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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #26  
Old 10-16-2012, 07:07 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
*******>*******>*******>********>********>********>
Originally Posted by DSXMachina
Yes, I did recommend Mike's schedule and often do. In context it was the right thing to suggest. I don't recommend it every time, and sometimes would strongly argue against parts of it. Back to the radiator example for instance. I have never recommended a customer change their non-leaking, non clogged radiator just because of mileage. But if that same customer told me they were driving to their new home in San Diego (from NH) with their elderly mom in the car, and their car had 120k on the clock and cost were no object (it isn't for many of my customers) I would suggest a new radiator, among other things.



These two statements seem at odds with one another. --sunny5280

I have never had someone tell me they were driving their elderly mom to San Diego in their ageing BMW. When they do I might recommend a radiator replacement before they hit the road. No conflict.

Last edited by DSXMachina; 10-16-2012 at 07:08 PM.
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  #27  
Old 10-16-2012, 07:19 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Quote:
*******>*******>*******>********>********>********>
Originally Posted by DSXMachina
Yes, I did recommend Mike's schedule and often do. In context it was the right thing to suggest. I don't recommend it every time, and sometimes would strongly argue against parts of it. Back to the radiator example for instance. I have never recommended a customer change their non-leaking, non clogged radiator just because of mileage. But if that same customer told me they were driving to their new home in San Diego (from NH) with their elderly mom in the car, and their car had 120k on the clock and cost were no object (it isn't for many of my customers) I would suggest a new radiator, among other things.



These two statements seem at odds with one another. --sunny5280

I have never had someone tell me they were driving their elderly mom to San Diego in their ageing BMW. When they do I might recommend a radiator replacement before they hit the road. No conflict.
The first statement essentially says you don't recommend the replacement of a perfectly good radiator merely based on mileage. The next sentence goes on to say you would do just that if the customer were taking an elderly parent across the country. Unless there's a connection between driving an elderly parent across the country and radiator failure the two statements are at odds. Whether you've actually had a customer state as much to you isn't a factor.
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  #28  
Old 10-16-2012, 07:23 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by 8355adam View Post
Im trying to get a reliable maintenance schedule for my 330i. I've read that mike miller is popular but could be outdated for my model. If it is outdated then what would you guys recommend and if mike miller is still good where the heck do you get a copy because everywhere i've searched has nothing.

Ya can't have too much money, be too fit, or do too much preventative maint.

Email Mike - enjoy!

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  #29  
Old 10-16-2012, 07:24 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
The first statement essentially says you don't recommend the replacement of a perfectly good radiator merely based on mileage. The next sentence goes on to say you would do just that if the customer were taking an elderly parent across the country. Unless there's a connection between driving an elderly parent across the country and radiator failure the two statements are at odds. Whether you've actually had a customer state as much to you isn't a factor.

There most certainly is a connection.

Good Lord.

Do you not see it?
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  #30  
Old 10-16-2012, 07:46 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
There most certainly is a connection.

Good Lord.

Do you not see it?
No, I don't see it. Please show me how driving an elderly parent across the country increases the likelihood of a radiator failure.

Last edited by sunny5280; 10-16-2012 at 07:49 PM.
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  #31  
Old 10-16-2012, 08:00 PM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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Tolerance of risk and consequences for failure.

Like in software or (electrical) hardware design: is the product going to go into a remote control for a TV set or in a pacemaker?
In the first case, if something goes wrong, maybe the owner will just mash the volume button a bit longer. In the second case, someone dies.

Extreme example.
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  #32  
Old 10-16-2012, 08:11 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
The first statement essentially says you don't recommend the replacement of a perfectly good radiator merely based on mileage. The next sentence goes on to say you would do just that if the customer were taking an elderly parent across the country. Unless there's a connection between driving an elderly parent across the country and radiator failure the two statements are at odds. Whether you've actually had a customer state as much to you isn't a factor.
Not going there sunny. Have a good evening.
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  #33  
Old 10-16-2012, 08:39 PM
jertronic jertronic is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
These two statements seem at odds with one another.



I am correct about it having owned a 1999 328i.
I also owned a 1999 328i. And yes the oil change interval was 15K, but more importantly I couldn't resist raving about that car. That vehicle was the superior of the three 3 series I have owned. The lack of X-drive is my thesis as to the explanation.

On the thread topic.... The predominance of turbo engines will likely tweak the Mike Miller plan. I follow portions of Mike's plan. Some maintenance items are no brainers. Common sense dictates that changing the coolant prior to factory recommendations will prolong the life and dependability of the cooling system. Can somebody describe how following BMW's plan is favorable over Mike's plan in this component?

My car has enjoyed single ownership and I intend to hold on for some time, 4 more years.
I will be following Mike's plan more than not. If one supports the lifetime fluid policy then they obviously do not have ownership of length in mind.
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  #34  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:52 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by galahad05 View Post
Tolerance of risk and consequences for failure.

