Is the new 3 series is losing US market share?

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Of course.

He just wants to play with the adults. If you haven't checked out the E90 forum, you should.

This thread in particular you may find interesting:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=647233

I'm trying to teach them about xenon lights and other technical marvels that have occurred since 2005.

BJ

For someone claims to be an adult, you sure don't sound like one. I do know from my own experience, when guys reach a certain senior age, he would act like a child, and has to be treated like one.

According to Jon, BMW is providing some real good trunk money on the F30s this month. We will see how the next several months look like. It will be a real battle in this segment.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

the CC is like a german TL

Cc is a looker. TL was one too up until '08 or so when the beak redesign came. Honda does not and has not made a car i would consider since the s2000.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

Cc is a looker. TL was one too up until '08 or so when the beak redesign came. Honda does not and has not made a car i would consider since the s2000.

im not talking looks wise, more value. (that 30k range) lots of standard features..

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Of course.

He just wants to play with the adults. If you haven't checked out the E90 forum, you should.

This thread in particular you may find interesting:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=647233

I'm trying to teach them about xenon lights and other technical marvels that have occurred since 2005.

BJ

From the 2007 3 Series owners manual.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Of course.

He just wants to play with the adults. If you haven't checked out the E90 forum, you should.

This thread in particular you may find interesting:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=647233

I'm trying to teach them about xenon lights and other technical marvels that have occurred since 2005.

BJ

From the 2007 3 Series owners manual:

Originally Posted by dtc100

For someone claims to be an adult, you sure don't sound like one. I do know from my own experience, when guys reach a certain senior age, he would act like a child, and has to be treated like one.

According to Jon, BMW is providing some real good trunk money on the F30s this month. We will see how the next several months look like. It will be a real battle in this segment.

You bought one of the last E90's made, you're two full years away from your next lease, you come into the F30 forum praising every car in the F30's segment except for the F30, and you wonder why you sometimes get criticized.

Your purpose here is clear. Please stop harassing the F30 owners and those truly interested in it's success. All you care about is it's failure.

Appreciate your cooperation.

BJ

Originally Posted by captainaudio

From the 2007 3 Series owners manual.

(I know. I was being sarcastic.)

BJ

Originally Posted by tturedraider

An equivalently equipped 2013 328i would have an MSRP only marginally higher than your 2011 model.

At this point in my life unless I'm in a new job by the end of my lease I'm trying to reduce my monthly payment. A 2013 equipped exactly like my 2011 by the way is $4000.00 more. Yes it has more features but in 2011 the value package gave free leather. That's a $1500.00 hit now.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

im not talking looks wise, more value. (that 30k range) lots of standard features..

Until i lose my sight, such a thing will always be as big a factor as value. Just as well liked as the CC styling gas been, the opposite has been felt about the TL.

The Maxima is a CC competitor too. Pass.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

At this point in my life unless I'm in a new job by the end of my lease I'm trying to reduce my monthly payment. A 2013 equipped exactly like my 2011 by the way is $4000.00 more. Yes it has more features but in 2011 the value package gave free leather. That's a $1500.00 hit now.

And in 2017 the same thing will be available. Just hunker down.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

You bought one of the last E90's made, you're two full years away from your next lease, you come into the F30 forum praising every car in the F30's segment except for the F30, and you wonder why you sometimes get criticized.

Your purpose here is clear. Please stop harassing the F30 owners and those truly interested in it's success. All you care about is it's failure.

Appreciate your cooperation.

BJ

When someone is truly happy with what he has, negatives never get to him, unless if he is a child. A person easily becomes defensive usually has somethings he does not like about himself.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

At this point in my life unless I'm in a new job by the end of my lease I'm trying to reduce my monthly payment. A 2013 equipped exactly like my 2011 by the way is $4000.00 more. Yes it has more features but in 2011 the value package gave free leather. That's a $1500.00 hit now.

Just for curiosity what options does your car have?

Originally Posted by dtc100

When someone is truly happy with what he has, negatives never get to him, unless if he is a child. A person easily becomes defensive usually has somethings he does not like about himself.

Negatives don't get to me, Doctor Freud, stupidity does.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Negatives don't get to me, Doctor Freud, stupidity does.

BJ

I'll take your word for it.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

...A 2013 equipped exactly like my 2011 by the way is $4000.00 more. Yes it has more features but in 2011 the value package gave free leather. That's a $1500.00 hit now.

Actually, my situation is similar, but a bit more extreme. A comparison between the Monroney sticker prices of my 2011 328i and an equivalent 2013 328i shows an increase of well over $5000. This does NOT take into account any discounts, rebates, or financing incentives.

My 2011 includes the following: 6-speed manual transmission, leather seats (ZVP value package), Xenon headlights, HK stereo system, heated seats, etc. My 2011 does NOT include the Premium Package, or any other major package options (except ZVP). The 2013 to which I am comparing my car has exactly the same options (as near to identical as allowed by the BMW USA website). No Premium Package or Lines are a part of this comparison.

I am not saying that this will necessarily prevent me from buying an F30. Nonetheless, the increase in the MSRP is staggering.

Originally Posted by alpinweiss

Actually, my situation is similar, but a bit more extreme. A comparison between the Monroney sticker prices of my 2011 328i and an equivalent 2013 328i shows an increase of well over $5000. This does NOT take into account any discounts, rebates, or financing incentives.

My 2011 includes the following: 6-speed manual transmission, leather seats (ZVP value package), Xenon headlights, HK stereo system, heated seats, etc. My 2011 does NOT include the Premium Package, or any other major package options (except ZVP). The 2013 to which I am comparing my car has exactly the same options (as near to identical as allowed by the BMW USA website). No Premium Package or Lines are a part of this comparison.

