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  #126  
Old 10-03-2012, 08:29 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoed2 View Post
True, but:

1) Tax bill will be based on sale price $2K less

2) I'll use BMW's $2K to pay about half my sale tax ( no car taxes here in FL, unlike my previous nightmare state RI)
Hey Joe, if it was me definitely didn't mean to insult, was just curious. To be honest I prefer the e550 looks over 650. IMO the 650 lines area bit outdated.

Now don't kill the messenger but as far sales tax, check again. My car is being leased as a FL resident and their is definitely sales tax. Lived there (legally at least) for over20years.
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  #127  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:16 PM
mrjoed2 mrjoed2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
Hey Joe, if it was me definitely didn't mean to insult, was just curious. To be honest I prefer the e550 looks over 650. IMO the 650 lines area bit outdated.

Now don't kill the messenger but as far sales tax, check again. My car is being leased as a FL resident and their is definitely sales tax. Lived there (legally at least) for over20years.
Miamiboyca,

I respectfully disagree with the looks of the 650 vs e550. The 550 is actually a 2010 design, now in it's 4th year. The 650 was all new for 2012. I think it's rolling artwork, with that long hood, low and wide with the LED head lights on "20 rims. I must admit the Benz coupe is a little frumpy in comparison.

And on the taxes, I was saying the $2k would cover about half the 650's FL sales tax on it - the car taxes I was referring to were car property taxes most states levy - but not FL
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  #128  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:51 PM
coldintake coldintake is offline
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Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post

But to me it's not how much I paid for something - it's what I was able to get out of it that is most important to me. It's a little sad - I've been on the Bimmerfest boards for 10 years+ give or take, and I've seen a lot of the enthusiasm for the cars been changed to a lot about how good a deal is (or not). From what I've seen over the years, by just having spent a couple of hours/days on these boards, the vast majority of people I would guess have gotten 80% of the potential savings at least of the best deal possible for their car - meaning if the best deal is $5000 off, then most folks would have gotten at least $4000 off. Just a guess on my part, but I'll put it out there. It's personally strange that people get upset over a few hundred dollars on a $50K+ purchase.

Bottom line - be happy, either way. If the deal works, get the car. If not, keep your cash.
I agree... but I think that stands true for the dealers as well. Some dealers claim that extra $100-300 discount on a 50k will make the dealership go out of business, children will starve, and there will be riots on the streets.
There is no other business shrouded in so much secrecy as the car buying business.
The buyer rarely knows: What's fair, what the cost is, how much profit is being made, and what all the possible incentives are for both the buyer and the seller.
If it wasn't for buyers knowing the money factor, they could be getting ripped off, simply because BMWFS allows dealers to tack on that adder. If you got rid of that, you would get a flat rate from the lease end everywhere and the buyer would know which dealer is actually giving the most dollars off on the car.

In anycase...Fair is fair... if a deal can be made, the marketplace will allow it. Luckily we live in a world where buyers nor sellers are forced to engage in trading goods.

Last edited by coldintake; 10-03-2012 at 09:52 PM.
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  #129  
Old 10-03-2012, 10:29 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by coldintake View Post
I agree... but I think that stands true for the dealers as well. Some dealers claim that extra $100-300 discount on a 50k will make the dealership go out of business, children will starve, and there will be riots on the streets.
Agree completely, and we do the same in return...


Quote:
Originally Posted by coldintake View Post
There is no other business shrouded in so much secrecy as the car buying business.
The buyer rarely knows: What's fair, what the cost is, how much profit is being made, and what all the possible incentives are for both the buyer and the seller.
Here I completely disagree. If you bought a brand-new home do you really know how much it cost the builder to build it? When you upgrade windows on your laptop or your desktop do you really know how much it cost Microsoft to develop it?

As with most purchases what is important is that you get value for your money. That value can only be determined by the you the buyer and the value it brings to you.
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Last edited by miamiboyca; 10-03-2012 at 10:42 PM.
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  #130  
Old 10-03-2012, 10:52 PM
coldintake coldintake is offline
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Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
Agree completely, and we do the same in return...




Here I completely disagree. If you bought a brand-new home do you really know how much it cost the builder to build it? When you upgrade windows on your laptop or your desktop do you really know how much it cost Microsoft to develop it?

As with most purchases what is important is that you get value for your money. That value can only be determined by the buyers. And the value it brings to you.
I suppose I should rephrase myself.
The typical car dealer constantly tries to withhold information from buyers, because they are a middle man in the game. This isn't like buying a product direct from the manufacturer like Windows or an Iphone. It's as buying those products from a person, that can tack on fees/costs, unannounced to the buyer.
This isn't really like buying any other product... If you see cereal too expensive at one store, you may consider buying the same brand somewhere else. You are limited to buying a new car from an Authorized dealer... and that's where the trouble begins.

I get it, this is the structure and the dealerships need to make money...
But i'm willing to say that more buyers have been screwed by dealers than vice versa.

