October 2012 BMWFS Sales Support Programs

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

Well, since you asked, "that company" got sued and a "Cease & Desist Order" now precludes them (Lease Compare) from posting them now.. Just because "Ride with G" is getting away with it for now doesn't mean they'll be doing it forever.
If it was legal to be posted, the lease money factors surely would be posted here as I used to do for many years (before you joined Bimmerfest) until they cracked down on us...

Got it... Interesting...didn't know it went down like that... thanks for the update.

Originally Posted by mrjoed2

I started looking at a MB 550 coupe, which is still on my short list. The 650 is certainly a step up, but of course it should be for $25K more. Again lease factors are not a consideration as I am looking at a purchase. And fact is we are in the post 9/11 world, and all Mfgs have consumer incentives to some degree. I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a BMW AND a deal. Fact is as much as I like the 650, it is overpriced, with features like blind spot/lane departure a option which are standard on cars half the price. and LED's which should be standard on their halo car. Frankly the only way I will go for the 650 is with decent incentives/discounts. And frankly after doing some research, the 6 series has historically had big time depreciation, this even before BMW began customer end incentives - so it would seem logical to get it at the lowest price possible. We all know BMW makes huge profit margins on the upper end 6/7 series. And I understand it's not a domestic - but again a $2000 incentive in a $90,000 BMW is not in the same ballpark as $2000 off a $25,000 Ford or Chevy. BMW won't even feel it.

Bottom line from my point of view - BMW offered $2500 incentive last Dec on the 6er, when it was a brand new model, and can't imagine they won't do something similar this year, given it's now in it's second year, competition with MB, and European market crashing. I'll wait a bit longer ( would like the updated Idrive as well which for some bizarre reason is now in the 5 & 7 series but they skipped the 6) I do appreciate your insight. And in my case - no, it won't sell without some stimulation. And I would think dealers would love the incentives, BMW is funding them and you would get more sales - lobby Munich!!

I am confused by your comments.. Just my 2 cents. You are will to buy a car you feel is over priced and pay a 25K difference but the 2K in incentives will make all the difference?

Or is that you are upset that you feel there were better deals last year than this year?

John, thanks for the info you (and Grep P) saved me a few bucks... always apprecaited.

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

Seemingly not worried for now..

All of the extra incentives are based on sales performance awarded to Sales Department personnel...

+1, I went to my local dealer on 9/24 asking for a purchase price on a 2013 X5 Premium. Initial conversation started with an email from the dealer. They asked me to come to the dealership. I went and spoke to the internet advisor and their initial quote was $56,068 with a MSRP of $60,695 (SAV was in stock). That's very close to invoice. Now, I deduct USA drive, loyalty & Ult App credit. With the $2,250 incentives, that will bring my purchase price couple thousands below invoice. Not a bad deal at all. She gave me the quote without any incentives. That was the price to lease or to buy. She wrote all the information on her business card + the buy rate of .00145.

Like Jon said, find a dealer that is willing to work with you. I'm also a big believer of buying at the end of the month.

Originally Posted by mrjoed2

I started looking at a MB 550 coupe, which is still on my short list. The 650 is certainly a step up, but of course it should be for $25K more. Again lease factors are not a consideration as I am looking at a purchase. And fact is we are in the post 9/11 world, and all Mfgs have consumer incentives to some degree. I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a BMW AND a deal. Fact is as much as I like the 650, it is overpriced, with features like blind spot/lane departure a option which are standard on cars half the price. and LED's which should be standard on their halo car. Frankly the only way I will go for the 650 is with decent incentives/discounts. And frankly after doing some research, the 6 series has historically had big time depreciation, this even before BMW began customer end incentives - so it would seem logical to get it at the lowest price possible. We all know BMW makes huge profit margins on the upper end 6/7 series. And I understand it's not a domestic - but again a $2000 incentive in a $90,000 BMW is not in the same ballpark as $2000 off a $25,000 Ford or Chevy. BMW won't even feel it.