Like in software or (electrical) hardware design: is the product going to go into a remote control for a TV set or in a pacemaker?
In the first case, if something goes wrong, maybe the owner will just mash the volume button a bit longer. In the second case, someone dies.

Extreme example.
This is not an example of correlation between transporting an elderly parent across the county and radiator failures. The reality is there is no correlation. The radiator is just as likely (or not) to fail when transporting an elderly parent across the country as when not.

What you're referring to is the severity of the consequences should the radiator fail. It's my take DSXMachina feels the consequences of a radiator failure while transporting an elderly parent across the country warrant replacement of a perfectly good radiator based solely on the fact it has 120K miles on it. That seems to contradict his early statement about not recommending proactive replacement of parts which have not failed.

And if he's going to recommend replacement of the radiator will he also be recommending replacement of the water pump? Heater core? Expansion tank? All cooling hoses? What about the fuel pump? Or the various computers? Or how about the entire car (which is not as crazy as it seems because people do just that...when the mileage gets too high they replace the entire car)?

Last edited by sunny5280; 10-17-2012 at 05:54 AM.
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  #35  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:06 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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I also owned a 1999 328i. And yes the oil change interval was 15K, but more importantly I couldn't resist raving about that car. That vehicle was the superior of the three 3 series I have owned. The lack of X-drive is my thesis as to the explanation.
The current 3-series offers a RWD option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jertronic View Post
On the thread topic.... The predominance of turbo engines will likely tweak the Mike Miller plan. I follow portions of Mike's plan. Some maintenance items are no brainers. Common sense dictates that changing the coolant prior to factory recommendations will prolong the life and dependability of the cooling system. Can somebody describe how following BMW's plan is favorable over Mike's plan in this component?
Increased maintenance cost being the primary disadvantage of Mike's plan over BMW's. There's also the possibility you replace a perfectly functional part with a broken one or the work is done incorrectly / haphazardly.

As I have said there is no evidence to suggest following BMW's maintenance schedule results in increased wear or failure of the vehicle. If there is I'd sure like to see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jertronic View Post
My car has enjoyed single ownership and I intend to hold on for some time, 4 more years.
I will be following Mike's plan more than not. If one supports the lifetime fluid policy then they obviously do not have ownership of length in mind.
I want to be clear I am not against Mike's maintenance schedule. If someone chooses to follow it I have no objection. In fact I perform maintenance more frequently than BMW recommends. However I fully realize I am doing so more because it makes me feel good (placebo effect) rather than there being a significant technical benefit to doing so. I mean doesn't your vehicle just run better with freshly changed oil?
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  #36  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:17 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
There most certainly is a connection.

Good Lord.

Do you not see it?
You might be better off hammering nails into your eyes than endure the pain of arguing with this poster.
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  #37  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:28 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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You might be better off hammering nails into your eyes than endure the pain of arguing with this poster.
I would agree as there is no correlation between the two. Thus to argue against me is to argue a position which is not true. Arguing something which is untrue is a foolish act whether it be against me or someone else. Glad you see that and are willing to help others understand it too.
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  #38  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
No, I don't see it. Please show me how driving an elderly parent across the country increases the likelihood of a radiator failure.

This is self-evident. If you wish to take the risk, and that risk is high, I recommend you make the journey and document your results.

Taking two elderly parents, radiator problems are all but certain. Avoid traveling in Canada!
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  #39  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:42 AM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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The odds don't change: the consequences do.


1:10,000 odds of yourself being stranded on the way home from work? Acceptable.
1:10,000 odds of your old grandmother being stranded 1,500 miles away from friends and family? Unacceptable.

That kind of thinking, not odds changing.
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  #40  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:46 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
This is self-evident. If you wish to take the risk, and that risk is high, I recommend you make the journey and document your results.
I did just this last year with my parents. Went from Denver to Arizona in my 2001 X5 which had 125K miles, and the original radiator, on it. Ironically I did have work performed on the vehicle during the trip. But it wasn't on the radiator.
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  #41  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:51 AM
8355adam 8355adam is offline
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So in all that the answer to my question seems to be....... strike a balance that makes you feel confident in your vehicle between the BMW recommended maintenance and mike miller's and ofcourse your wallet. What i'll probably do is be proactive on replacing cheaper parts according to Mike's plan and mix in elements of BMW's. For example i will replace T-stat and Wpump at 100K as this is their appox lifespan anyway but not the entire radiator and hoses if it is not leaking and unless i have a problem i probably wont change the tranny fluid either unless there is an acute problem. However oil changes are pretty cheap and as a crucial fluid i think that its good insurance to change this as per mike's plan - i will prob do it every 7,500 miles (mobil 1). pads/rotors i can leave to idrive to tell me since i beleive that system is pretty conservative with these items anyway.

