2012 Scion FR-S

Originally Posted by OBS3SSION

Heh, I may even think this car is overpowered. Sometimes I'd love a car I could rev the crap out of, shift up to 5th or 6th gear, feeling like I'm giving it all the beans, then look at the speedo and see that I'm only doing 60.

You know... something that was fun to drive. Not something to get you to unreasonable speeds on public roads in less than 5 seconds. I love my M3, but I'm already breaking too many laws halfway through second gear!

Yea, I'd be fine with even less power. I've long thought that 100hp per ton is adequate for a street car. That'd give about 135hp for a 2700 lb car, or like the E90 320si I rented for driving around the 'Ring, 170 hp in a 3400 car. My first few cars had far less power, and being able to rev the snot out of them while rowing the gears on a daily basis was fun.

My first car was a 54 HP VW Jetta diesel. I got my first ticket in that car and nearly killed myself more than once. But it sure was nice filling it up every 2-3 weeks at something like $0.50 per gallon!

Originally Posted by cwsqbm

I think I saw $28,000 estimate in Car and Driver. If that's the case, count me out. I like the design, but I can could get a Mustang V-6 for a lot less money and be ahead in almost every performance benchmark. Given that the ricer fanboys will eat up the supply for sometime making getting one for MSRP difficult, I'd just as soon have a 128i for similar money.

this is my exact thought I'm torn between the frs and the 128.I really like the look of the frs but a bmw is a bmw.any help on sorting this out?

I'm also fine with the hp rating of the engine, but I would like the car to have a more standard Toyota engine simply because I think the car would be capable of lasting decades with very little repair and standard maintenance. The Subaru boxer may turn out to be as good, but their traditional head gasket issues and my learning that the service manual calls for lifting the engine to change the spark plugs is a little disconcerting.

Still, I've been waiting to test drive one. My local Toyota dealer received four recently, but they are all automatics. That's just tragic.

I'd buy a BRZ STI right now if Subie brought it.

Originally Posted by mr29

this is my exact thought I'm torn between the frs and the 128.I really like the look of the frs but a bmw is a bmw.any help on sorting this out?

I love BMW and it'll, I'm sure be a better drivers car with a better feel. However, physics is physics and when you consider the fact the FRS is close to 500lbs lighter; probably has a lower Center of Gravity due to its boxer engine, and has a ridiculous .27 drag coefficient paired with a high revving 200hp engine...I doubt its going to be much of a competition in handling or straight line acceleration unless one of the cars has much better or worse gearing than the other. It's also got a double wishbone rear suspension.

But then again, yeah...its fast...but other than that? Not much to it. The 128i is more expensive, but you get a much better all around car.

Not to mention a 128i is 10000x better for daily driving. Reason is because it has a substantial amount of torque at very low rpm. If you want any acceleration in a FRS, you're going to have to rev the heck out of it to like 5000rpm+. Good for a track, not good for daily. Also, probably more comfortable and enjoyable.

Originally Posted by Bandem

I love BMW and it'll, I'm sure be a better drivers car with a better feel. However, physics and physics and when you consider the fact the FRS is close to 500lbs lighter; probably has a lower Center of Gravity due to its boxer engine, and has a ridiculous .27 drag coefficient paired with a high revving 200hp engine...I doubt its going to be much of a competition in handling or straight line acceleration unless one of the cars has much better or worse gearing than the other. It's also got a double wishbone rear suspension.

But then again, yeah...its fast...but other than that? Not much to it. The 128i is more expensive, but you get a much better all around car.

Not to mention a 128i is 10000x better for daily driving. Reason is because it has a substantial amount of torque at very low rpm. If you want any acceleration in a FRS, you're going to have to rev the heck out of it to like 5000rpm+. Good for a track, not good for daily. Also, probably more comfortable and enjoyable.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Well done!

