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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:25 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
So, my dealership has given me an E90 loaner today as they have a laundry list of items to take care of with my F30 including fixing a stubborn squeak in the console as well as giving the car a fresh detailing and giving me a heavily discounted window tint job.

Honestly, this E90 is a "nice" car, but it flat out is not in the same league as my F30 in any way shape or form.

The suspension is rock hard but offers no more road feel than I am getting from my F30 with adaptive-m suspension. The E90 is NOISY. I never thought the F30 was particularly silent until I hopped out of my F30 and did the same drive in this car. There was enough additional background and road noise that Siri could not even understand me dictating a text to my wife... something that never happens in the F30, and this is going 20 mph down a packed side street... not even cruising on the highway.

The 3.0 I6 engine and automatic gearbox in this older 328i (I think it's a 2011 with about 6000 miles) is good, but honestly it does not hold a candle to the N20 engine with 8 speed gearbox. Not only is the newer 328i noticeably faster (even when slogging the 200 lbs of x-drive around) but the N20 gives much better fuel economy. I almost always get about 34 mpg on my morning commute, but today, with the loaner I suspect I averaged mid 20's on the same drive.

The E90 also has very firm steering. I thought that my A4 had nice sporty firm steering but the steering on the E90 is VERY firm. I'll take the nicely weighted steering on my F30 in sports mode, thanks.

The E90 interior feels simply primitive compared to the F30.... it felt like I had stepped down to a Camry or Accord and that's not trying to be harsh on the E90. It's simply spartan and/or makes the F30 seem "plush" by comparison. Thin steering wheel, harder to read gauges (what the hell, where's my HUD?), joke of a cupholder (yes on a 1 hour drive I need a coffee at 6AM, sorry die-hards), tighter cockpit, etc.

All in all, I posted this because we have seen a lot of negative comments about how the F30 has gotten "soft". There's nothing "soft" about having a highly capable sports sedan with a much updated interior and technology that is also a blast to drive.
I am glad you like your car, but comparing your new car to a used stripped down loaner with how many miles, is just as ridiculous and uninformed as most of your statements made in this post.

PS: my 2011 335is did not have any squeaks or anything else wrong with it when I picked it up at the dealer. It still has not!

Last edited by beden1; 10-09-2012 at 04:26 PM.
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  #27  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I am glad you like your car, but comparing your new car to a used stripped down loaner with how many miles, is just as ridiculous and uninformed as most of your statements made in this post.

PS: my 2011 335is did not have any squeaks or anything else wrong with it when I picked it up at the dealer. It still has not!
My comparison doing the same drive, back to back in both vehicles is "ridiculous"? I think you're ridiculous. See how that works?

My commute is 75-86 miles round trip depending on which route I take. It's better than your average 15 minute "test drive".
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  #28  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
The comments about heavy steering in the E90 are leaving me scratching my head. I never found the steering in my 2007 35i to be heavy and neither did my wife and we both frequently drive other cars.
+1, same here. I am reminded of the over-boosted steering in early E46 cars, developed to lure potential buyers who complained the E36 steering was "too heavy." The result was quickly dubbed "The Ultimate Parking Machine" and the ensuing backlash was so widespread and sustained that BMW (rather quickly, as such things go) redesigned the steering rack with less boost, made a running production change to incorporate it and offered a free retrofit to any owner who complained.

My, how times have changed....
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Last edited by Zeichen311; 10-09-2012 at 04:48 PM. Reason: "home times" ... really?!
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  #29  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:33 PM
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+1, same here. I am reminded of the over-boosted steering in early E46 cars, developed to lure potential buyers who complained the E36 steering was "too heavy." The result was quickly dubbed "The Ultimate Parking Machine" and the ensuing backlash was so widespread and sustained that BMW (rather quickly, as such things go) redesigned the steering rack with less boost, made a running production change to incorporate it and offered a free retrofit to any owner who complained.

My, home times have changed....
All I know is that the steering difference between the E90 and the F30, even when the F30 is in sport mode is quite palpable and especially noticeable when doing, as you suggest "parking lot maneuvers" but is even noticeable during 75-80mph highway cruising. Does that mean that I have lost the way and am not a real BMW fan? Maybe. Do I care? No. Just reporting my observations and if it ruffles feathers than that's a tough break for those who take such things personally.

I don't equate steering heft with road feel or steering capability. The F30 is very very tossable on the right roads and there is plenty of road feel, especially with the reasonably priced adaptive setup. If anything, the weight of the E90 steering is a bit distracting compared to what I am used to with the F30... as someone else pointed out, it almost feels like the power steering pump is broken.

