Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)

E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 10-17-2012, 09:25 AM
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Francisco
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,007
Mein Auto: 2009 E93 N54
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeoman View Post
you do realize this guy is trolling you and everyone else, right?

The inner Imp made me do it.

Shoulda said: Why so serious?


Name:  Big Smiley.jpg
Views: 275
Size:  33.3 KB

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 10-17-2012 at 11:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 10-17-2012, 09:26 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,718
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
You do realize this guy is trolling you and everyone else, right?
It doesn't bother me. I'm here to have discussions and as long as it's civil I'm fine with it.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 10-17-2012, 04:22 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
Registered User
Location: Washington, DC
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 57
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 335is
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
It doesn't bother me. I'm here to have discussions and as long as it's civil I'm fine with it.
He's making a joke out of your naivety.. If it sounds stupid you're either dealing with a 'tard or you're getting trolled, both equally unworthy of further discussion.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:37 PM
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Francisco
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,007
Mein Auto: 2009 E93 N54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
He's making a joke out of your naivety.. If it sounds stupid you're either dealing with a 'tard or you're getting trolled, both equally unworthy of further discussion.

Goodness gracious, stop with the negative waves!

Not it at all, really....
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10-17-2012, 08:26 PM
SD Z4MR's Avatar
SD Z4MR SD Z4MR is offline
(formerly SD 335is)
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,296
Mein Auto: '06 Z4 MR | '11 335is E92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
You do realize this guy is trolling you and everyone else, right?
Which is why he has been on my ignore list for a long, long, time. Unfortunately, people insist on quoting practically everything he says, so I'm subjected anyway.
__________________
- Tom
-------
Mine: 2006 Z4 Roadster (E85) | Interlagos Blue Metallic | Black Extended Nappa Leather | Carbon Leather Trim | Purchased 7/19/12
Hers: 2011 335is Coupe (E92) | Le Mans Blue Metallic | Black Dakota Leather | Dark Glacier Aluminum | 6MT | ED 5/12/11

BMWCCA #444696 - Click to join and a chance to win a 1-Day M School at the BMW Performance Center!


Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10-17-2012, 09:21 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,718
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
He's making a joke out of your naivety.. If it sounds stupid you're either dealing with a 'tard or you're getting trolled, both equally unworthy of further discussion.
I'm well aware of his posting style:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...43&postcount=8
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 10-17-2012, 09:41 PM
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Francisco
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,007
Mein Auto: 2009 E93 N54
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
I'm well aware of his posting style:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...43&postcount=8

Sunny, very good news: You have won a vintage Leonard Cohen album.

You other guys, I got hours of Jackson Browne fer ya....enjoy!
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 10-17-2012, 09:43 PM
Zeichen311's Avatar
Zeichen311 Zeichen311 is offline
Lost but making good time
Location: Here, there or in transit
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,532
Mein Auto: '11 335xi Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
Which is why he has been on my ignore list for a long, long, time. Unfortunately, people insist on quoting practically everything he says, so I'm subjected anyway.
I'm feelin' your pain Tom, feelin' your pain....
__________________
2011 335xi Individual 6MT - Azurite Black Metallic / Oyster & Black / Anthracite Maple + all the good stuff