- Mike

Spring Mountain Test Loop Lap Times

Scion FR-S (Dunlop tires) _ 1:27.0

Mazdaspeed 3 _ 1:27.6

Subaru WRX _ 1:28.3

The Subaru-Scion twins are shod with Michelin Primacy HP 87W GreenX summer touring tires. Buy a Prius in Europe upgraded with 17-in. wheels, and you’ll get these same sad tires. That’s right, these sporty coupes have hybrid tires, tuned for low rolling resistance, not grip.

But what happens when you slap on some sticky stuff? Will it go quicker? Will it ruin the sublime handling? With those questions in mind, we ordered a set of autocross-winning Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Specs in the factory size (215/45-17) that retail for $146 each at Tire Rack.

Install the Dunlops on the stock wheels, and presto-bingo! We have a new winner. The FR-S dropped 2.3 sec. with a simple tire swap. And not only does the car maintain its wonderful balance, it’s vastly improved. The FR-S’ sharp steering is enhanced by the tires’ grip, providing a dramatic increase in feedback—with the Dunlops’ greater forgiveness at higher slip angles, you can literally turn the steering wheel more. The rear rotates more gently on turn-in and the suspension easily handles the added grip. This is the way the FR-S was meant to run!

If you own a BRZ or FR-S, you owe it to yourself to upgrade the tires and feel the way your car was meant to drive.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-...transformation

2012 Motor Trend Best Driver’s Car

1. Porsche 911 Carrera S

2. Mercedes C63 AMG Black Series

3. Nissan GT-R Black Edition

4. Subaru BRZ

5. McLaren MP4-12C

Source: Nov 2012 Motor Trend

fun car to drive, feels slower than it really is though, and the engine note is terrible. still, the steering, shifter, and handling are almost perfect. it's obvious after driving it how much it would benefit from real tires. i may be crazy but it feels even more precise than a lotus elise

they finally did a bit for this car on top gear.it faired pretty well

Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App

I've been offered a sneak peek drive of the race-prepared Long Beach Grand Prix car next week on a track.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/07/t...to-fr-s-w-vid/

Last car I drove on that track (a few weeks ago) was a Mercedes-Benz SLS GT... should actually be more fun with a lower horsepower car.

- Mike

anybody here driven the frs and can compare it to a BMW

Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App

Originally Posted by mr29

anybody here driven the frs and can compare it to a BMW

Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App

What BMW would even compete with it? Any magazine that decided to compare them would only talk about how the BRZ is "fun to drive" but how "the interior isn't as nice and it overall lacks the refinement of the BMW blah blah blah."



A couple guys on BFC are sick of their BRZs after only a couple months. Not enough power to make it fun as a DD, but they said its awesome when you want to go for a fun drive. Not sure why they haven't released a turbo version with around 250bhp

yea i hear the insides suck and the lack of power kills this thing.heard there is going to be an brz sti but neither is going to do a turbo

Originally Posted by mr29

yea i hear the insides suck and the lack of power kills this thing.heard there is going to be an brz sti but neither is going to do a turbo

The car kicks ass. It is a sub-$30,000 that will put a smile on your face in each corner. Think of it as a closed-roof Miata.

- Mike

I'm going to give it a test drive to see what its about

Originally Posted by mr29

I'm going to give it a test drive to see what its about

You should.

However, I'm betting it feels gutless to you. BMWs have a lot more power.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

You should.

However, I'm betting it feels gutless to you. BMWs have a lot more power.

- Mike

the lack of kick is what is disappointing but hopefully its not that bad

Originally Posted by mr29

the lack of kick is what is disappointing but hopefully its not that bad

I'm not going to lie... it's pretty bad. Think balance and momentum.

As others have mentioned, a turbocharged model would be a dream... but it would also push the price into the $30K range, and that would open a can of worms.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

I'm not going to lie... it's pretty bad. Think balance and momentum.

As others have mentioned, a turbocharged model would be a dream... but it would also push the price into the $30K range, and that would open a can of worms.

- Mike

darn that sucks