As to other comments. This loaner is a 2011 328i... the pinnacle of E90 technology as it would have all possible refinements that arrived for that platform. By comparison my F30 is a 2013, basically wet behind the years and waiting for refinement to happen over time. E90 has 6000 miles and F30 has 2000 miles. Fair game I say.
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  #30  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:36 PM
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As an aside, dealer called me, they'll want to keep my F30 for one more day as they just finished tinting it and are still going to detail it. They said that my squeak is in fact in the cupholder itself, and they suspect there might be a bad batch of them, as there is a national backorder on that part. They told me they hope to get one from Germany in 2-3 weeks, I will have to live with it in the meantime.
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  #31  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Does that mean that I have lost the way and am not a real BMW fan? Maybe. Do I care? No. Just reporting my observations and if it ruffles feathers than that's a tough break for those who take such things personally.
I don't recall saying or implying that and I have no feathers to ruffle. I simply find it interesting that a very similar scenario has played out once before in the history of the 3 Series; however, the early indications are the outcome will be very different this time around. The market has changed.
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  #32  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:51 PM
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I had a week with a 2011 E90 x-drive recently, my observations were very similar to OP's, and I am comparing the E90 to my baseline F30.

I wonder if all us F30 owners will eventually become like the E90 owners on this board, watching the forums for the new model like hawks ready to go nuts if someone criticizes 'our' 3-series...
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  #33  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:55 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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OP, I am glad you enjoy your car and there is no need to justify your purchase as long as you are happy with it. I am sorry you got "stuck" with a E90, but at the end of the day you got a free loaner. The F30 is a great all around car and an improvement over the E90 making it easier to appeal to a broader customer base. Personally I think it lost a lot of what made BMW great and I also feel the same about the F10 5 series. The F30 is more of a luxury sedan than a sport sedan.

Last edited by LegendsNeverDie; 10-09-2012 at 04:56 PM.
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  #34  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:06 PM
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OP, I am glad you enjoy your car and there is no need to justify your purchase as long as you are happy with it. I am sorry you got "stuck" with a E90, but at the end of the day you got a free loaner. The F30 is a great all around car and an improvement over the E90 making it easier to appeal to a broader customer base. Personally I think it lost a lot of what made BMW great and I also feel the same about the F10 5 series. The F30 is more of a luxury sedan than a sport sedan.
You very well might be right. My older A4 was also more of a "sport" sedan than luxury sedan and the F30 is still more enjoyable to drive, even on very challenging roads.

Then again, perhaps I'm getting old. It would be interesting to see what the typical age of an E46 purchaser was, E90 and now F30. Are the cars getting less sporty, the typical owners getting older, or both?

Or, is it possible that the product that the serious enthusiasts want, doesn't have much demand in the market and BMW has decided not to build it any longer?
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  #35  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
All I know is that the steering difference between the E90 and the F30, even when the F30 is in sport mode is quite palpable and especially noticeable when doing, as you suggest "parking lot maneuvers" but is even noticeable during 75-80mph highway cruising. Does that mean that I have lost the way and am not a real BMW fan? Maybe. Do I care? No. Just reporting my observations and if it ruffles feathers than that's a tough break for those who take such things personally.

I don't equate steering heft with road feel or steering capability. The F30 is very very tossable on the right roads and there is plenty of road feel, especially with the reasonably priced adaptive setup. If anything, the weight of the E90 steering is a bit distracting compared to what I am used to with the F30... as someone else pointed out, it almost feels like the power steering pump is broken.

As to other comments. This loaner is a 2011 328i... the pinnacle of E90 technology as it would have all possible refinements that arrived for that platform. By comparison my F30 is a 2013, basically wet behind the years and waiting for refinement to happen over time. E90 has 6000 miles and F30 has 2000 miles. Fair game I say.
I think anyone who has followed my posts here over the past 5 years will know that I am by no means a BMW or E9x apologist. As a matter of fact I took a huge amount of flack for daring to say that the Emperor was not wearing any clothes (that the E9x sport suspension was not very well sorted out.)

I have no opinion on the F30 steering since I have never driven one. I do maintain that the steering on the E90 never felt heavy to me and during the time I have had the 335i I have regularly driven a wide range of cars ranging from our 750i, a 650i, Shelbys, Ms. Audio's Jaguar XKR, Vipers, Audis, Mercedes, Porsches, Ferraris, Honda Accords and the occaisional rental Camry.

