E90 loaner... I really miss my F30

Originally Posted by justinnum1

All the e90 owners are that are bitching now will be F30 owners in 2-3 years when their current leases run out

I agree, in 2-3 years, BMW will have fine tune the electric steering, refine the 4 cyl engine, stiffen the ride up a bit, improve inetrior material, lower the price and add more standard options.

Originally Posted by The X Men

I agree, in 2-3 years, BMW will have fine tune the electric steering, refine the 4 cyl engine, stiffen the ride up a bit, improve inetrior material, lower the price and add more standard options.

lol at you thinking any of that will happen before an LCI.

Originally Posted by The X Men

I agree, in 2-3 years, BMW will have fine tune the electric steering, refine the 4 cyl engine, stiffen the ride up a bit, improve inetrior material, lower the price and add more standard options.

The F 30 is one of the best-selling cars in the world.

BMW isn't going to change anything mechanical. Cosmetic facelift, of course. Everything else, status quo.

BJ

Originally Posted by Daedalus34r

This. Why are we praising limp steering? Sounds like people want a Lexus but with a BMW badge so they can still be in the club. I can turn the E46/E90 steering with my pinky and im not even that strong. Should used E90s be sold with a gym membership instead of a CPO warranty? LOL

When I got my first E90 loaner I thought the steering was ridiculously heavy, but I did get used to it after a few days. I then had a couple more E90 loaners which both had the M-Sport package with that really nice thick steering wheel, and I must admit I started to get used to it and like it a lot.

deleted

Originally Posted by justinnum1

lol at you thinking any of that will happen before an LCI.

Oh, I forgot the LED signal lights, the thicker steering wheel and a smoother ASS, opps, did I say that

Originally Posted by The X Men

I agree, in 2-3 years, BMW will have fine tune the electric steering, refine the 4 cyl engine, stiffen the ride up a bit, improve inetrior material, lower the price and add more standard options.

One would hope so. If not I will look elsewhere.

Okay!

So, I got a second day with the E90 under my belt before turning it in and picking up my F30. Here are my observations.

The heavier steering starts to grow on you and is actually fairly similar to the steering in my B7 Audi.

However, the steering is unnecessarily heavy-handed at lower speeds (not just parking lot maneuvers but even just making rapid turns at 20-30 mph on side streets in the burbs).

I took the same tight sweeping left-hander today that is on my alternate return route from my work. I have taken this road many times with the F30. What I would say is that road feel (there is some bumpy pavement, etc) at 80-90 mph on this nice sweeper is VERY similar between the two cars.... WHEN the F30 is in sport mode. Certainly the stock E90 suspension and steering are much firmer than they are on a stock suspension F30.

I did not feel that the E90 provided enough additional feedback that it would warrant a claim that it is BETTER than the F30, only that it is different, and certainly might appeal to different drivers.

I filled up the E90 and observed that I had put about 180 miles on its clocks in the time I had it and had burned 8.5 gallons of fuel. Not very good milage. Doing the EXACT same type of driving, filling up my F30 I would get about 30-32 mpg and that's with a car with fewer miles. I don't know that too many people would choose one sports sedan over another solely based on mileage but it is a fact worth considering.

Also, to the comments that my loaner E90 was "stripped"... it was not. It had a moonroof, heated leather power seats, climate control, etc. Obviously it seriously suffered in the tech department as it had no i-drive, no navigation, etc. I would say that I prefer the cockpit layout and layout/accessibility of controls GREATLY on the F30 over the E90.



I picked up my F30 and they had done a great job with the detailing and window tint. They buffed off whatever cosmoline/residue was on the driver's side tail light and the car looks showroom ready again.

First stop with the new car was picking up some lunch. I chose.... shawarma (because you know, all of us who prefer F30s are middle eastern leaning terrorist-wannabes). Driving over to the lair of middle eastern food preparers I immediately noticed how CRAZY LIGHT my F30 steering was. No really, it was palpable coming from the E90. Now... here's the interesting part... I had just as readily noticed that with the E90 the steering when I started driving it felt like it was way too heavy, especially at lower speeds... but, I got used to it.