I guess we all have to rememeber that the cost of parts is not an indication of how long they will last. Waiting for the day the radiator blows is understandable for cash flow reasons where as replacing chaper parts that are known to fail around certain timeframes before they have actually broken is also an understndable plan if you want to increase the reliability of your car without costing the earth.
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  #42  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:52 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galahad05 View Post
The odds don't change: the consequences do.
Bingo! Which means there is no correlation. Which means, unsurprisingly, CALWATERBOY was wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by galahad05 View Post
1:10,000 odds of yourself being stranded on the way home from work? Acceptable.
1:10,000 odds of your old grandmother being stranded 1,500 miles away from friends and family? Unacceptable.

That kind of thinking, not odds changing.
Then why just focus on the radiator? What about the water pump? Expansion tank? Coolant hoses? Heater core? Fuel pump? The entire vehicle?

What about having to rush your elderly parent to the hospital? Wouldn't you want your vehicle to be at its peak in the event this may happen (which, I think, has happened more often than being stranded 1,500 miles from friends and family and has much greater consequences should the vehicle fail)?
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  #43  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:06 AM
jertronic jertronic is offline
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[QUOTE=sunny5280;7139423]The current 3-series offers a RWD option.

After having 2 consecutive models with x drive, I have concluded that I prefer the feel and performance of my original 1999 328i RWD. For my 2 most recent models I chose AWD over RWD recently due to the climate where I live. This was a concious decision. For my 2 most recent models I did not walk in the dealership thinking that the current 3 series were available solely in x-drive. In 1999 x drive was not available on the 3 series, or on any BMW series or model for that matter.

You inferred that I believe e90 and current 3series are offered solely in x-drive
flavors.

I was implying that if I could take a "do over" I would have purchased a RWD for my current vehicle.

It goes without saying that current and modern 3 series are available in RWD. 95% of the readers of this forum are aware of that fact.

You should go by Sunny Holmes. Or, Sunny D. That is short for Sunny Delight.

But, I agree that there can be a happy medium for maintenance which is done on a schedule somewhere in between MM's and BMW's.
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  #44  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:07 AM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by laser View Post
So what do you recommend?
I recommend following the schedule provided by the ame company who designed, engineered, tested and built your vehicle. If they don't know best I don't know who would.
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  #45  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:09 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by 8355adam View Post
So in all that the answer to my question seems to be....... strike a balance that makes you feel confident in your vehicle between the BMW recommended maintenance and mike miller's and ofcourse your wallet.
You've got it
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  #46  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:14 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
I did just this last year with my parents. Went from Denver to Arizona in my 2001 X5 which had 125K miles, and the original radiator, on it. Ironically I did have work performed on the vehicle during the trip. But it wasn't on the radiator.

A dry run of small sample size.

Acid test: Coast t'coast routed through Phoenix or Yuma to LA in Monsoon Season.

Parents must be at least 10 years past retirement age to be eligible. Octagenarian or better preferred.
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  #47  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:22 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
There most certainly is a connection.

Good Lord.

Do you not see it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
You might be better off hammering nails into your eyes than endure the pain of arguing with this poster.

I will not be trifled with! The elderly are a subject deserving of respect and admiration. Thus, the issue of their radiator failures shall be dealt with in a professional manner.
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  #48  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:39 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
A dry run of small sample size.

Acid test: Coast t'coast routed through Phoenix or Yuma to LA in Monsoon Season.

Parents must be at least 10 years past retirement age to be eligible. Octagenarian or better preferred.
You said, and I quote:

"I recommend you make the journey and document your results"

I did exactly what you recommended. Now you're trying to move the goal posts.
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  #49  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:42 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
The current 3-series offers a RWD option.
After having 2 consecutive models with x drive, I have concluded that I prefer the feel and performance of my original 1999 328i RWD. For my 2 most recent models I chose AWD over RWD recently due to the climate where I live. This was a concious decision. For my 2 most recent models I did not walk in the dealership thinking that the current 3 series were available solely in x-drive. In 1999 x drive was not available on the 3 series, or on any BMW series or model for that matter.

You inferred that I believe e90 and current 3series are offered solely in x-drive
flavors.

I was implying that if I could take a "do over" I would have purchased a RWD for my current vehicle.

It goes without saying that current and modern 3 series are available in RWD. 95% of the readers of this forum are aware of that fact.

You should go by Sunny Holmes. Or, Sunny D. That is short for Sunny Delight.
Believe it or not there are people who aren't aware of this. I wasn't sure if you were one of them hence my comment. No disrespect towards you.
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  #50  
Old 10-17-2012, 08:04 AM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
You said, and I quote:

"I recommend you make the journey and document your results"

I did exactly what you recommended. Now you're trying to move the goal posts.
You do realize this guy is trolling you and everyone else, right?
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