It has been some time since I drove a car with no power steering (and I have never driven a car with a broken power steering pump) but I don't remember them feeling like my 335i.

I doubt that I will keep the E93 another 7 years and when I do replace it if I want another 3 Series (which is unlikely but I have not ruled that out) it will be an F32 or F33 which is for all practical purposes a coupe or convertible F30.

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  #36  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:07 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
All I know is that the steering difference between the E90 and the F30, even when the F30 is in sport mode is quite palpable and especially noticeable when doing, as you suggest "parking lot maneuvers" but is even noticeable during 75-80mph highway cruising. Does that mean that I have lost the way and am not a real BMW fan? Maybe. Do I care? No. Just reporting my observations and if it ruffles feathers than that's a tough break for those who take such things personally.

I don't equate steering heft with road feel or steering capability. The F30 is very very tossable on the right roads and there is plenty of road feel, especially with the reasonably priced adaptive setup. If anything, the weight of the E90 steering is a bit distracting compared to what I am used to with the F30... as someone else pointed out, it almost feels like the power steering pump is broken.

As to other comments. This loaner is a 2011 328i... the pinnacle of E90 technology as it would have all possible refinements that arrived for that platform. By comparison my F30 is a 2013, basically wet behind the years and waiting for refinement to happen over time. E90 has 6000 miles and F30 has 2000 miles. Fair game I say.
And so the war between whose got the better vehicle begins.
I'm pretty sure this happens every time the 3 series gets a new generation!


Look you have a great car! Done enjoy!


Optional read:

The f30 is thoroughly adjustable something e90 owners could only dream of (unless you went with coilovers or something similar). Everyone agrees. However when you mention that your, next generation model (that was designed to last till 2019) is doing amazing compared to a model designed to last till 2011 its a duh moment. (next generation models, are suppose to improve on its predecessor). That being said, you do come to that, as evidenced in your op.

However there are couple of things you have to keep in mind for a future review:
1) claiming a stripper, demo 2011 with 6k miles represents the pinnacle of e90 tech...INCORRECT
2) Comparing that particular e90 to your decked out f30....incorrect



Finally to all those wanting to bash the OP, I think we have to realize that he's not trying to discredit the e90, rather talking about the improvements he has noticed compared to the previous generation 3 series.
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  #37  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:09 PM
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So funny, we have 5 threads a week with people crapping all over the F30. One negative thread about the E90 and people are all ready telling the OP to keep it quite, and suggesting he is justifying his purchase unnecessarily.

Quickly everyone, to the F30 vs blah blah blah FOTM thread to complain about steering feel!
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  #38  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:11 PM
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So funny, we have 5 threads a week with people crapping all over the F30. One negative thread about the E90 and people are all ready telling the OP to keep it quite, and suggesting he is justifying his purchase unnecessarily.

Quickly everyone, to the F30 vs blah blah blah FOTM thread to complain about steering feel!
So true. Yep, calling it like I see it.

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  #39  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:12 PM
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So funny, we have 5 threads a week with people crapping all over the F30. One negative thread about the E90 and people are all ready telling the OP to keep it quite, and suggesting he is justifying his purchase unnecessarily.

Quickly everyone, to the F30 vs blah blah blah FOTM thread to complain about steering feel!
It is entertaining.
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  #40  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:14 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by samualcc View Post
So funny, we have 5 threads a week with people crapping all over the F30. One negative thread about the E90 and people are all ready telling the OP to keep it quite, and suggesting he is justifying his purchase unnecessarily.

Quickly everyone, to the F30 vs blah blah blah FOTM thread to complain about steering feel!
Calm down brozart.
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  #41  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:16 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
You very well might be right. My older A4 was also more of a "sport" sedan than luxury sedan and the F30 is still more enjoyable to drive, even on very challenging roads.

Then again, perhaps I'm getting old. It would be interesting to see what the typical age of an E46 purchaser was, E90 and now F30. Are the cars getting less sporty, the typical owners getting older, or both?

Or, is it possible that the product that the serious enthusiasts want, doesn't have much demand in the market and BMW has decided not to build it any longer?
I don't think we can expect a reverse in engineering improvements. BMWs portfolio direction is one of a leader and its direction is historically evident. When BMW first hit the market they didn't have many series to sell. However as they grew, their portfolio grew, the number of models they produce grew. Similarly we will see the same trend in the future. In addition I expect them to produce more lines to appeal to more buyers. That in itself predicts that no longer will BMWs models share a similar classic feel. The base model will be the price to pay for entrance into a moniker/label rather than an entry fee for an tight handling road car. After the base, you can tack on a bunch of e options to simulate what we used to get before on BMW base models. But then again, I don't think most buyers will care, as we move into a habit of buying products based off labels rather than quality...who knows #ramblingspeculator
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  #42  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:18 PM
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Some people are getting upset in this thread lmao. relax, enjoy your e90's.
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  #43  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:23 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
You very well might be right. My older A4 was also more of a "sport" sedan than luxury sedan and the F30 is still more enjoyable to drive, even on very challenging roads.