The value you're speaking comes in many forms... there is perceived value and an actual value component. A salesman's job is to increase the perceived value to the buyer... the actual value of the car remains the same.

Besides, buying a car is two prong financial situation. There is the buying price of the car... and there is the finance end of things. Very few products except people's homes are financed and as we all know, there are a lot rules for buying a home... and alot of shady activities there too.
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  #131  
Old 10-03-2012, 11:08 PM
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If anything, thanks to the internet and forums like this, people can actually become more informed about cars than in many other industries. Did anyone ever negotiate a couch, or a laptop, or a plane ticket from invoice up? Probably not.

And if some people pay more than others for the same car, it doesn't mean they are getting ripped off by the dealers. It just means they didn't care enough to do their homework beforehand. Kind of like buying a laptop at full price from Store A vs. buying it on sale, with a coupon, from Store B.
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  #132  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:22 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by the_fox View Post
If anything, thanks to the internet and forums like this, people can actually become more informed about cars than in many other industries. Did anyone ever negotiate a couch, or a laptop, or a plane ticket from invoice up? Probably not.

And if some people pay more than others for the same car, it doesn't mean they are getting ripped off by the dealers. It just means they didn't care enough to do their homework beforehand. Kind of like buying a laptop at full price from Store A vs. buying it on sale, with a coupon, from Store B.
+1

The mention of cereal in the previous post - How do you know the cereal is more expensive at place A - ahhh because at some point you learned what the cereal should cost.

I am not saying there are not shady dealers, there are plenty - but that is true in any transaction. And believe me I have gotten screwed in a deal here or there but I blame myself for not doing the research. iT has always been when I was lazy about it and went in unprepared. IMO In the internet age, the information is always out there - there is no excuse (except laziness IMO) for paying too much for anything,

In a free market system it will always be "caveat emptor", and the internet has made that much easier for the consumer who wants to get a good deal.
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Last edited by miamiboyca; 10-04-2012 at 01:25 AM.
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  #133  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:22 AM
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Wait, aside from basically change in interest rate or residual value, there is nothing else. I was hoping for option credit, ultra low apr. Nothing really motivating.
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  #134  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:27 AM
mrjoed2 mrjoed2 is offline
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You got it - nothing. They actually dropped the option credits on the 2012's. Up to last month for example $4500 option credit on the 6 series - this month $0. Good luck moving them. Sit tight, let the stock build up, they will have to bring something serious to the table before end of year.
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  #135  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:13 AM
djsaad1 djsaad1 is offline
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Even though there is no option credit yet, I am very pleased with them upping the residual on the gran coupe by 4% and lowering the mf as well. That is much better for me than a $2500 credit. If they keep these rates plus add an option credit next month I would be ecstatic.
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  #136  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:45 AM
Justin@NCBMW Justin@NCBMW is offline
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Originally Posted by mrjoed2 View Post
You got it - nothing. They actually dropped the option credits on the 2012's. Up to last month for example $4500 option credit on the 6 series - this month $0. Good luck moving them. Sit tight, let the stock build up, they will have to bring something serious to the table before end of year.
Sorry to disppoint but I can assure you there will be no more support coming from BMW on MY12s.
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  #137  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:56 AM
Justin@NCBMW Justin@NCBMW is offline
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goodness...every month we get the what will the next month bring thread...

Nov/Dec will most likely bring back holiday credit and/or option credit BUT residuals will drop...like it or not that is how the game is played. The best thing to do is LOCK yourself in...

Bottom line ...if you dont feel comfortable with the deal...walk away...it's just business
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  #138  
Old 10-04-2012, 11:57 AM
mrjoed2 mrjoed2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Justin@NCBMW View Post
Sorry to disppoint but I can assure you there will be no more support coming from BMW on MY12s.

Ok with me, looking at a order for a '13. Just saying it will that much harder to move the leftover '12's.
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  #139  
Old 10-04-2012, 12:19 PM
Justin@NCBMW Justin@NCBMW is offline
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Ok with me, looking at a order for a '13. Just saying it will that much harder to move the leftover '12's.
I hear ya...it is what it is...it's a never ending cycle.
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  #140  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:37 PM
mrjoed2 mrjoed2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Justin@NCBMW View Post
goodness...every month we get the what will the next month bring thread...

Nov/Dec will most likely bring back holiday credit and/or option credit BUT residuals will drop...like it or not that is how the game is played. The best thing to do is LOCK yourself in...

Bottom line ...if you dont feel comfortable with the deal...walk away...it's just business
Hey is that not the great thing about forums like this?

I am banking on the holiday cash or option credit. In my case with a buy, residuals don't matter. And it is just business, and business is about money. And timing can be everything.
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  #141  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:51 PM
Justin@NCBMW Justin@NCBMW is offline
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Originally Posted by mrjoed2 View Post
Hey is that not the great thing about forums like this?

I am banking on the holiday cash or option credit. In my case with a buy, residuals don't matter. And it is just business, and business is about money. And timing can be everything.
Forums like this? yes and no but thats for another thread at another time...