Bottom line from my point of view - BMW offered $2500 incentive last Dec on the 6er, when it was a brand new model, and can't imagine they won't do something similar this year, given it's now in it's second year, competition with MB, and European market crashing. I'll wait a bit longer ( would like the updated Idrive as well which for some bizarre reason is now in the 5 & 7 series but they skipped the 6) I do appreciate your insight. And in my case - no, it won't sell without some stimulation. And I would think dealers would love the incentives, BMW is funding them and you would get more sales - lobby Munich!!

I agree with your with you pov, who doesn't like incentives to purchase a car. At the end of the day yes I'm not expecting crazy incentives on a vehicle (unless it's last gen or it's sales dud) however I do expect some trunk money on any car.

Now will I complain that AT THIS VERY MOMENT the TRUNK MONEY ISNT THERE? YES. However BMW runs a business, and I don't purchase a car the moment I set my eyes on it. I know BMW will in the future run some sort of incentives programs which will make me want to buy the car, at the price I want to pay and then I will happily purchase it. Patients and restraint will happily snag you the right price. This is one of those time were you have to make a decision whether you want the car now at a price above what your willing to pay, vs later where new incentives might pop up.

Originally Posted by miamiboyca

I am confused by your comments.. Just my 2 cents. You are will to buy a car you feel is over priced and pay a 25K difference but the 2K in incentives will make all the difference?

Or is that you are upset that you feel there were better deals last year than this year?

John, thanks for the info you (and Grep P) saved me a few bucks... always apprecaited.

Contradictary, but hey that's how the financially well to do, stay well to do

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

My pleasure as always..

Are you still interested in X5?

Sent you a PM. Don't worry take your time answering it, and it's not about any incentives LOL

EDIT: next time I'll sHouod try sending the message before posting I sent you a pm!

I'll just email after a couple days, after the initial bulk of incentive questions are done ROFL

Originally Posted by miamiboyca

I am confused by your comments.. Just my 2 cents. You are will to buy a car you feel is over priced and pay a 25K difference but the 2K in incentives will make all the difference?

Or is that you are upset that you feel there were better deals last year than this year?

Yes - the comments are contradictory. He wants incentives - but complains that resale is bad. 6 series has features that are on cars half the price - yet he still will get a 6 series even though it is much more expensive.

From what I've read, it sounds like just wanting to get a deal better than others and justifying it with unassociated ideas. I don't say there's anything wrong with wanting the best deal out there, but just that the arguments presented are inconsistent, and that the only thing I can come up with is being greedy for the best deal.

Originally Posted by mrjoed2

I'll wait a bit longer ( would like the updated Idrive as well which for some bizarre reason is now in the 5 & 7 series but they skipped the 6)

If that is your course of action, I really can't see why you would be really upset. Sure, everything has been about super duper October incentives, but it was all just rumour. Just sit and bide your time. If history is any indicator, all you need to do is have cash ready, and wait. It may be end of year, it may be next year - but if time is on your side, I don't see any cause for concern.

And I'd offer that as my opinion to anyone else - if you want a deal, and need a car soon, head down to a sponsor, and take something off the lot or in the pipeline. Per Jon, incentives are there to move in stock cars.

If you'd rather order or do ED and the deal is paramount, it may pay to wait if you can.

Originally Posted by chrischeung

From what I've read, it sounds like just wanting to get a deal better than others and justifying it with unassociated ideas. I don't say there's anything wrong with wanting the best deal out there, but just that the arguments presented are inconsistent, and that the only thing I can come up with is being greedy for the best deal.

+1 Not that there is anything wrong with that... Judging by your deals you are very good at this or have a rabi at BMW

Originally Posted by chrischeung

Yes - the comments are contradictory. He wants incentives - but complains that resale is bad. 6 series has features that are on cars half the price - yet he still will get a 6 series even though it is much more expensive.

