Post E46 options for driving enthusiasts

Originally Posted by Fast Bob

If VW could manage to tighten up their QC a bit, they could be a serious player. They need a sporting RWD model in the lineup as well....

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So true. I had a MKIV Golf that liked to 'spiff up' the cabin with eau de coolant. That was the main reason why I overlooked the current Golf and turned to BMW. I'm glad I did for the short term...but there is not 1 car (except maybe the WRX) that I would consider right as a direct replacement for my touring. And even with the WRX, I know I am taking a step backwards in luxury but they are dang fun to drive

I debated for years what to get to compliment my well flogged 330 and finally chose a lightly optioned 535 (hoping to ward off electronic gremlins post year 7). I'll be the test monkey for long term ownership most likely as nearly everyone in the F10 forum is on a "3 year lease and turn it in plan" it appears (between shopping for $30k watches and debating 1st class/Business class flights).

A whole 3 weeks and 500 miles later I haven't regretted it. I can fit at least 5 bodies in the trunk, has plenty of power, is comfy as hell (especially coming from a tweaked out E46), handles great, the stereo/iDrive/integration stuff is fantastic, and it gets nearly 30mpg on the highway. Plus, my 64 year old mother can ride in it and not get carsick within 30 seconds and start complaining. That being said I'm still adding springs and an exhaust soon!

If budget allows the 330 will be replaced with an E46 M3 in about a year.

Also: Dan Neil was on that short lived Adam Corolla "The Car Show" not TGUSA, unless he was involved in the test pilot incarnations that Corolla was part of.

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

I debated for years what to get to complement my well flogged 330 and finally chose a lightly optioned 535 (hoping to ward off electronic gremlins post year 7). I'll be the test monkey for long term ownership most likely as nearly everyone in the F10 forum is on a "3 year lease and turn it in plan" it appears (between shopping for $30k watches and debating 1st class/Business class flights).

A whole 3 weeks and 500 miles later I haven't regretted it. I can fit at least 5 bodies in the trunk, has plenty of power, is comfy as hell (especially coming from a tweaked out E46), handles great, the stereo/iDrive/integration stuff is fantastic, and it gets nearly 30mpg on the highway. Plus, my 64 year old mother can ride in it and not get carsick within 30 seconds and start complaining. That being said I'm still adding springs and an exhaust soon!

If budget allows the 330 will be replaced with an E46 M3 in about a year.

Also: Dan Neill was on that short lived Adam Corolla "The Car Show" not TGUSA, unless he was involved in the test pilot incarnations that Corolla was part of.

With the newer models, it`s a real tightrope act between buying used (and letting the PO take a huge depreciation hit) and taking your chances on possible repairs, and selling your left testicle to purchase/lease something new. A couple years back, I was casually pricing out the cost of building a fairly-well-optioned 535i Touring, (just for ha has), and almost puked when I saw the MSRP had jumped the $70,000 mark (!). Definitely have to re-think the logic on that one....

Originally Posted by Fast Bob

With the newer models, it`s a real tightrope act between buying used (and letting the PO take a huge depreciation hit) and taking your chances on possible repairs, and selling your left testicle to purchase/lease something new. A couple years back, I was casually pricing out the cost of building a fairly-well-optioned 535i Touring, (just for ha has), and almost puked when I saw the MSRP had jumped the $70,000 mark (!). Definitely have to re-think the logic on that one....

MSRP is way overstated (knock off at least 8%) but I totally get you, the amount/costs of options you can pile onto these cars is staggering. Ventilated seats, ceramic controls, heads up display, NIGHT vision, adaptive drive, active steering, active cruise control, parking distance control, cameras, NAV, Bang and Olufsen stereo, self closing doors/trunk, etc etc etc is all fine but all stuff I won't miss since I've never had a car with any extra tech except an ipod port.

I basically had to order since I was getting only a few options (M-sport/DDC/Premium Stereo/Heated Seats) and a 6 speed MT, plus I wanted to wait till year 3 of production. Also, going back to Santa Barbara and getting another car from Jon Shafer 12 years after getting the first new one was fun too!