   N47 35' 30.13" E11 10' 33.36" - End of break-in...you can guess what came next. BMW CCA
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 10-18-2012, 09:02 AM
fun2drive's Avatar
fun2drive fun2drive is online now
BMWCCA 149159
Location: Panhandle of Florida
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,631
Mein Auto: 335 vert//M3/4/ 13Outback
As an attempt to get this thread back on topic regarding MM Old School Maintenance I follow some of his recommendations. However where you live and how you drive affects the schedule more than blindly following something set in stone. Extended oil changes for example Kola Motor Sports in Columbus, Ohio used to post pictures of BMWs that ran these oil changes. BMW forced Brett Anderson the owner to remove the pics or face litigation. The pics showed severely sludhed engines bearing failures. Now what isn't clear is how they were driven in Ohio. What is clear is that these were local cars subject to larger temperature fluctuations year round than cars in the south where I live most of the time. It all depends short drives say 4 miles twice a day in colder climates in stop and go traffic will provide different results than a 26 mi drive twice a day in warmer climates at freeway speeds. Clearly this factor accounts for more weighting than anything else. My 284K mile E36 M3 had only BMW oil changes using 5W30 synthetic oil. This car lived in AZ and FL and was free of sludge.
Had this car been given the same maintenance treatment in Ohio with short drives with the engine seldom getting out of open loop running the results would be different.
To the point you cannot run a statistical analysis of BMWs program against MM's program because you can't compare components that failed at a certain point against those taken out of service and replaced.
Lifetime fluids is another divigent point between BMW and independents. BMW used to state lifetime fluilds for
Automatic transmissions but now states 100k mi
Changes. Why? Because they failed and BMW has to compete with Lexus etc and their schedules are
Much different. ZF manufacturer of many automatic tramsmissions has recommended 50k mi changes vs BMW now saying 100k mi changes. I side with the manufacturer of the tramsmission not BMW in this case and if I spend too much for maintenance for peace of mind so be it...
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:59 AM
DSXMachina's Avatar
DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
Non compos Mentos
Location: New Hampshire
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,653
Mein Auto: 335i E92 TiAg 6MT ED
Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
[snip]

Lifetime fluids is another divigent point between BMW and independents. BMW used to state lifetime fluilds for
Automatic transmissions but now states 100k mi
Changes. Why? Because they failed and BMW has to compete with Lexus etc and their schedules are
Much different. ZF manufacturer of many automatic tramsmissions has recommended 50k mi changes vs BMW now saying 100k mi changes. I side with the manufacturer of the tramsmission not BMW in this case and if I spend too much for maintenance for peace of mind so be it...
People are willing to pay good money for peace of mind when it comes to their bodies, think life insurance and annual physicals. Why not pay far less yet get a similar result with our cars?
Your point about actual driving conditions being the largest single variable is spot on. One size doesn't fit all, one pill isn't for patients of all ages, and one maintenance plan isn't right for every car. They need to be tailored to location, drive plan and drive style.

Last edited by DSXMachina; 10-18-2012 at 12:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 10-18-2012, 12:15 PM
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Francisco
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,007
Mein Auto: 2009 E93 N54
Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
ZF manufacturer of many automatic tramsmissions has recommended 50k mi changes vs BMW now saying 100k mi changes. I side with the manufacturer of the tramsmission not BMW in this case and if I spend too much for maintenance for peace of mind so be it...

Hey F2D, post a reference if there's one for BMW's Step....want t'salt that one away, bookmarks.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10-18-2012, 12:36 PM
AnotherGeezer's Avatar
AnotherGeezer AnotherGeezer is offline
Hofmeister Kink
Location: ManchVegas, New Hampster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,867
Mein Auto: 2003 530i/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Sunny, very good news: You have won a vintage Leonard Cohen album.
Can't beat that with a hammer!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10-18-2012, 01:20 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,718
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
People are willing to pay good money for peace of mind when it comes to their bodies, think life insurance and annual physicals. Why not pay far less yet get a similar result with our cars?
Like many things meant to take care of people's bodies there's no evidence to support taking such steps offers any tangible benefit. All it does is shift money from your pocket to someone else's.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:16 PM
Kilgore Trout's Avatar
Kilgore Trout Kilgore Trout is offline
Chicks dig Wagons!
Location: Stuck in traffic south of Burbank
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,836
Mein Auto: E91
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
People are willing to pay good money for peace of mind when it comes to their bodies, think life insurance and annual physicals. Why not pay far less yet get a similar result with our cars?
Your point about actual driving conditions being the largest single variable is spot on. One size doesn't fit all, one pill isn't for patients of all ages, and one maintenance plan isn't right for every car. They need to be tailored to location, drive plan and drive style.
That's my main point with regard to oil change interval. I'm not at all convinced that frequent oil changes accomplish anything and I do believe that 15,000 miles would probably be fine. BUT, it costs me an extra $100 a year to do an additional oil change, makes me feel better, and gives me peace of mine. Other than the possible implications for the environment, there really is no downside.
__________________
2009 E91 Montego Blue w/ Gray Dakota 6AT ZPP/Logic7/Sirius/Idrive/Butt warmers/6FL/PCD/CA/6NL/Xenons
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 10-18-2012, 06:37 PM
pointandgo's Avatar
pointandgo pointandgo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Los Angeles area
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,829
Mein Auto: '13 F10 535i (loaner)
God bless Mike Miller...he's highly knowledgeable in many areas, but when I "called him" on some erroneous tire engineering/technical comments some years ago (Roundel) he declined to acknowledge his error and retract it. He's quite proud and incapable of admitting a mistake (or at least I can't ever recall that he did).
__________________
F30 328i
E90 328i
E92 335i 6MT
E46 M3 6MT
E39 528i 5MT
MBz W140 S320
MBz W124 300E (slammed)
(unmentionables in between)
'71 AMC Javelin (4-Spd Stick on the floor)
'67 Pontiac Firebird 'cabrio' (1st car - "the leaker")
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Member: BMW CCA