From what I've read, it sounds like just wanting to get a deal better than others and justifying it with unassociated ideas. I don't say there's anything wrong with wanting the best deal out there, but just that the arguments presented are inconsistent, and that the only thing I can come up with is being greedy for the best deal.

Yes, I do want the best deal, maybe you don't. Don't like incentives? Go right ahead and pay sticker. And check the data- the resale/depreciation- has always been lousy on the 6 series even before large customer incentives, I understand that going in, but still love the car.
And are you suggesting pay a higher price for it to try to keep the resale up? Ridiculous.
And some things about BMW are hard to swallow , such as I mentioned about options that should be standard. It can be argued that BMW is being greedy, looking for huge profits, but I guess that's ok with you. As one of the other posts said, you don't become financially successful by giving it away......

Originally Posted by miamiboyca

I am confused by your comments.. Just my 2 cents. You are will to buy a car you feel is over priced and pay a 25K difference but the 2K in incentives will make all the difference?

Or is that you are upset that you feel there were better deals last year than this year?

John, thanks for the info you (and Grep P) saved me a few bucks... always apprecaited.

Was saying I starting looking at a less expensive car a MB 550, and then at the 650. I feel the 650 IS overpriced and the only way I can justify it is with great incentives - what's wrong with that?, my POV. And the best deals last year seem to have been Dec, so guess what, I'll wait until December, no rush, it's a 3rd car for us.

Originally Posted by mrjoed2

Yes, I do want the best deal, maybe you don't. Don't like incentives? Go right ahead and pay sticker. And check the data- the resale/depreciation- has always been lousy on the 6 series even before large customer incentives, I understand that going in, but still love the car.
And are you suggesting pay a higher price for it to try to keep the resale up? Ridiculous.
And some things about BMW are hard to swallow , such as I mentioned about options that should be standard. It can be argued that BMW is being greedy, looking for huge profits, but I guess that's ok with you. As one of the other posts said, you don't become financially successful by giving it away......

I think BMW isn't being greedy, but rather trying to make a profit on their investment, which will help run their business. At the same time, it's also your business to make the best return on your investment, hence you would want to buy the 6 when the purchase price yields max benefit in options. Historically you will see that happen with BMW, as the model line gets close to an LCI or you get some business record BMW group is trying to break. I think as the year gets closer to Mayan doomsday (I had to say it, Caz it seems to have lost it popularity amongst people) the incentives tend to flow, especially with VAG tryin dominate the luxury market.

Also Mr joe, you and everyone else here works hard for every penny, why justify your philosophy of spending, just to do what you do to get you what you want on your terms. That's what everyone else does lol, no need to justify it. A friend once said to me, IT'S YOUR MONEY, USE IT ANY FREAKIN WAY YOU WANT, AS LONG AS YOUR HAPPY WITH THAT WAY!
Living by that philosophy every since!

-i4

Originally Posted by mrjoed2

Yes, I do want the best deal, maybe you don't. Don't like incentives? Go right ahead and pay sticker. And check the data- the resale/depreciation- has always been lousy on the 6 series even before large customer incentives, I understand that going in, but still love the car.
And are you suggesting pay a higher price for it to try to keep the resale up? Ridiculous.
And some things about BMW are hard to swallow , such as I mentioned about options that should be standard. It can be argued that BMW is being greedy, looking for huge profits, but I guess that's ok with you. As one of the other posts said, you don't become financially successful by giving it away......

A fool and his money are soon parted....

Originally Posted by mrjoed2

Yes, I do want the best deal, maybe you don't. Don't like incentives? Go right ahead and pay sticker.

I think you're putting words into my mouth - I never said your or I should pay sticker. I said if you want the best deal, wait. If you need a car now, you can go in and work with your dealer and pick up a car with the current incentives.

