent threads posted here by new buyers expressing their excitement over how their car drives and stating they will never go back.

btw - it's MUCH LESS a case of BMWs driving like the competition than it is the competition driving more like a BMW.

Originally Posted by dtc100

The new MY C Class actually has some significant updates inside, which may explain why it is now the top seller in this segment.

If MY transition is to blame, the C Class transition seems much well executed.

The C Class didn't make a transition. It got a facelift.

Originally Posted by need4speed

The f30 is so evolutionary vis a vie the e90 there is nothing to make me want to run out and buy one. When the e9x came out and I compared it to my e46, I had to have one. Now, I really don't see much advantage. N4S

Every other redesign is more "revolutionary". This one is "evolutionary". This is BMW's stated SOP.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

And since the E90 sold so well, it's a matter of waiting for those millions of leases to expire and those owners to transition right into the F30. It's a great car, nothing about it would make an E90 owner unhappy, quite the opposite in fact, BMW will have a huge conversion rate. The biggest group of potential F30 owners are presently in E90 leases.

BJ

This is true.

Originally Posted by The X Men

The C class was refresh for the 2012 model year and the A4 had a minor refresh for 2013. Keep in mind, a refresh is not the same as a redesign, it rarely generates as much increase in sales as a full redesign. Its almost like MB and Audi is sent in their AAA minor baseball team against BMW's major league team and MB and Audi have had some good innings.

fixed

Originally Posted by justinnum1

I do find it interesting that those who are taking issue with this are E90 owners, or other previous generation owners. Over the next 7 years(the F30 lifecycle) it will outsell all other cars in it's class.

How do you know that? The gap is becoming smaller and smaller and the competition is ancient outside of the ATS.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

There is a raft of options available on the F30 that weren't previously available that are going to cause these cars to have higher prices when they are so equipped. That is exactly why it's useful to look at comparably equipped past models to get a fair perspective on what is behind the higher prices of today's cars.

That people can't tell a BMW driving experience from that of other brands is not supported by the frequent threads posted here by new buyers expressing their excitement over how their car drives and stating they will never go back.

btw - it's MUCH LESS a case of BMWs driving like the competition than it is the competition driving more like a BMW.

It doesn't matter if the higher prices are justified, if prices are higher, it could be driving away buyers.

I wouldn't take BFest anecdotes by new F30 owners to represent the overall car market, and whether BMWs still differentiate from the competition. Go to a Cadillac or Acura forum, it's full of the same types of comments from new owners.

When I drove the competition before buying my two BMWs, they lacked feel, were too soft, and weren't fun to drive enough to justify the high cost. So I think it's BMW moving toward the competition.

Originally Posted by beden1

Hopefully BMW is able to correct the steering vibration issue. Have you noticed it on yours?

I've got a 2013, have no vibrations.

I thought I read this was a 2012 issue and a minor one (very few reported) at that.

BJ

Originally Posted by Chris90

When I drove the competition before buying my two BMWs, they lacked feel, were too soft, and weren't fun to drive enough to justify the high cost. So I think it's BMW moving toward the competition.

Huh?? When did you buy your Bimmers?

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Huh?? When did you buy your Bimmers?

2000 and 2005.

Originally Posted by Chris90

BMW didn't used to need excuses.

That is so true, in the old days, when one look for a small sporty luxury sedan, the 3 series was it. Now a days, I am not so sure. The 3 series is still the benchmark, but it is not longer a sure thing. The competition, with the same options, has a cheaper MSRP and unless you are an enthusiast, you cannot tell the difference between the way a F30 drives compare to the competition. So what does that leave BMW with? a hand full of auto enthusiast and the rest are buying the car for the badge.

Originally Posted by The X Men

That is so true, in the old days, when one look for a small sporty luxury sedan, the 3 series was it. Now a days, I am not so sure. The 3 series is still the benchmark, but it is not longer a sure thing. The competition, with the same options, has a cheaper MSRP and unless you are an enthusiast, you cannot tell the difference between the way a F30 drives compare to the competition. So what does that leave BMW with? a hand full of auto enthusiast and the rest are buying the car for the badge.

So, nothing has changed then?

Originally Posted by The X Men

That is so true, in the old days, when one look for a small sporty luxury sedan, the 3 series was it. Now a days, I am not so sure. The 3 series is still the benchmark, but it is not longer a sure thing. The competition, with the same options, has a cheaper MSRP and unless you are an enthusiast, you cannot tell the difference between the way a F30 drives compare to the competition. So what does that leave BMW with? a hand full of auto enthusiast and the rest are buying the car for the badge.

That's how it always is. Auto enthusiasts are such a small % of the overall population. If an auto enthusiast wants a entry level luxury sedan their options are very limited. Just because the new F30 isn't as "hardcore" as previous generations, it still is the leader of the pack for auto enthusiasts, like you mentioned, the benchmark. I am looking forward to driving a ATS(tho not the 2.0t, that has received some pretty negative reviews.)