Last edited by pointandgo; 10-18-2012 at 06:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 10-28-2012, 10:33 AM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: Sierra foothills
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,957
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
As an attempt to get this thread back on topic



Lifetime fluids is another divigent point between BMW and independents. BMW used to state lifetime fluilds for
Automatic transmissions but now states 100k mi
Changes. Why? Because they failed and BMW has to compete with Lexus etc and their schedules are
Much different. ZF manufacturer of many automatic tramsmissions has recommended 50k mi changes vs BMW now saying 100k mi changes. I side with the manufacturer of the tramsmission not BMW in this case and if I spend too much for maintenance for peace of mind so be it...
Lets forget at OCIs..beat to death. 10k or 15k, who cares?

But I would be interested to hear knowledgeable opionons on ATF changes (which eliminates the need for replies from any moron saying we need to have 'evidence of benefits' before considering something other than BMWs recommendations)

I find it interesting that BMW puts the ATF change past the end of the CPO warranty (for all practical purposes)...and when you roll in to any dealer with 99,999 miles they will say "look, you dont want to mess with that, it can stir up stuff that can cause the tranny to fail".

My position is that fluids degrade- wear products contiminate- and fresh fluid and removal of crud (at say 30, 40, 50k intervals) is the best plan.

Comments?

A

PS DSX missed the word "prophylactically" when he said 'I would not recommend replacement'..but it was implied and clear to all except one....
__________________
Keep it as simple as possible...but no simpler.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10-28-2012, 11:05 AM
ctuna ctuna is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: usa
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,385
Mein Auto: 325xi wagon
Fyi

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=627435

ICE engines still burn fuel with byproducts its not that different than it ever was.
You may not want to follow Mikes aircraft maintenance approach but it sure warns you
where the expected trouble spots are so you can monitor those spots for trouble.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 10-28-2012, 12:53 PM
tturedraider's Avatar
tturedraider tturedraider is offline
Freedom isn't free!!
Location: Chicago, north shore (via Tennessee & Texas)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,436
Mein Auto: '06 Sonora/Beige 330i :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
A dry run of small sample size.

Acid test: Coast t'coast routed through Phoenix or Yuma to LA in Monsoon Season.

Parents must be at least 10 years past retirement age to be eligible. Octagenarian or better preferred.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
You said, and I quote:

"I recommend you make the journey and document your results"

I did exactly what you recommended. Now you're trying to move the goal posts.
You fail to recognize that CALWATERBOY has a very dry sense of humor and, as with many of his posts (and virtually all in this thread), was being facetious.
__________________

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- Geo. Orwell

2006 330i Sonora w/ ActiveAutoWerke flash tune :-)
2004 330i ZHP Imola/NB - missed
2000 328i TiAg - gone but not forgotten

** Join the BMW CCA www.bmwcca.org
member #388003 - Use me as a referral & you could win a one day ///M Driving School!! **
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10-28-2012, 02:00 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.F. Bay Area
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,807
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Lets forget at OCIs..beat to death. 10k or 15k, who cares?