Yes - I don't want the best deal. That is because I'm not prepared to miss out on the better things in life by thinking they'll be cheaper down the road. I'll be the first to admit that I've overpaid for many things (including my current BMW), and underpaid for quite a bit more. Sure, I'll do my research, and often be patient for the deal, but when I don't get it, or see someone get a better deal, I don't think it's unfair, blame the seller, say something is overpriced etc.

But to me it's not how much I paid for something - it's what I was able to get out of it that is most important to me. It's a little sad - I've been on the Bimmerfest boards for 10 years+ give or take, and I've seen a lot of the enthusiasm for the cars been changed to a lot about how good a deal is (or not). From what I've seen over the years, by just having spent a couple of hours/days on these boards, the vast majority of people I would guess have gotten 80% of the potential savings at least of the best deal possible for their car - meaning if the best deal is $5000 off, then most folks would have gotten at least $4000 off. Just a guess on my part, but I'll put it out there. It's personally strange that people get upset over a few hundred dollars on a $50K+ purchase.

Bottom line - be happy, either way. If the deal works, get the car. If not, keep your cash.

Originally Posted by mrjoed2

Was saying I starting looking at a less expensive car a MB 550, and then at the 650. I feel the 650 IS overpriced and the only way I can justify it is with great incentives - what's wrong with that?, my POV. And the best deals last year seem to have been Dec, so guess what, I'll wait until December, no rush, it's a 3rd car for us.

Joe, its obviously your prerogative to wait as long as you want, no problem. What confuses me here is that you say its over priced (25K difference) but then a 2K incentive would make it ok.

I get wanting to get the best deal, that is something I think everyone understands.

One question, what happens if there are no incentives in Nov/Dec? What will you do then? Just curios.

Perhaps a lovely trip to Munich....

Originally Posted by Ace535i

Perhaps a lovely trip to Munich....

Most people spend more on European Delivery than what they saved on the car. I'm assuming you mean a "lovely" vs "quick and cheap" European Delivery. USAA rebate is also not combinable with European Delivery.

Originally Posted by chrischeung

Most people spend more on European Delivery than what they saved on the car. I'm assuming you mean a "lovely" vs "quick and cheap" European Delivery. USAA rebate is also not combinable with European Delivery.

We are 'making' money on our trips to Munich but that is a special case. We go there anyway at least every 2nd year and in the years we do ED we save the rental car costs. And we get a free breakfast :-).
Obviously the wait afterwards is there but we have an older spare 3rd car to bridge the gap.

European delivery is a great way to experience what the vehicle was designed for. There really aren't any savings, but it makes for one memorable trip and a chance to take a nice vacation with or without the family (lol) and the driving experience. If your doing it to get a fantastic price, I think the point of ED is lost, and your better off trying to special order/buy off the lot here.

Same thing with PCD, it's a driving experience, and somewhat of a vacation package rolled nto one, and stateside. Both of them offer an opportunity to get familiar with the vehicle, and make some memories in the process.

Originally Posted by NoI4plz

I think BMW isn't being greedy, but rather trying to make a profit on their investment, which will help run their business. At the same time, it's also your business to make the best return on your investment, hence you would want to buy the 6 when the purchase price yields max benefit in options. Historically you will see that happen with BMW, as the model line gets close to an LCI or you get some business record BMW group is trying to break. I think as the year gets closer to Mayan doomsday (I had to say it, Caz it seems to have lost it popularity amongst people) the incentives tend to flow, especially with VAG tryin dominate the luxury market.

Also Mr joe, you and everyone else here works hard for every penny, why justify your philosophy of spending, just to do what you do to get you what you want on your terms. That's what everyone else does lol, no need to justify it. A friend once said to me, IT'S YOUR MONEY, USE IT ANY FREAKIN WAY YOU WANT, AS LONG AS YOUR HAPPY WITH THAT WAY!
Living by that philosophy every since!

-i4

Absolutely agree. But when I'm called greedy, need to respond if you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by miamiboyca

Joe, its obviously your prerogative to wait as long as you want, no problem. What confuses me here is that you say its over priced (25K difference) but then a 2K incentive would make it ok.