I love my 325i, and I still drive it fairly frequently, but since I'm not gonna be getting an M3 or anything like a CTS-V now or ever, I went with the Subaru BRZ as my 'fun' car. It's not 'fast' by any means (200hp/151tq/6.2s 0-60 w/6spd) but it's light and the handling is superb. On city roads/freeways, it doesn't feel like much, but as soon as you hit the twisties, it becomes an entirely different animal. I feel like I understand what it feels like to drive a ZHP now, and I love it. Definitely a car I recommend to people who are looking for that fun factor again.

Originally Posted by Chauntalei

I love my 325i, and I still drive it fairly frequently, but since I'm not gonna be getting an M3 or anything like a CTS-V now or ever, I went with the Subaru BRZ as my 'fun' car. It's not 'fast' by any means (200hp/151tq/6.2s 0-60 w/6spd) but it's light and the handling is superb. On city roads/freeways, it doesn't feel like much, but as soon as you hit the twisties, it becomes an entirely different animal. I feel like I understand what it feels like to drive a ZHP now, and I love it. Definitely a car I recommend to people who are looking for that fun factor again.

For the price, that`s an excellent choice....it`s probably like a closed-in Miyata, a light, nimble, great-handling car that you can drive pretty close to ten-tenths without killing yourself or going to jail for a long time....

Originally Posted by Fast Bob

For the price, that`s an excellent choice....it`s probably like a closed-in Miyata, a light, nimble, great-handling car that you can drive pretty close to ten-tenths without killing yourself or going to jail for a long time....

That's pretty much exactly it. I almost got myself a C5 Corvette Z06 for less overall money, instead of the BRZ, but I felt like I wouldn't really be able to push the Z06 to the limit without getting myself in trouble, or being on a track. Having 400+hp is great and all, but useless when you can't use it as often as you're gonna end up wanting to.

Originally Posted by Chauntalei

I love my 325i, and I still drive it fairly frequently, but since I'm not gonna be getting an M3 or anything like a CTS-V now or ever, I went with the Subaru BRZ as my 'fun' car. It's not 'fast' by any means (200hp/151tq/6.2s 0-60 w/6spd) but it's light and the handling is superb. On city roads/freeways, it doesn't feel like much, but as soon as you hit the twisties, it becomes an entirely different animal. I feel like I understand what it feels like to drive a ZHP now, and I love it. Definitely a car I recommend to people who are looking for that fun factor again.

Have you seen the turbocharged BRZ/FR-S yet? Seems like a peppy little car. 270 WHP? Yes please.

Originally Posted by Fast Bob

For the price, that`s an excellent choice....it`s probably like a closed-in Miyata, a light, nimble, great-handling car that you can drive pretty close to ten-tenths without killing yourself or going to jail for a long time....

Too bad they never sold a Miata coupe here.

I won't be buying another BMW unless its a E60 M5, E39 M5 supercharged or E46 M3 turbo. It's sad really, BMW went from being a top notch company with a car that's easy to work on and not to expensive to maintain. To a wtf is this and why did I buy it car. Ever since 06 they've gone nothing but down hill.

Originally Posted by MalibuMafiaV

I won't be buying another BMW unless its a E60 M5, E39 M5 supercharged or E46 M3 turbo. It's sad really, BMW went from being a top notch company with a car that's easy to work on and not to expensive to maintain. To a wtf is this and why did I buy it car. Ever since 06 they've gone nothing but down hill.

What will you buy instead?

There is no shortage of people who DIY on their E9x 3ers. I DIY'd my front brakes with no issues at all. There's also no shortage of E9x 3ers that have more than 100k miles that have been no more expensive to maintain than an E46. A guy in the E9x ///M forum just posted that he has over 150k miles and his car is in great shape.

Other than your opinion what empirical evidence to you have that BMW has done "nothing but go downhill" since 2006?