I am not saying that this will necessarily prevent me from buying an F30. Nonetheless, the increase in the MSRP is staggering.

Many of us currently in F30's received deals that have us at or below our E90 levels on comparably equipped cars.

What's not reflected anywhere is the pull-ahead program with 2 months of lease forgiveness, the $1000 test drive, the $300 BMW app credit, and the usual throw-in's like heated seats or winter mats. Added up, I got close to $2,100 in discounts. The MSRP reflected on BMWUSA.com is misleading. My configuration there shows a $600 monthly payment. I'm paying $539.

BJ

Lots of good comments here with the exception of the comment of the E93 looking "tired and stale". I will put the looks of my 2013 red vert against the new sedan any time. That isnt meant to be a bash on the F30 as I do like the F30 and would happily have one if I needed a sedan. But I don't

The F30 is a change with the times and any kinks real or perceived will be worked out. The knocks against the four are being shortsighted. CAFE is here to stay. My favorite BMW still today was my first one, a 1979 320 which was a four cylinder.

Just wanted to say a lot of us E9x owners like the F30 as well, so no need to throw knocks at us or our "tired and stale" cars.

Lots of good comments here with the exception of the comment of the E93 looking "tired and stale". I will put the looks of my 2013 red vert against the new sedan any time. That isnt meant to be a bash on the F30 as I do like the F30 and would happily have one if I needed a sedan. But I don't

The F30 is a change with the times and any kinks real or perceived will be worked out. The knocks against the four are being shortsighhted. CAFE is here to stay. My favorite BMW still today was my first one, a 1979 320 which was a four cylinder.

Just wanted to say a lot of us E9x owners like the F30 as well, so no need to throw knocks at us or our "tired and stale" cars.

Has anyone factored in X1 and X3 sales? These have becomes reasonable alternatives to the 3 series at this point.

Originally Posted by irianjim

Just wanted to say a lot of us E9x owners like the F30 as well, so no need to throw knocks at us or our "tired and stale" cars.

Whether a car look good or not is subjective, but being "tired and stale" has some objectivity to it.

If a car has being the same look for very long, in the case of the E90, 8 years, AND there are so many of them you see the same look many times a day, yes it can be "tired and stale". I like the look of E90, but totally understand it when people say the above.

On the other hand, many people, even those who drive BMWs, when look at the F30, often mistaken it for the F10 5 series. I wouldn't call such look "refreshing and exciting" when your own enthusiasts cannot tell what it is, it lacks creativity when you simply shrink a 5 down to 3.

If look is the only measure, the "tired and stale" but refreshed C (and maybe even A4) win over the new F30, if for nothing else, the styling stands on its own.

I had a very interesting conversation with my CA yesterday. he called to make arrangements for delivery and for me to setup insurance etc. I asked him how well are the F30's selling. he said not as good as they thought, and here is the interesting part. He said he could probably move every 335i he could lay his hands on but the 328i there are plenty on the lots. He thought it maybe the fact that this is the first 4-cylinder 3-series in a while. He added most people are like you man, when they go with some of the options they don't see why not spend the extra 4k and go with the 335i. Thus they are very short on 335i on the lots and the allocation for them is hard to get.

After that conversation I think some of us have it dead on. BWM would be buyers will need to get over the 4-cylinder stigma and BMW has not done a great job with advertising the car. I mean I wonder how many buyers out there know the 4-cylinder is a lot more powerful than the N52 it replaces and super economical to boot. Add the fact that just a few options and a package takes the car north of 45K fast and there you have it.

As for the "tired and stall" comment for the E9x models that is total BS. The reason why it may seem this way is because they are everywhere. I mean where I live if I had one I would see myself coming and going every 15th car.

Any statement with a valid reason behind it, by definition cannot be a total BS. This is not an opinion, rather a statement of fact

The reason 335i is short in supply is likely because they don't build many. BMW needs the 328i to meet CAFE, this is rather a unique issue with BMW in this segment, they don't have non-luxury subsidiaries with economy models to help meeting CAFE.

The 4 bangers are well received by the C and A4 buyers. Maybe BMW drivers are more demanding, but I still say it is more a production issue. They cannot build too many, therefore they don't have enough to sell.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Any statement with a valid reason behind it, by definition cannot be a total BS. This is not an opinion, rather a statement of fact

The reason 335i is short in supply is likely because they don't build many. BMW needs the 328i to meet CAFE, this is rather a unique issue with BMW in this segment, they don't have non-luxury subsidiaries with economy models to help meeting CAFE.

The 4 bangers are well received by the C and A4 buyers. Maybe BMW drivers are more demanding, but I still say it is more a production issue. They cannot build too many, therefore they don't have enough to sell.

How can it be a production issue when dealers are telling you they have plenty of 328i on their lots.

Originally Posted by windsor027

How can it be a production issue when dealers are telling you they have plenty of 328i on their lots.

Let me try it this way. To meet CAFE, BMW must sell 20 328s (for argument sake), for each 335 they move, then here is your answer. For each 335i allocation, the dealers must accept this number of 328s, but there are not 20 times of 335 buyers who will buy 328s.

Having said that, I am reminded that the 335i is very close to 328i in mpg ratings. Then my speculation could be a total BS.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Just for curiosity what options does your car have?

2011 328i E90
-Metallic paint
-Value Package
-Heated seats
-BMW Assist (to get bluetooth which is now std)
-Power rear shade.

Retail was about $36,500.00.

A base F30 with these options (including leather) is about $40,500.00.