X5 35d vs. Porsche Cayenne Diesel

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Mike - nice review of the Fusion too! Very handsome car IMHO.

Hardly a BMW, but not bad for its price/segment.

Drove my X5 35d to an event today in LA to drive a Rolls-Royce Ghost (with gaudy 24-inch wheels) and a Fisker Karma. At the end of the day, I preferred my X5 over both.

- Mike

Yes but will the valets at Ivy park your X5 in the front row next to the RR and Fisker? Like the way Ford has been turning out some pretty handsome (IMHO) vehicles. The new little pocket rocket Focus ST with the hot turbo is another small step in the right direction. But as you opine, they are not BMW's -- nor quite frankly -- intended to be.

I ran into a Cayenne TDI owner at my local gas station filling up his tank in front of me. Had a quick chat.

He's averaging around 30mpg mixed driving according to his trip computer. I'm jealous.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

I ran into a Cayenne TDI owner at my local gas station filling up his tank in front of me. Had a quick chat.

He's averaging around 30mpg mixed driving according to his trip computer. I'm jealous.

dump yours and go for it..

was the Porsche a lot quieter at idle? Thats one thing that bugs me on BMW
its so loud at idle and when you take off.

Then TDI should be reviewed by EPA once more. They are so wrong about TDI economy It should be pretty easy to downgrade from X5d to TDI...?

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

I ran into a Cayenne TDI owner at my local gas station filling up his tank in front of me. Had a quick chat.

He's averaging around 30mpg mixed driving according to his trip computer. I'm jealous.

Nice, so it gets almost 3mpg more than my 335d does for mixed driving. But of course everyone's version of mixed driving seems to vary by a good bit. Still impressive none the less.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

I ran into a Cayenne TDI owner at my local gas station filling up his tank in front of me. Had a quick chat.

He's averaging around 30mpg mixed driving according to his trip computer. I'm jealous.

They don't call it a TDI.

Ask if he wants to drag race!

- Mike

Originally Posted by Snipe656

Nice, so it gets almost 3mpg more than my 335d does for mixed driving. But of course everyone's version of mixed driving seems to vary by a good bit. Still impressive none the less.

Porsche owners will tell you anything, they do this to justify the purchase mistake, thats why Porsche seats are on such a recline, because Porsche owners cannot lay straight in bed.

Originally Posted by watrob

Porsche owners will tell you anything, they do this to justify the purchase mistake, thats why Porsche seats are on such a recline, because Porsche owners cannot lay straight in bed.

I see high mpg claims out of diesel BMW owners but don't think they are simply telling me anything. I really think it is the fact that "mixed driving" can mean so many things. I once saw someone on here saying they average mid 30s in their 335d and explained their typical driving. Their explanation sure matched how I'd describe my driving but when I question what the computer said their average mph per tanks/resents was it was significantly higher than mine.

But regardless, what I'd classify as mixed driving I am pretty confident would not net 30mpg out of the Porsche for me. I am sure I'd be a good bit less than that.

Originally Posted by watrob

Porsche owners will tell you anything, they do this to justify the purchase mistake, thats why Porsche seats are on such a recline, because Porsche owners cannot lay straight in bed.

How is the Cayenne Diesel a mistake? I'm not sure that guy was lying. That's what his trip computer said, but I'm just not sure what his definition of "mixed driving" is

I would see no reason to doubt that claim. After all it is the same engine with the 8 speed transmission that is in the '13 T-egg (240 hp) and that is a TDI from the VA(P)G parts bin -- no matter what Porsche chooses to call it. Apparently Porsche has chosen to use the drive train straight across from both the diesel and hybrid offerings from their stablemates at VW in the Cayenne. The gas V6, while still a basic VW, has been "breathed upon" by the Porsche engineers a bit. Mike of course would know for sure.