Originally Posted by Chauntalei

I love my 325i, and I still drive it fairly frequently, but since I'm not gonna be getting an M3 or anything like a CTS-V now or ever, I went with the Subaru BRZ as my 'fun' car. It's not 'fast' by any means (200hp/151tq/6.2s 0-60 w/6spd) but it's light and the handling is superb. On city roads/freeways, it doesn't feel like much, but as soon as you hit the twisties, it becomes an entirely different animal. I feel like I understand what it feels like to drive a ZHP now, and I love it. Definitely a car I recommend to people who are looking for that fun factor again.

Going to wait for the Subaru BRZ STi, hopefully they put a turbo or supercharger with the FA20.

Originally Posted by av98

Going to wait for the Subaru BRZ STi, hopefully they put a turbo or supercharger with the FA20.

IMHO, if they brought out a version with LSD and somewhere around 300 RWHP, they wouldn`t be able to build them fast enough....

Originally Posted by Fast Bob

IMHO, if they brought out a version with LSD and somewhere around 300 RWHP, they wouldn`t be able to build them fast enough....

It already comes with LSD even in it's current 200hp form.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Other than your opinion what empirical evidence to you have that BMW has done "nothing but go downhill" since 2006?

I don't think they've gone downhill, I think they've gone "upmarket". IMO they simply decided that their target customer cared less about DIY's than the "BMW Experience" of scheduling appointments for service and spending some time at the lush dealerships. There is an exclusivity in that treatment, one the newport smoking housewives and CEO types like. Smart move for BMW, and their sales prove it to be working. From that regard our Goverment Motors brands could learn a valuable lesson in being profitable.

Unfortunately for me, the "common" man with a less than common wallet, I am excluded. BMW went mainstream with the 3'er and 5'er and left the production of "drivers cars" to the ///M division. Now you have to pony up some serious cash to play with the big boys.

For me (call me Joe the Plumber), I will be content in my ZHP which is still the best non-M drivers car IMO, and wait till my kids graduate college. Maybe then I'll be able to afford a used E92 M3 or even find a mint E46 M3. OR, maybe I'll buy a used Shelby Mustang. Who knows.

We as "enthusiasts" tend to forget that what we want and what sells cars are two different things. BMW has to make a profit, and I applaud them for doing so, even if it hurts my feelings.

Originally Posted by Chauntalei

I feel like I understand what it feels like to drive a ZHP now, and I love it.

ZHP doesn't drive like a BRZ, it's very similar to your 325i.

I'm very interested to see the STI version of the BRZ.

I'd like to see maybe a 2.5L rather than a turbo. Supercharger would be cool but I doubt we'll see that, it'll either be N/A or a turbo.

Originally Posted by Chris90

ZHP doesn't drive like a BRZ, it's very similar to your 325i.

Actually it's more like a lighter ZHP, it's seriously a very good car w/o the top end autobahn gearing as with most import JDM cars that aren't in the upper sports stratosphere- GTR or LF-A. The BRZ/FRS are really designed as corner carvers like the Miata or Elise, they aren't fast in the straight line or top end speed but are best & comfortable when the road gets twisty.

Almost all JDM cars that I've driven don't have that past 120mph+ design that almost all Euro cars designed for the autobahn have.

Originally Posted by smolck

I don't think they've gone downhill, I think they've gone "upmarket". IMO they simply decided that their target customer cared less about DIY's than the "BMW Experience" of scheduling appointments for service and spending some time at the lush dealerships. There is an exclusivity in that treatment, one the newport smoking housewives and CEO types like. Smart move for BMW, and their sales prove it to be working. From that regard our Goverment Motors brands could learn a valuable lesson in being profitable.

Unfortunately for me, the "common" man with a less than common wallet, I am excluded. BMW went mainstream with the 3'er and 5'er and left the production of "drivers cars" to the ///M division. Now you have to pony up some serious cash to play with the big boys.

For me (call me Joe the Plumber), I will be content in my ZHP which is still the best non-M drivers car IMO, and wait till my kids graduate college. Maybe then I'll be able to afford a used E92 M3 or even find a mint E46 M3. OR, maybe I'll buy a used Shelby Mustang. Who knows.