So, maybe instead of this being a right vs. wrong issue, maybe it's a preference issue, and maybe (just maybe) if someone who is antagonistic towards either setup actually drove it for a couple hundred miles they might adjust to it and, in some cases might find that the system they initially detested was GOOD, or at minimum livable.

Just a thought.

P.S. I still greatly prefer my F30 to the E90.

F30 with tinted windows at the shawarma hut;



And at the casa while I run in, gobble down that middle eastern fare and prepare to race back to the office...

Black is definitely beautiful when it's freshly detailed like that. The stock wheels are pretty darn nice.

Originally Posted by Lorenzzo

Black is definitely beautiful when it's freshly detailed like that. The stock wheels are pretty darn nice.

Well, they are stock in the sense that they are the sport package rims... which cost me a pretty penny since x-drive cars don't get sport suspension too.

What tint percentage?

On a side note, I would love them to add more finite controls over the driving profiles on the f30. Yes i know most people prefer just clicking a profile and be done, but adding some more finite profile options, like the percentage of assist from the eps, or dialing in exact amount of suspension travel, exhaust note or throttle percentages. I'm pretty sure there standard on the m3-4 but something similar as an option would be a plus. And all those seeking further tailoring of the cars driving dynamics would be satisfiying at least to me and others.

Originally Posted by NoI4plz

What tint percentage?

On a side note, I would love them to add more finite controls over the driving profiles on the f30. Yes i know most people prefer just clicking a profile and be done, but adding some more finite profile options, like the percentage of assist from the eps, or dialing in exact amount of suspension travel, exhaust note or throttle percentages. I'm pretty sure there standard on the m3-4 but something similar as an option would be a plus. And all those seeking further tailoring of the cars driving dynamics would be satisfiying at least to me and others.

It's tinted at whatever is just shy of the legal limit, they use the same 3M tint on all of their cars (they are one of the few dealers I've run into that does tint work in house instead of subbing it out). I got a good price and like it medium-dark so I wasn't that interested in exactly what they used.

I actually agree with you. I would like the ability to customize the drive settings even more than is currently possible. I would like comfort mode to make the throttle slightly less responsive (better fuel economy) and the suspension more oriented towards soaking up the bumps, but keep the steering in the sport setting mode.

I would expect that a lot of these niggles will be addressed over the next 2-3 model year cycles. There's a reason I leased.... I don't want to be driving the 1st iteration of a new model for 7-9 years.

Complelty agree, I think the earliest we can see this happen is either LCI, or next f- series of the 3 series

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

....
So, maybe instead of this being a right vs. wrong issue, maybe it's a preference issue, and maybe (just maybe) if someone who is antagonistic towards either setup actually drove it for a couple hundred miles they might adjust to it and, in some cases might find that the system they initially detested was GOOD, or at minimum livable.
...

You're a dreamer.

Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria...

Originally Posted by jlukja

You're a dreamer.

Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria...

You forgot human sacrifice, and that's my FAVE!! Remember, I like shawarma.

The F30 is different than the E90, but not in a bad way. I had E90 328 and 335 and after putting 7000 miles on the F30, i prefer the steering more. When i need it to be stiff i can go to sport mode, when i want a nice relaxing drive i go to eco pro. What's funny is the E90 owners coming in the F30 forum and having to voicing their displeasure with the car(most of these posters havent even driven the car yet lol).

Those that can't live with the new steering, let us all know when you get your audi, mercedes or cadillac, and how it is. Most of you guys will be driving an F30 soon anyways tho lol.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

Okay!

So, I got a second day with the E90 under my belt before turning it in and picking up my F30. Here are my observations.

Great writeup.

When I went from my E90 328i and drove the F30 328i for the first time I was blown away by how quick the car was, how light it felt, and how much easier it was to steer. I'm assuming that the difference in quickness and lightness is more apparent to 328i owners because of the weight difference and the power boost, perhaps 335i owners won't feel the same joy.

The authentic 3 Series "feel" is still there; you just need to pay more for it, get the right suspension, get one of the Sport lines, done.

BJ

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

The new ES350 offers a lot more in terms of luxury, technology, power and styling for the same or less than the F30.