You are the buyer...so you are in the driver's seat...you make the final decision on where you want to spend your $$$
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  #142  
Old 10-04-2012, 04:56 PM
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Jon Shafer Jon Shafer is offline
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There will likely be additional Sales Support throttled ahead in November and/or December. I think we can all agree on that...

All the more reason to place your custom factory order right now (right now, right now).



SO YOU CAN BE BURNING RUBBER OVER THE HOLIDAYS
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  #143  
Old 10-04-2012, 05:13 PM
mrjoed2 mrjoed2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jon Shafer View Post
There will likely be additional Sales Support throttled ahead in November and/or December. I think we can all agree on that...

All the more reason to place your custom factory order right now (right now, right now).



SO YOU CAN BE BURNING RUBBER OVER THE HOLIDAYS
Jon,

I will be placing a custom factory order - and as you mention sales support likely before end of year. If I place the order now, does BMW honor those incentives when I take delivery - (basically asking if they will add whatever incentive develops to my deal)

Thanks
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  #144  
Old 10-04-2012, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjoed2 View Post
Jon,

I will be placing a custom factory order - and as you mention sales support likely before end of year. If I place the order now, does BMW honor those incentives when I take delivery - (basically asking if they will add whatever incentive develops to my deal)

Thanks

As long as you have a dealer that agrees to pass on any additional incentives to you, you will be fine. Some dealers will take orders and then scoop the extra profit later if given the opportunity. With my customers when I take an order, the "meeting of the minds" includes the understanding that I will pass on future incentives to them.

In the case of finance/lease deals, the most prudent thing that you can do (you'll see me post this over and over and over again) is get pre-approved by applying directly to BMWFS online when you leave your deposit for the order. That way you are locked/covered whichever way the wind blows. If programs improve, you go with the new program. If programs get worse (e.g., loss of an incentive, residual decay, LMF increase), you simply stay with the program that was in effect at the time of the issuance of the approval.

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  #145  
Old 10-04-2012, 06:41 PM
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So, once the order is placed, it's better to apply on line than through the dealer?
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  #146  
Old 10-04-2012, 06:55 PM
mrjoed2 mrjoed2 is offline
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Shafer View Post
As long as you have a dealer that agrees to pass on any additional incentives to you, you will be fine. Some dealers will take orders and then scoop the extra profit later if given the opportunity. With my customers when I take an order, the "meeting of the minds" includes the understanding that I will pass on future incentives to them.

In the case of finance/lease deals, the most prudent thing that you can do (you'll see me post this over and over and over again) is get pre-approved by applying directly to BMWFS online when you leave your deposit for the order. That way you are locked/covered whichever way the wind blows. If programs improve, you go with the new program. If programs get worse (e.g., loss of an incentive, residual decay, LMF increase), you simply stay with the program that was in effect at the time of the issuance of the approval.

Jon,

Thanks for the info. In my case it's a purchase using USAA, so I won't be using BMWFS.
So I would have to get dealer agreement as you mention - is that ever put in writing on the order?
One other question you might have the answer to. Would like to time my order for a 650 coupe to get the updated Idrive 4.2 I have read posts as to the date production will start to include it, but nothing official, do you happen to know.

Thanks again.
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  #147  
Old 10-04-2012, 08:40 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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So, once the order is placed, it's better to apply on line than through the dealer?
I think you need to approved in order to place your order.
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  #148  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:51 AM
Justin@NCBMW Justin@NCBMW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoed2 View Post
Jon,

I will be placing a custom factory order - and as you mention sales support likely before end of year. If I place the order now, does BMW honor those incentives when I take delivery - (basically asking if they will add whatever incentive develops to my deal)

Thanks
Actually not all BMW special offers qualify for P1(ordered) cars. Some offers are lockable; some are not. Some offers do not apply to vehicles ordered before the introduction of the offer. For example TM USA credit can not be combined to an ordered car pre event.

Also, there are limitations as to what may and may not be combined with USAA
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Last edited by Justin@NCBMW; 10-05-2012 at 09:55 AM.
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  #149  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:30 AM
mrjoed2 mrjoed2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@NCBMW View Post
Actually not all BMW special offers qualify for P1(ordered) cars. Some offers are lockable; some are not. Some offers do not apply to vehicles ordered before the introduction of the offer. For example TM USA credit can not be combined to an ordered car pre event.

Also, there are limitations as to what may and may not be combined with USAA
Thanks Justin,

Good info to have on the order question.

I have seen a few offers that can't be stacked with USAA, the drive for team USA for example. But I think most can such as option credits, holiday cash,ect. USAA fine print reads "This incentive can be combined with all current retail offers unless otherwise stated"

Also , do you happen to know anything about the production start for the new version of Idrive in the 6 series?
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  #150  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:43 AM
Justin@NCBMW Justin@NCBMW is offline
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Originally Posted by mrjoed2 View Post
Thanks Justin,


Also , do you happen to know anything about the production start for the new version of Idrive in the 6 series?
Officially...No
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