We as "enthusiasts" tend to forget that what we want and what sells cars are two different things. BMW has to make a profit, and I applaud them for doing so, even if it hurts my feelings.

I can see you in an E46 ///M3 before anything else. A 1-Series ///M Coupe comes in second. Other than that, I foresee the ZHP achieving 325,000 miles.

EDIT: Actually... I found your next car. 1985 E30 Alpina race car with an S54. I bet this little sucker FLIES.

http://www.bhambroker.com/1985_BMW_3..._157918581.veh

Originally Posted by av98

Actually it's more like a lighter ZHP, it's seriously a very good car w/o the top end autobahn gearing as with most import JDM cars that aren't in the upper sports stratosphere- GTR or LF-A. The BRZ/FRS are really designed as corner carvers like the Miata or Elise, they aren't fast in the straight line or top end speed but are best & comfortable when the road gets twisty.

Almost all JDM cars that I've driven don't have that past 120mph+ design that almost all Euro cars designed for the autobahn have.

My VR4 didn't mind going over 120mph. A stage two HKS Turbo kit didn't hurt though

I know I am a lot younger than most of you guys but I still have been around many different t cars. I mean hell I drive/build a racecar for run. In all the cars I have had the pleasure of driving nothing has felt as put together as an E46 that includes other BMWs. I have had a much faster car that still was as pleasing to drive. Even when your not taking hard corners just sitting behind the wheel has a special feeling. Everybody that I have let drive my car will say something like "wow this feels great," or "man I want to race." Even my gf said it makes her want to dive fast. I don't even have a ZHP let alone an M. As fast as a pure drivers car you either need a real race car or classic to have as much fun.

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Originally Posted by smolck

We as "enthusiasts" tend to forget that what we want and what sells cars are two different things. BMW has to make a profit, and I applaud them for doing so, even if it hurts my feelings.

*slow clap*

Originally Posted by TannerT

My VR4 didn't mind going over 120mph. A stage two HKS Turbo kit didn't hurt though

I know I am a lot younger than most of you guys but I still have been around many different t cars. I mean hell I drive/build a racecar for run. In all the cars I have had the pleasure of driving nothing has felt as put together as an E46 that includes other BMWs. I have had a much faster car that still was as pleasing to drive. Even when your not taking hard corners just sitting behind the wheel has a special feeling. Everybody that I have let drive my car will say something like "wow this feels great," or "man I want to race." Even my gf said it makes her want to dive fast. I don't even have a ZHP let alone an M. As fast as a pure drivers car you either need a real race car or classic to have as much fun.

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I should have said stock cars w/o modifications. My MR2 SC AW11 didn't mind 130mph either but it was way beyond stock. Just for clarification this was a Galant VR4 right, not a VW VR4? Cuz if it's a VW it's definitely not a JDM import.

Ohhh no 3000GT

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Originally Posted by tturedraider

What will you buy instead?

There is no shortage of people who DIY on their E9x 3ers. I DIY'd my front brakes with no issues at all. There's also no shortage of E9x 3ers that have more than 100k miles that have been no more expensive to maintain than an E46. A guy in the E9x ///M forum just posted that he has over 150k miles and his car is in great shape.

Other than your opinion what empirical evidence to you have that BMW has done "nothing but go downhill" since 2006?

Well I was going to get a E60 M5 and I got a Maserati instead. I won't sell my E46 and I'll keep it. If I get another car it'll most likely be either a Maserati sedan, Bently Conti GT hard top or ferrari modena. But in the back of my mind it also tells me to buy an Evo 8, B5 S4 or Skyline GTR R35 and mod the crap out of them.

Originally Posted by av98

Going to wait for the Subaru BRZ STi, hopefully they put a turbo or supercharger with the FA20.

Personally, after having driven my BRZ for almost 6 months, I really don't think it needs any more power in terms of HP. I wouldn't mind a little more torque (something closer to 200hp/175-200lbft would be nice) but I think more raw power completely defeats the balance that the car comes with as it stands now. That's just my opinion though.