Then again, perhaps I'm getting old. It would be interesting to see what the typical age of an E46 purchaser was, E90 and now F30. Are the cars getting less sporty, the typical owners getting older, or both?

Or, is it possible that the product that the serious enthusiasts want, doesn't have much demand in the market and BMW has decided not to build it any longer?
Ill say it how it is. I don't own a E46, however I think it is a better sport sedan than the E90. I also do not own E36 M3 but I think it is a better sport sedan than the E46 or E90. I don't have much experience with the E30 so I can't really speak about that. I like the idea that the F30 has a more rigid chassis and more balanced placement of the engine. I also think that BMW should have done a better job with steering, braking and handling for the price they are asking. I don't dislike at all I just wish it had little more of the "Ultimate Driving Machine" with a little less Lexus feel with MB pricing.
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  #44  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:24 PM
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Some people are getting upset in this thread lmao. relax, enjoy your e90's.
I know, no need to justify your purchase. Enjoy it, who cares if others don't like it.
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  #45  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Then again, perhaps I'm getting old. It would be interesting to see what the typical age of an E46 purchaser was, E90 and now F30. Are the cars getting less sporty, the typical owners getting older, or both?

Or, is it possible that the product that the serious enthusiasts want, doesn't have much demand in the market and BMW has decided not to build it any longer?
I suspect the reality is a little bit of each of these. Cars should reflect potential buyers' desires when they are introduced (or, to sell well they had better!) and the 3er is no exception.

Quote:
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So funny, we have 5 threads a week with people crapping all over the F30. One negative thread about the E90 and people are all ready telling the OP to keep it quite, and suggesting he is justifying his purchase unnecessarily.

Quickly everyone, to the F30 vs blah blah blah FOTM thread to complain about steering feel!
Quote:
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Some people are getting upset in this thread lmao. relax, enjoy your e90's.
Which thread are you guys reading? I only saw one post that was remotely an ad hominem attack on Voip, and quite a few pointing out flaws in the E90. (I'm in the captain's camp of not thinking the E90 suspension compared favorably to the E46. However, the E90 was also the first generation designed to work with (then-)heavy RFTs, so it is unsurprising to me that there was room for improvement.)
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  #46  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:16 PM
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Some people are getting upset in this thread lmao. relax, enjoy your e90's.


It would be disingenuous of me to take shots at the E9X having owned two of them and being very happy for the better part of 6 years. While I think the F30 is a quantum leap ahead in terms of design, ride, and technology, the E9X was a great car. I had a lot of fun, I got a lot of looks, and it kept my family safe.

Godspeed, E9X.

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  #47  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:34 PM
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OP - So let me get this straight.

You are saying you like your brand new F30, optioned out the way you like it, to a ridden hard, put away wet, service loaner 328i AT?

Got it.
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  #48  
Old 10-09-2012, 06:38 PM
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OP - So let me get this straight.

You are saying you like your brand new F30, optioned out the way you like it, to a ridden hard, put away wet, service loaner 328i AT?

Got it.
Not only do I "like" my optioned out F30 more. It drives better too which shouldn't have a lot to do with options.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
OP - So let me get this straight.

You are saying you like your brand new F30, optioned out the way you like it, to a ridden hard, put away wet, service loaner 328i AT?

Got it.
The E90 feels like a heavy car with truck-like steering and low acceleration compared to the F30.

The F30 is a more refined car. It happens. BMW improves. Some go along for the ride.

BJ
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:43 PM
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My e92 M3 has got nothing on your F30 335i. The F30 is Gods gift to man. Another annoyance I have is the 328 sounds like a diesel truck. BMW couldn't refine that engine noise? The F30 has strayed away from what BMW use to call 'performance'. It's a granny mobile. It may still be nice to drive, but it's lost it's responsiveness. This is a trend with ever since the F01 came out. BMW has fallen last in each of it's respective categories that it's been compared in. It's sad to see.
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Last edited by -=Hot|Ice=-; 10-09-2012 at 06:56 PM.
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