Motortrend video slamming 2013 Alpina B7 vs Audi S8

Matte paint is any paint minus clear coat...any color you like...my Dingolfing tour guide and I were having a chuckle that people pay extra for that.

Any frozen (matt) color is consider as "Individual" from BMW and cost should be around $5K, SA need to check with factory direct when placing order due to limited schedule run. Production efficiency of any "Individual" configuration is much lower (like 7 to 1) than standard, therefore, the premium is mainly to compensate production rate cost rather material cost.

Originally Posted by ayu910

Any frozen (matt) color is consider as "Individual" from BMW and cost should be around $5K, SA need to check with factory direct when placing order due to limited schedule run. Production efficiency of any "Individual" configuration is much lower (like 7 to 1) than standard, therefore, the premium is mainly to compensate production rate cost rather material cost.

Wow, $5k isn't bad actually...up here someone was quoted $20k for a f10. I've been told tho that matte paint jobs are a b!tch to maintain; I read that any bird dropping which isn't remove within minutes will basically damage the paint so makes you wonder if it's even worth the hassle.

Do a wrap on whatever paint you have and it's protected, and you don't have to worry about permanent damage. I think that's the only way to go. Also, if you get tired of it, it can be removed to reveal your natural color.

Originally Posted by f01driver

Wow, $5k isn't bad actually...up here someone was quoted $20k for a f10. I've been told tho that matte paint jobs are a b!tch to maintain; I read that any bird dropping which isn't remove within minutes will basically damage the paint so makes you wonder if it's even worth the hassle.

You are spot on. You also can't go in any car wash that uses any kind of brush or cloth. You can't rub the car very hard or it scratches. Super cool looking though...just wildly impractical. Like getting white carpet in a red wine tasting room.

Originally Posted by filmoreslim

like getting white carpet in a red wine tasting room.

hahaha.

Originally Posted by f01driver

Wow, $5k isn't bad actually...up here someone was quoted $20k for a f10. I've been told tho that matte paint jobs are a b!tch to maintain; I read that any bird dropping which isn't remove within minutes will basically damage the paint so makes you wonder if it's even worth the hassle.

Maintain is not too bad, just like normal paint. Here is a link explain by BMWNA


BUT, can't just polish/buff scratches at home as it will need to handle by the paint shop.

Warp is a option and avg shop charge around $2.5~3K. However, to match factory quality top warp installer charge up to $7~8K to have perfect edge finish plus cover most of trunk and inside door jamb but after all that still can't do the engine bay. So $5K for factory matt finish is pretty reasonable IMO.

by wrap do you mean the polyseel? That is something I am considering getting when I take delivery (for both paint and upholstery).

A little disappointed in the dyno numbers for BMW. I personally do not care for the styling of the Audi. I am very impressed with the Audi’s performance numbers, especially considering the size of the car.

Originally Posted by jtimmer

by wrap do you mean the polyseel? That is something I am considering getting when I take delivery (for both paint and upholstery).

Something like this:

http://www.northwestautosalon.com/fu...ps-in-seattle/

http://www.northwestautosalon.com/ve...wraps_gallery/

It'll run you 4-6k depending on type of vehicle and how extensively the wrap is applied (e.g. door jams etc).

"The products we put on the vehicles we wrap are premium, top of the line, automotive grade vinyl films. This vinyl is specially designed for use on vehicles using paint-safe adhesive, malleability, and air-release features that make installation on your car as safe as possible. Unlike a repaint which will ruin the original value of your vehicle, a vinyl wrap will actually protect it! Because the entire vehicle is covered with 3-4 mils thick vinyl, the paint surface is protected from most regular road debris.

Another reason wrapping a vehicle is a far better idea then repainting it is that the wrap is not permanent. If, after a while, you want to change the color or go back to the stock look, the wrap can easily be removed by one of our skilled technicians. By using us for the uninstall, we can assure you that your vehicle will be returned to the same condition as before it was wrapped."

Talked to someone with a flat black lambo once and he said he was against wrapping it because it only last a year or so before you have to redo it.

Passing through brentwood today I saw a S550 with a Designo badge that was matte white. Had some kind of metallic element in the paint that made it stand out a bit more than some of the flat whites I've seen here and there.

I've got a metallic wrap on my 750i. I've had it for a year, and it's been pretty easy to maintain. I don't go into auto car washes, just wash at home. Don't use wax, but that wouldn't help the wrap look anyways. I paid $3,750 for mine, they did the tint as well. All lines are straight, and everything matches well. I've loved having a metallic wrap, as it sets you apart from the 100+ 7 series that I seem to see everyday in LA. I would probably do it again, the time it takes to do one is a pain though.

More pics here: http://www.momentum-motors.com/web/u...09---/3048036/

very cool.

Has anyone here driven the latest S8? And the B7? In a test drive. Any conclusions on the validity of the MotorTrend test?

Personally, I'm very surprised by the HP figures achieved, since my understanding is that BMW usually underquotes. However, I would also be surprised if MotorTrend or K&N somehow botched the testing, where the car went into a "safe" mode, the car wasn't in Sport where it releases all the ponies etc. There doesn't seem to be a logical explanation as to the discrepancy.

I'm not disappointed, more surprised. I'm a firm believer in the fact that better competitor cars leads to better BMWs.

Originally Posted by MMLLC

I've got a metallic wrap on my 750i. I've had it for a year, and it's been pretty easy to maintain. I don't go into auto car washes, just wash at home. Don't use wax, but that wouldn't help the wrap look anyways. I paid $3,750 for mine, they did the tint as well. All lines are straight, and everything matches well. I've loved having a metallic wrap, as it sets you apart from the 100+ 7 series that I seem to see everyday in LA. I would probably do it again, the time it takes to do one is a pain though.