I would see no reason to doubt that claim. After all it is the same engine with the 8 speed transmission that is in the '13 T-egg (240 hp) and that is a TDI from the VA(P)G parts bin -- no matter what Porsche chooses to call it. Apparently Porsche has chosen to use the drive train straight across from both the diesel and hybrid offerings from their stablemates at VW in the Cayenne. The gas V6, while still a basic VW, has been "breathed upon" by the Porsche engineers a bit. Mike of course would know for sure.

Whoa... stand by for an attack from the "Badge" crowd...true as your comments are..

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

How is the Cayenne Diesel a mistake? I'm not sure that guy was lying. That's what his trip computer said, but I'm just not sure what his definition of "mixed driving" is

When you say trip computer, I can get two different readings from mine on the X5. If I reset it first thing in the moring or when I take off in the morning the mile per gallon goes high, once I reach hwy speed it drops down.

It can go from 12.6ltr/100klm to 8.6ltr/100klm on 15min run. I filled the tank up the other day, it took 86ltr of diesel, my computer said I would have a range of 1046klm from the tank and I know I am not going to get that around the city or combined driving.

For that diesel Porsche to get 30mpg thats around 8.2ltr/100klm give or take, no way unless he idle's around everywhere and turns off the Air-con. There is more chance of getting 30mp imperial gallon than a US gallon, and coming to that fact which gallon is the computer set to? mostly likely imperial as its a world wide car which means his trip computer is way out.

I figured his definition of "mixed" driving means a mix of highway driving and freeway driving.

^ US gallons. Why would a US spec car be set to imperial? We don't even use that here.

30mpg is completely reasonable with the estimates. The Touareg and ML with their 7/8 speed autos achieve 30+mpg highway easily.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

^ US gallons. Why would a US spec car be set to imperial? We don't even use that here.

30mpg is completely reasonable with the estimates. The Touareg and ML with their 7/8 speed autos achieve 30+mpg highway easily.

Perfectly reasonable for highway driving. But generally speaking when someone says "mixed driving" that does not mean predominately highway driving. So either they have a skewed definition of mixed driving or some setting is off.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

Perfectly reasonable for highway driving. But generally speaking when someone says "mixed driving" that does not mean predominately highway driving. So either they have a skewed definition of mixed driving or some setting is off.

Could'nt see how they would have the computer set for US gallons for the US & imperial gallons for the UK.

The computer can be switched for gallons or litres as can the X5, but as its a European car my guess it's imperial gallons?

My X5 can be set to Litres or Gallons, but in Australian gallons as for conversion are to imperal gallons.

In Canada I believe the Porsche sticker on the window refers to the MPG as being the Imperial Gallon?

Originally Posted by watrob

Could'nt see how they would have the computer set for US gallons for the US & imperial gallons for the UK.

The computer can be switched for gallons or litres as can the X5, but as its a European car my guess it's imperial gallons?

My X5 can be set to Litres or Gallons, but in Australian gallons as for conversion are to imperal gallons.

In Canada I believe the Porsche sticker on the window refers to the MPG as being the Imperial Gallon?

I do not know for certain but I do believe Canada ratings are based on Imperial gallons. But then again I have seen a number of Canadian users on these forums and seems they never are making quotes based on Imperial gallons.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

I do not know for certain but I do believe Canada ratings are based on Imperial gallons. But then again I have seen a number of Canadian users on these forums and seems they never are making quotes based on Imperial gallons.

Have been checking a couple other forums in regards to European built cars and they seem to think the trip computer is set to imperial gallons, one by the literature and that when they do a manual check they get different reading to the computer.

An imperial gallon is 20% larger than a US gallon, this quite interesting, I have manually check my Ltr/100klm and its pretty close to the computer.

I wonder if the boys over at BMWCoding forum have on this, I know there is not alot of difference in the firmware ( its coded in German anyway), there is really no difference in the code running in my X5 to yours or one in Europe. I have had changes done to mine via coders in Europe who have added a couple features you get in the US.

Think I need to read my X5 manual and see what it says about ltr/mpg?