Originally Posted by Chris90

Since most buyers just walk into a dealership and buy a car off the lot, you'd have to compare typical price of cars on the lot. Dunno if that's higher though.

The competition is tough, and BMWs drive more and more like the competition. A '95 3 series didn't drive like any Toyota, Lexus, Audi or Nissan, it was a very unique driving experience. Today, you could blindfold drivers and they probably couldn't pick out the BMW.

This is very much true. I test drove one the other day and it felt like a toy with over-boosted steering wheel.

Originally Posted by windsor027

You have got to be kidding. you actually test drove an F30?

Yes I have driven the F30. For me it is the same motor and tranny. Also it is more restrictive on how I can order it and it has that euro beek thing on the nose. All in all it is not nearly different enough from my e9x to make me want to run out and buy one. The same can't be said for the e46 to e90 changes. If you go back to the e36 to e46 redo you are in the same situation with BMW, but the rivals have come a very very long way since then. N4S

Originally Posted by samualcc

This thread seems similar to another thread we just had. We can probably start these threads using a Mad Libs game:

Well guys it is the month of ________ and the latest 3 series numbers are out.

Looks like this month there was a _______ in sales over last years numbers, things seem like they are going _______ over in Germany.

I bet that the problem is related to _______ and that Audi and Mercedes are really just ______ compared to the 3 series.

I am also pretty sure that the price has had a ________ impact on sales, at least IMHO.

Personally, I really don't see a need to buy an F30 over my _______ but I am coming here to ask your opinion on these _________ sales numbers, even though I will never buy an F30. I am really here because my home forum is a ______ of _______.

P.S. have you guys checked out the latest head to head match up between the F30 and the _______. I know the 3 series won (again) but after dissecting the review, it is pretty clear that BMW is on the _______ and the competition is catching up.

Nice. Also, I hear all the 3-s are really just $50,000 vibrators.

Originally Posted by need4speed

Yes I have driven the F30. For me it is the same motor and tranny. Also it is more restrictive on how I can order it and it has that euro beek thing on the nose. All in all it is not nearly different enough from my e9x to make me want to run out and buy one. The same can't be said for the e46 to e90 changes. If you go back to the e36 to e46 redo you are in the same situation with BMW, but the rivals have come a very very long way since then. N4S

Why is it that everyone who didn't wait for the new bodystyle and got a 2011 instead feels like they need to come in here and take a sh-t on our cars? Aren't they treated like baller rock stars by the used car tweens in the E9X forum?

BJ

Originally Posted by The X Men

That is so true, in the old days, when one look for a small sporty luxury sedan, the 3 series was it. Now a days, I am not so sure. The 3 series is still the benchmark, but it is not longer a sure thing. The competition, with the same options, has a cheaper MSRP and unless you are an enthusiast, you cannot tell the difference between the way a F30 drives compare to the competition. So what does that leave BMW with? a hand full of auto enthusiast and the rest are buying the car for the badge.

Originally Posted by beden1

So, nothing has changed then?

Bingo!

There are no "enthusiasts" as far as BMW is concerned. And if there were, they've been taking it up the *** for 20 years, not going to stop, compromising themselves in the E90 and F30 which are the antithesis of smaller, tighter, sportier rides. BMW makes a series if accessories and derivative models for that small group, but the platform is a bigger, wider, luxurious, soft car.

It amazes me how far from reality some folks truly are. BMW hasn't forgotten you. You're just not the target audience and what that audience wants isn't an E46. It's an E39.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Why is it that everyone who didn't wait for the new bodystyle and got a 2011 instead feels like they need to come in here and take a sh-t on our cars? Aren't they treated like baller rock stars by the used car tweens in the E9X forum?

BJ

Same people who will be driving an f30 soon. Can you imagine getting a 40k car months before the new body style comes out?

Originally Posted by Chris90

The local dealer has 18 2013 328Xi's on the lot. If the problem is really pent up demand of customers sitting around for months itching to buy a 328Xi, why so many cars sitting there?

Can't answer specifically, but the Lines make it a challenge for inventory management.

If those 18 cars are No-Line, Modern, or Sport, I'm not buying. Used to be that you wanted a Grey 328i and they'd show you 4 of them with varying options and usually you could come pretty close to save 10 weeks of delivery time. But varying trim levels, different story.

BJ

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Same people who will be driving an f30 soon. Can you imagine getting a 40k car months before the new body style comes out?

BJ

Originally Posted by justinnum1

I am looking forward to driving a ATS(tho not the 2.0t, that has received some pretty negative reviews.)

See the post I just made in the "post E46" thread in the E46 forum.