More pics here: http://www.momentum-motors.com/web/u...09---/3048036/

I've been admiring your car for quite a while now. Very well done!

Originally Posted by Leslierc

I've been admiring your car for quite a while now. Very well done!

Thanks! I've enjoyed it greatly, but unfortunately it'll be getting sold soon. I suppose it's the devil inside me that always has me desiring another car. I've had it for a year now and it's been awesome, however I just placed an order for a 2013 RR supercharged, and will be selling it in a month or so. Anyone can PM me if interested.

Originally Posted by chrischeung

Has anyone here driven the latest S8? And the B7? In a test drive. Any conclusions on the validity of the MotorTrend test?

Personally, I'm very surprised by the HP figures achieved, since my understanding is that BMW usually underquotes. However, I would also be surprised if MotorTrend or K&N somehow botched the testing, where the car went into a "safe" mode, the car wasn't in Sport where it releases all the ponies etc. There doesn't seem to be a logical explanation as to the discrepancy.

I'm not disappointed, more surprised. I'm a firm believer in the fact that better competitor cars leads to better BMWs.

The B7 is not in a "safe" mode, base on 4660 lbs and trap speed of 113.6 from the 1/4 mile video, flywheel HP is aorund 533...little low but fairly close to 540 factory spec.

The S8 most likely a ringer, base on 4641 lbs and trap speed of 118.3 flywheel HP is around 599....that is almost 80HP more than factory spec. Little extra boost is always fun and BMW/Alpina need to learn and make sure to setup a Dinan flash B7 as press car next time.

Originally Posted by ayu910

The S8 most likely a ringer

How did they make the car drive smaller than it is? I don't think they can do that by pushing up the horsepower. Perhaps the steering is more sensitive? Crisper turn in? The suspension more reactive? If size is the same, that's what I would expect is the difference. They already mentioned the throttle response.

I also am now wondering if Audi is severly underquoting power. Which is fine, as long as production cars are delivered that way. So if someone can provide some insight from any personal test drives comparing the two.

Originally Posted by ayu910

The B7 is not in a "safe" mode, base on 4660 lbs and trap speed of 113.6 from the 1/4 mile video, flywheel HP is aorund 533...little low but fairly close to 540 factory spec.

The S8 most likely a ringer, base on 4641 lbs and trap speed of 118.3 flywheel HP is around 599....that is almost 80HP more than factory spec. Little extra boost is always fun and BMW/Alpina need to learn and make sure to setup a Dinan flash B7 as press car next time.

The whole thing is questionable to me ...why would you not test the SWB xDrive?

Originally Posted by filmoreslim

The whole thing is questionable to me ...why would you not test the SWB xDrive?

The likely cause is that BMW had that car in its test fleet at the time. They don't keep every model variation available, and they have to balance logistics of how many days the reviewers want the car for, where and when etc.

I think the RWD car is probably sportier than the xDrive, so the ideal car for the test would have been the SWB RWD B7. The Audi only comes in SWB AWD (unless they made the LWB an option/available for the latest version).

Originally Posted by chrischeung

The likely cause is that BMW had that car in its test fleet at the time. They don't keep every model variation available, and they have to balance logistics of how many days the reviewers want the car for, where and when etc.

I think the RWD car is probably sportier than the xDrive, so the ideal car for the test would have been the SWB RWD B7. The Audi only comes in SWB AWD (unless they made the LWB an option/available for the latest version).

I disagree on the rwd being sportier, the xDrive acceleration is better than the rwd. Maybe the rwd steering is better. I always thought the weight of the all wheel drive would be an issue, however, after seeing it first hand at Dingolfing as well as taking notice that Lamborghini and Porsche's engineers are using the latest 60/40 awd technology in their fastest cars, I'm a believer.

Let me comment as someone who has wasted productive hours mulling the issue. I would argue that BMW don't make their sportiest cars, like the M3 and M5 cars in AWD.

Most people agree that AWD is heavier and offers less steering feel, turn in, generally speaking. What is often in debate is real world performance (or even track performance), since an AWD car can usually be driven faster by the untrained, but some argue in the hands of a professional, RWD can be faster. Regardless of speed, the majority of testers say that RWD cars offer more enjoyment since they tend to have better feedback. In slippery or adverse conditions, AWD is the clear winner.

Complicating the matter is that there is rarely 2 cars that are the same that are identical other than being AWD or RWD - usually there is something different in the engine, suspension, ride height etc. For example, the Porsche 911 Turbo does come in RWD, but as the GT2, which is a performance special and only indirectly comparable to the AWD Turbo.

The next E63 will come in as 4wd only.

And the 2014 e63 will supposedly get from 0-60 in just 3.4 seconds. Unreal.

IMO RWD is much more fun and driver can push the limit higher compare with AWD. AWD most of time can enter corner little faster (pending on size of corner) but most of time RWD will exit more quickly which result in similar or better lap time. During endurance race AWD will always have faster tire/brake wear (which means more pit stop) due to entering corner with higher speed. Top speed wise, usually AWD lost more power due to distribution and as result it require more power to achieve the same high speed (80mph+) acceleration as RWD. There is a reason why Lamborghini start to offer RWD car nowadays like the Aventador LP700-2, Gallardo LP570-2, etc plus Ferrari F12 offer RWD only. Those buyers want to experience the car at maximal potential which only RWD can offer. Also, AWD can give the driver a sense of false security which can be danger. Of course, there are car that is AWD and fun to drive like the GT-R, Carrera 4S, and etc but in general RWD rule the track.

If 0-60, 1/4 mile is your thing then go all out on AWD. If intent to enjoy corner, high speed acceleration then RWD is your friend. Basically, pending on target goal just need to choose your tool wisely.