US cars definitely get US gallons not imperial. I've checked my read-out to the pump calculation multiple times, and while its not perfect it isn't off 20%.

Jay

Originally Posted by Whippa

I would see no reason to doubt that claim. After all it is the same engine with the 8 speed transmission that is in the '13 T-egg (240 hp) and that is a TDI from the VA(P)G parts bin -- no matter what Porsche chooses to call it. Apparently Porsche has chosen to use the drive train straight across from both the diesel and hybrid offerings from their stablemates at VW in the Cayenne. The gas V6, while still a basic VW, has been "breathed upon" by the Porsche engineers a bit. Mike of course would know for sure.

Whoa... stand by for an attack from the "Badge" crowd...true as your comments are..

The '12 VW Touareg TDI and '13 Porsche Cayenne Diesel have different engines (basic architecture is the same, but there are significant mechanical/electrical/tuning changes — VW Group considers them Gen I and Gen II). That said, the '13 VW Touareg TDI will have the identical engine as the '13 Cayenne Diesel (I believe this will not be openly announced, er... downplayed, for Porsche's benefit).

- Mike

This is an interesting thread. I bought my wife an X5 35d last year (2009). We enjoy it, but the warranty expires next Summer. We plan to get some extended warranty which should cost around $3,500, but I am really liking the Cayenne, and there are some real sticking points about the BMW. So I'm going to continue watching this, but here are my comments:

1. Mt X5 35d doesn't seem to get as good of mileage as other's state here or even EPA standard. I drive efficiently and compared to other cars where I can usually get slightly better than EPA on my road trips from Austin to Houston, in the X5 I cannot. I strictly go 5 mph over the posted speed limit and my wife's (from before we got married) 09 VW TDI Jetta 6spd got 44 mpg on the journey, 3 more than EPA. My old Infiniti G35S got 25.5 mpg on the trip, or 0.5 over EPA. However, I can only get 24 with the X5.

2. The interior rattles are really bad for a German luxury brand on the X5. Although I did finally DIY fixed the rear hatch issues, there are still creeks and cheap plastic on pressure points such as armrests, etc. Also the diesel engine at low rpm is causing some vibration enough to make some rattle noise in my headliner.

3. It is quite loud stop light to stop light.

However, the X5 is wonderfully comfortable to drive, the active suspension works well. However, it is no where near the build quality of my 2011 Audi S4 Prestige.

So if used prices of Cayenne Diesel's next Summer come down to a reasonable price, I might jump ship, mostly for interior quality.

U235, as Mike confirms above the new Porsche Cayenne and the new (MY '13) VW T-egg have the same Gen II VA(P)G diesel engine (and drive train) so you would be getting the same diesel in a similar car for a ton less coin. Now, it would not have "the badge" but if you are just interested in the car itself -- might be worth a look. The Executive series T-egg has a very handsome leather interior too. Just a thought. I suspect the revised Q7 will also get the Gen II engine too when it is redone in 'MY 14 too. The VW interiors are very close to the superb Audi interior offerings too -- and those are almost the industry standard for luxury.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

U235, as Mike confirms above the new Porsche Cayenne and the new (MY '13) VW T-egg have the same Gen II VA(P)G diesel engine (and drive train) so you would be getting the same diesel in a similar car for a ton less coin. Now, it would not have "the badge" but if you are just interested in the car itself -- might be worth a look. The Executive series T-egg has a very handsome leather interior too. Just a thought. I suspect the revised Q7 will also get the Gen II engine too when it is redone in 'MY 14 too. The VW interiors are very close to the superb Audi interior offerings too -- and those are almost the industry standard for luxury.

Agreed.

But keep in mind the Porsche is tuned to be a Porsche, whether folks believe that or not (unique suspension, unique steering, etc...). It is lighter overall and the quality of materials (and components) will be of a higher grade in many instances.

I happen to like the Porsche interior better.

- Mike

Mike, I can't wait to see the Autoblog review on the '13 T-egg TDI!