I get wanting to get the best deal, that is something I think everyone understands.

One question, what happens if there are no incentives in Nov/Dec? What will you do then? Just curios.

I probably confused 2 issues. The 25K difference was between the MB 550 coupe and 650i coupe. I know they are not direct competitors, but I am cross shopping them. The BMW is the better car for sure, but I'm not sure it's $25,000 better. I did not really plan to spend 650 level money. I guess if I can get a great enough deal on the 650, I'll go for it. If no Dec incentives, I might go with the Benz, or I might wait - hell I'm curious what the new '14 vette will look like. Bottom line I'm in the market for a V8 rear wheel drive premium sport/GT.

Originally Posted by NoI4plz

European delivery is a great way to experience what the vehicle was designed for. There really aren't any savings, but it makes for one memorable trip and a chance to take a nice vacation with or without the family (lol) and the driving experience. If your doing it to get a fantastic price, I think the point of ED is lost, and your better off trying to special order/buy off the lot here.

Same thing with PCD, it's a driving experience, and somewhat of a vacation package rolled nto one, and stateside. Both of them offer an opportunity to get familiar with the vehicle, and make some memories in the process.

And the great thing about PCD is you can use any dealer in the country to order & get the best deal !

Originally Posted by chrischeung

I think you're putting words into my mouth - I never said your or I should pay sticker. I said if you want the best deal, wait. If you need a car now, you can go in and work with your dealer and pick up a car with the current incentives.

Yes - I don't want the best deal. That is because I'm not prepared to miss out on the better things in life by thinking they'll be cheaper down the road. I'll be the first to admit that I've overpaid for many things (including my current BMW), and underpaid for quite a bit more. Sure, I'll do my research, and often be patient for the deal, but when I don't get it, or see someone get a better deal, I don't think it's unfair, blame the seller, say something is overpriced etc.

But to me it's not how much I paid for something - it's what I was able to get out of it that is most important to me. It's a little sad - I've been on the Bimmerfest boards for 10 years+ give or take, and I've seen a lot of the enthusiasm for the cars been changed to a lot about how good a deal is (or not). From what I've seen over the years, by just having spent a couple of hours/days on these boards, the vast majority of people I would guess have gotten 80% of the potential savings at least of the best deal possible for their car - meaning if the best deal is $5000 off, then most folks would have gotten at least $4000 off. Just a guess on my part, but I'll put it out there. It's personally strange that people get upset over a few hundred dollars on a $50K+ purchase.

Bottom line - be happy, either way. If the deal works, get the car. If not, keep your cash.

I hear you -I'm not blaming the seller, but you have to admit BMW must see a problem with the 6 series price if they are offering $13,000 off 1 month into the model year. They won't move many without incentives IMO. And since I am in no hurry, I'm willing to wait until the optimum time to buy - I guess the hype leading up to the Oct deals had me going.
In addition I will likely special order & PCD, but my goal is still to maximize the deal. Don't buy something at this level to often, if you know what I mean. And if I can get that $2000-2500 end of year incentive, money in my pocket, not insignificant.

Originally Posted by mrjoed2

I hear you -I'm not blaming the seller, but you have to admit BMW must see a problem with the 6 series price if they are offering $13,000 off 1 month into the model year. They won't move many without incentives IMO. And since I am in no hurry, I'm willing to wait until the optimum time to buy - I guess the hype leading up to the Oct deals had me going.
In addition I will likely special order & PCD, but my goal is still to maximize the deal. Don't buy something at this level to often, if you know what I mean. And if I can get that $2000-2500 end of year incentive, money in my pocket, not insignificant.

2k you can hand over to tax man

Originally Posted by NoI4plz

2k you can hand over to tax man

True, but:

1) Tax bill will be based on sale price $2K less

2) I'll use BMW's $2K to pay about half my sale tax ( no car taxes here in FL, unlike my previous nightmare state RI)