It's slower than the F30 and only has power on paper(it actually makes 270+hp at the crank)

I wish BMW would re-rate this engine as the typical buyer will have no clue about whp/vs manufacturers claims.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

...

The authentic 3 Series "feel" is still there; you just need to pay more for it, get the right suspension, get one of the Sport lines, done.

BJ

+ 1 boltjames

I think you might be onto something. I'm holding out on M3 to see if BMW will keep HPS in it much like F10 M5.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

It's slower than the F30 and only has power on paper(it actually makes 270+hp at the crank)

I wish BMW would re-rate this engine as the typical buyer will have no clue about whp/vs manufacturers claims.

The F30 has nothing to apologize to Lexus about. The tech in the BMW is better. The BMW handles better. The BMW is faster. The BMW automatic transmission is MUCH better. The BMW is roomier inside and more comfortable. The main thing that the Lexus wins on is "value". They are highly reliable and less expensive than a similarly equipped BMW.

Lexus ES is cheaper because it's pretty much a toyota with different sheet metal and some soft leather seats.

Originally Posted by bayoucity

+ 1 boltjames

I think you might be onto something. I'm holding out on M3 to see if BMW will keep HPS in it much like F10 M5.

If you've watched the reviews on the F30 done in early 2012 most of them are Luxury or Modern versions with the standard suspension. There's one where a racecar driver chick is tooling around the track in a Modern line. And, ironically, every time they "win" the comparo or are mentioned as "still very much the segment leader".

So the E90 folks, like the E46 people before them, find the one or two controversial areas and pick at them like a bloody scab. Meanwhile, two things will certainly happen:

1. They'll take a test drive with the appropriate suspension.

2. They'll lease on on the spot.

BJ

Reading some of the posts in the F30 discussion threads makes me laugh a little. I remember when the F30 wasn't released yet almost everyone was stating how much better the E90 was then the competition because of its steering, handling and balance. It didn't matter that it had "dated" interior because that was not why you bought BMW for. Most would call the A4 "soft" and posted negative comments about the turbo four. Funny how things have changed and now it is the BMW that is "soft" around the edges, comes with a four cylinder and gets terrible reviews about its steering feedback. Bottom line is that most members here would criticize the competition for exactly the same reasons the F30 is criticized by the magazines

This thread is hysterical. And, I say that not as a shot at the OP but as a shot at chatboard behavior. Every few months I see a thread pop up on the E90 board which essentially states "I own an E90, and I got a loaner that was configured in different way than my car, and my car is a lot better! I can't wait to get it back!" I've done it myself.

The reality is that somebody who spent $40,000+ on a car is not going to get an earlier model as a loaner and then declare the loaner to be the better vehicle. Nobody human could be that objective.

Also, we all tend to like what we are used to. I see lots of threads criticizing the seats in various loaner cars and I'm certain that is about a driver having to get used to seats different than the ones he drives every day.

All that said, I am an E90 owner who will NOT be upgrading to an F30. I had an F30 for a week as a loaner, and I thought it was a major upgrade in some ways and a major downgrade in others. I loved the power and responsiveness of the turbo engine, the overall behavior of the transmission, and I thought the suspension (even in the non-sporting modes) offered a far better ride/handling tradeoff than anything in the E90 line. I also thought the seats were wildly comfortable.

On the downsides, I find the F30 steering to be numb and it feels light and overly boosted to me. I can't begin to agree with those of you who see it as superior (or even close to being the equal of) the E90.

Also on a less positive note, there was a very significant decrement in the quality of SOME materials in the interior (IMO). The center console area, in particular, felt low rent to me.

The F30 is definitely a significant increment on many levels, but there are some real misses there as well.

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

This thread is hysterical. And, I say that not as a shot at the OP but as a shot at chatboard behavior. Every few months I see a thread pop up on the E90 board which essentially states "I own an E90, and I got a loaner that was configured in different way than my car, and my car is a lot better! I can't wait to get it back!" I've done it myself.

The reality is that somebody who spent $40,000+ on a car is not going to get an earlier model as a loaner and then declare the loaner to be the better vehicle. Nobody human could be that objective.

I can be pretty objective.

There were things I preferred about my E92 loaner over my F30. My loaner had a higher MSRP too.