But I would be interested to hear knowledgeable opionons on ATF changes (which eliminates the need for replies from any moron saying we need to have 'evidence of benefits' before considering something other than BMWs recommendations)

I find it interesting that BMW puts the ATF change past the end of the CPO warranty (for all practical purposes)...and when you roll in to any dealer with 99,999 miles they will say "look, you dont want to mess with that, it can stir up stuff that can cause the tranny to fail".

My position is that fluids degrade- wear products contiminate- and fresh fluid and removal of crud (at say 30, 40, 50k intervals) is the best plan.

Comments?

A

PS DSX missed the word "prophylactically" when he said 'I would not recommend replacement'..but it was implied and clear to all except one....
If you are looking for confirmation of your approach, send a sample of the fluid off for analysis. My personal experience is that 'lifetime' transmission fluid starts to degrade below spec around the 45K mile point.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 10-28-2012, 02:02 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.F. Bay Area
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,807
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout View Post
That's my main point with regard to oil change interval. I'm not at all convinced that frequent oil changes accomplish anything and I do believe that 15,000 miles would probably be fine. BUT, it costs me an extra $100 a year to do an additional oil change, makes me feel better, and gives me peace of mine. Other than the possible implications for the environment, there really is no downside.
What implications for the environment? Used oil is re-cycled, unless one is intentionally wanting to pollute.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 10-28-2012, 02:27 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,718
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
You fail to recognize that CALWATERBOY has a very dry sense of humor and, as with many of his posts (and virtually all in this thread), was being facetious.
Uh, no. See an earlier post of mine where I referenced a post about his posting style
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10-28-2012, 05:11 PM
Kilgore Trout's Avatar
Kilgore Trout Kilgore Trout is offline
Chicks dig Wagons!
Location: Stuck in traffic south of Burbank
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,836
Mein Auto: E91
Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
What implications for the environment? Used oil is re-cycled, unless one is intentionally wanting to pollute.
Re-cycling is not at zero sum game. There is actually a lot of energy and a fair bit of raw material consumed.
__________________
2009 E91 Montego Blue w/ Gray Dakota 6AT ZPP/Logic7/Sirius/Idrive/Butt warmers/6FL/PCD/CA/6NL/Xenons
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 10-28-2012, 08:57 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.F. Bay Area
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,807
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout View Post
Re-cycling is not at zero sum game. There is actually a lot of energy and a fair bit of raw material consumed.
How so? URL? If you want to go into the weeds.... What about the cost of engines that fail prematurely due to oil not sufficiently lubing? There is the re-manufacturing (or scrapping) cost that is incurred sooner than would have occurred if the oil had been changed more frequently. Somehow, I suspect the re-manufacturing/pre-mature scrapping cost far exceeds the cost of the lost oil in re-cycling.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 10-29-2012, 09:40 AM
Kilgore Trout's Avatar
Kilgore Trout Kilgore Trout is offline
Chicks dig Wagons!
Location: Stuck in traffic south of Burbank
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,836
Mein Auto: E91
Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
How so? URL? If you want to go into the weeds.... What about the cost of engines that fail prematurely due to oil not sufficiently lubing? There is the re-manufacturing (or scrapping) cost that is incurred sooner than would have occurred if the oil had been changed more frequently. Somehow, I suspect the re-manufacturing/pre-mature scrapping cost far exceeds the cost of the lost oil in re-cycling.
Not to be disrespectful, but I really couldn't be less interested in debating the pros and cons of recycling with you. It was just a off hand quip, let it go.
__________________
2009 E91 Montego Blue w/ Gray Dakota 6AT ZPP/Logic7/Sirius/Idrive/Butt warmers/6FL/PCD/CA/6NL/Xenons

Last edited by Kilgore Trout; 10-29-2012 at 09:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 10-29-2012, 09:53 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,718
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
How so? URL? If you want to go into the weeds.... What about the cost of engines that fail prematurely due to oil not sufficiently lubing? There is the re-manufacturing (or scrapping) cost that is incurred sooner than would have occurred if the oil had been changed more frequently. Somehow, I suspect the re-manufacturing/pre-mature scrapping cost far exceeds the cost of the lost oil in re-cycling.
Again: I have seen no evidence showing adhering to BMW's recommend oil change intervals reduces engine life. If you have some data to support as much then I'd be very interested in seeing it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms