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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 11-02-2012, 05:45 PM
r0gue r0gue is offline
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Upgrade my E46 to F30? Worth it? Anyone disagree?

I've done some research and it seems the electric steering may not be as enjoyable as the old hydro steering. I'm wondering if anyone more deeply rooted in the BMW product might be willing to advise me. Is the F30 worth making the jump or should I try to get an E90 in good shape, ...

...or should I count my blessings as the E46 was a masterpiece!

Certainly would love to hear some input from you all. Oh, BTW --- New to the forum. Hi All!
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2012, 06:22 PM
QAfred QAfred is offline
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why buy either? is there something wrong with your 2005, 325i? car payments suck! so I don't understand.
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  #3  
Old 11-02-2012, 06:27 PM
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A fair question. I'm tempted to get the bigger more powerful motor, I'd love to have the heated steering wheel, and I think I'd go with the X-Drive to benefit from the AWD. I've owned an 88 E28 528e, and my current 2005 325i. But I've never been in a position to get what I really want before now. Now I can do that, but I'm not sure what I want. Is everything newer better or... is there a possibility that there have been compromises which make staying behind a little bit a net plus. Or at least -- said another way -- maybe going up isn't at all worth the expense.
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  #4  
Old 11-02-2012, 06:34 PM
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It depends on whether you like a new car or not. Yes, more powerful, but is it worth it? I still have my '01 jet black E46 330i SP, 5 spd (Buick steering replaced by BMW free) with lots of little issues, 2 bad window regulators (had all 4 replaced under warranty), windshield plastic trim starting to crack, service engine light on due to slight vacuum leak, slight leak from the windshield washer tank, a little loss of coolants, leaking few drops of oil, but damn, the car still run like a charm with 142K miles. Just came home from a 3000+ mile road trip, 29.4 mpg, 130 mph (GPS verified) top speed. Except for the sand blasted front, the exterior still look fairly new because it has always been garaged. It boils down to do I want a new boring F30 335i with 300 hp or a used 2007 997 Turbo with 480 hp (a little more money). The decision was a no brainer. No regrets what so ever.
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Last edited by Dave 330i; 11-02-2012 at 06:43 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-02-2012, 06:37 PM
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I hear you. If you can afford it without too much pain. It is definitely not worth it but here is my wife's dream car. I am holding out as long as I can as she has 212k on her 323i.

46 k with options, M sport package...check it out.

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...modelcode=133A

Last edited by QAfred; 11-02-2012 at 06:41 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-02-2012, 06:38 PM
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If you have lots of kids and a large extended family that likes to travel comfortably together in the same car, and don't mind folks mistaking what you drive for a 5-series, and Chris Bangle is your hero, and you're happy with road-car-driver disconnect (you'll be especially happy with the electric steering), and love an almost flat non-driver-centric cockpit and a cheap non-sensical dash and interior with sh*t all over the place, and you're eager to be a beta tester for all the design and technology sh*t that the krauts put into a car that may be bested in a year or two by Cadillac and a host of other mfg's that BMW (in its infinite marketing wisdom) decided to "move up to" and f*ck with, and love spending time at your BMW service center swapping stories with other first-adopters, and can swallow (with a smile) the indignation of having folks tell the guy parked next to you how much they like his new Ford Fusion, then yes, "upgrade".
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:49 PM
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^^^ lol!
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  #8  
Old 11-02-2012, 06:55 PM
r0gue r0gue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdd View Post
If you have lots of kids and a large extended family that likes to travel comfortably together in the same car, and don't mind folks mistaking what you drive for a 5-series, and Chris Bangle is your hero, and you're happy with road-car-driver disconnect (you'll be especially happy with the electric steering), and love an almost flat non-driver-centric cockpit and a cheap non-sensical dash and interior with sh*t all over the place, and you're eager to be a beta tester for all the design and technology sh*t that the krauts put into a car that may be bested in a year or two by Cadillac and a host of other mfg's that BMW (in its infinite marketing wisdom) decided to "move up to" and f*ck with, and love spending time at your BMW service center swapping stories with other first-adopters, and can swallow (with a smile) the indignation of having folks tell the guy parked next to you how much they like his new Ford Fusion, then yes, "upgrade".
YYYYeeeeeeeeeeOuch!

Interesting points about the first adopters. Would love to hear your thoughts on the E90. --- or perhaps a new 135i
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  #9  
Old 11-02-2012, 08:50 PM
tdd tdd is offline
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Would love to hear your thoughts on the E90. --- or perhaps a new 135i
E9X - Chris Bangle laughed and smiled as he shoved 3-series fun (and heritage) up our collective ass-holes

1-series - had high hopes but so far its ugly and boring and my two boys think its, well, a girl's car (their phrase, not mine, but thank you Chris for again creating another positive BMW the image). BMW is trying to pass it off as the next E46. The coupe and convert will be called the "2-series"...like the no. 2 pencils we all needed for any entrance exam anyone of us had to take to get admitted anywhere or to anything...college/military/green card...the birth, I guess, of another "heritage".
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Last edited by tdd; 11-02-2012 at 09:14 PM.
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  #10  
Old 11-02-2012, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdd View Post
and Chris Bangle is your hero
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdd View Post
E9X - Chris Bangle laughed and smiled as he shoved 3-series fun (and heritage) up our collective ass-holes

but thank you Chris for again creating another positive BMW the image). BMW is trying to pass it off as the next E46.
You both know that Chris Bangle played a very large part in the design of our E46s.... right???
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  #11  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:12 PM
tdd tdd is offline
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You both know that Chris Bangle played a very large part in the design of our E46s.... right???
Another urnban legend. He designed (or was part of the team that designed) the mid-run facelift for the E46. After that, he went postal (E9X, 750i, etc.)
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  #12  
Old 11-03-2012, 12:26 AM
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since our happy festers have already expressed their ever ending love towards the newer 3-series :rolf:
i would suggest to either stick with the E46 but get a 330 or an M3 (if u'r looking for more power with perfect handling), or move on to another brand that is most recent and has the luxury u'r looking for (heated steering wheel... why exactly? )
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  #13  
Old 11-03-2012, 01:02 AM
lgr122 lgr122 is offline
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Aren't you asking from wrong people? We here like e46.
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2012, 04:54 AM
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The only new E9x, E8x, F3x worth getting:

E9x= 335is or M3
E8x= 1M
F3x= None so far, even the m sport package doesn't add anything close to the E46 ZHP. Mostly cosmetic upgrades.

Closest to what the older BMWs used to offer- a driver's car without all the electronic nannies and gimmicks plus not going mainstream market for volume sales.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:20 AM
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I'd get an E46 M3 over a 135i, even though I love the 1 series.

Do you like raw or comfort? The F30and even E90 trade rawness and connection for comfort and refinement. The E90 loaners I get feel really nice, and I prefer them to my ZHP on a commute, but on a back road the E46 is more fun. E90 335i would be a great compromise, but for me, why spend the money for a compromise?
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  #16  
Old 11-03-2012, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lgr122 View Post
Aren't you asking from wrong people? We here like e46.
It is a possibility. I had assumed there would be some "look out for this", or "avoid that", but that there would be some, "the new xyzThingy will be great". Having once owned an E28, I'm wondering if back then when I was buying my E46 if this same sentiment was held toward the E46. Or if the new F30 is just truely Sheisse
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  #17  
Old 11-03-2012, 06:56 AM
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Presumably you've read all the threads in the F30 forum. There are several discussing (well, ranting?) about the magazine comparisons. There are several saying how much better they are than the E9x. (There are several on the E9x forum ranting about how much worse they are than the E9x.)

Nevertheless, the F30 328i (turbo 4) appears to be really really really good. But it's quite a different car than the E46: only if you go E46-E9x-F30 would you feel the evolutionary changes. If you get the adaptive sport suspension and sport variable steering, you'll be way good, IMO.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdd View Post
If you have lots of kids and a large extended family that likes to travel comfortably together in the same car, and don't mind folks mistaking what you drive for a 5-series, and Chris Bangle is your hero, and you're happy with road-car-driver disconnect (you'll be especially happy with the electric steering), and love an almost flat non-driver-centric cockpit and a cheap non-sensical dash and interior with sh*t all over the place, and you're eager to be a beta tester for all the design and technology sh*t that the krauts put into a car that may be bested in a year or two by Cadillac and a host of other mfg's that BMW (in its infinite marketing wisdom) decided to "move up to" and f*ck with, and love spending time at your BMW service center swapping stories with other first-adopters, and can swallow (with a smile) the indignation of having folks tell the guy parked next to you how much they like his new Ford Fusion, then yes, "upgrade".
Poast of the month.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by av98 View Post
The only new E9x, E8x, F3x worth getting:

E9x= 335is or M3
E8x= 1M
F3x= None so far, even the m sport package doesn't add anything close to the E46 ZHP. Mostly cosmetic upgrades.

Closest to what the older BMWs used to offer- a driver's car without all the electronic nannies and gimmicks plus not going mainstream market for volume sales.
See bold.

/thread
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  #20  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:29 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is online now
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I'd buy an F30 and probbaly will down the line.

At some point our e46's are going to become too old for reliable daily service and we will all "upgrade" to somehting else and you may have reached that point with your 325i. People who drove 2002's then E30's all thought the newer models (including the E46) were crap. Some of them are now driving Prius's or ES330's - poor lost souls...

Having had an E90 and currently owning a Bangle designed / early gen iDrive'ed / run flat equipped 650i - I would say buy the F30 if you like it. My E90 was an 06 330i and I loved its performance, gas mileage, electronic convenience, and yes - reliability.
The 650i is now 5 years old and out of warranty, but in the 3 years I have had it I have done nothing to it except fluid an filter changes. The people who bitch about iDrive never bothered to read the manual or never used it and are just repeating what they heard /read from others who never bothered to read the manual. I think mine is a second gen version and it works fine (if a little slow on the navigation part). I was able to use it immediately after getting in the car, I read the manual the first night, and it's a none-issue. I like the car and while it's big and not as sprite as an e46 in the twisties, it's a fantastic long distance driver - as was the E90.

I have a MINI Countryman All4 that i will probably replace with a Euro Delivery F30 335i x-Drive in a couple of years. Maybe I'm drinking too much of the BMW Kool-Aid, but I'm having a good time doing it.

Life is too short, if you are in a position to get an F30 and that's what you want, get it!
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:41 AM
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This probably sums it up on the 3 series line of evolution in regards to US models:

E21= great entry into the sport compact luxury line, a smaller version of the 3.0 csl. Underpowered with the I4 but still a great chassis. Lots of quirks and rattles. Typical of a new model entry. Used both I4 & I6 engines.

E30= huge leap in technology and refinement going into the 80-90s, took advantage of better EFI, abs, LSD, disc brakes, chassis tuning. IMHO, the crown jewel & best 3 series from BMW in terms of authentic driving experience with no artificial driving assists. Used both I4 & I6 engines.

E36= another leap in technology, design and refinement, took advantage of OBD I & II, I6 engine only, VANOS. Carried over most of the technology advancements from the E30. The last mostly mechanical/hydraulic 3 series BMW built.

E46= great refinement above the previous model but not a leap. Fixed the quirks and rawness of the E36 such as the rattles and loose parts that would occur over time. Took advantage of Double VANOS, more advanced and refined suspension nannies- asc/dsc, abs; however it eliminated the LSD on everything except the M3. Fly-by-wire technology added which detracted the linear response of the older mechanical/hydraulic system; added a delay in response and precision but was minimal compared to the E9x with variable steering. IMHO, this was the best and most refined compromise for an authentic classic driving experience with minimal electronic nannies assistance. Used I6 engines only.

E9x= target market -> mainstream, totally different path towards the evolution of the 3 series. Took advantage of FI engines- turbocharging, variable steering, adaptive suspension, stiffer chassis even if the body got longer, bigger and heavier. The FI engines are great masterpieces, best part of the E9x evolution. They responded similar to an 8 cylinder engine with the fuel economy of a 6. The stiffer chassis made great improvements in limit driving & safety; however, the driving experience became too harsh with not enough refinement or feedback (whole car dynamics was skewed). It felt like they couldn't find the perfect balance with the engine, chassis & suspension that the E46 perfectly refined from the E36. Suspension tuning was geared for the more aggressive, probably to also compensate for the FI engines. Steering input added variable steering which added to the non-linear feel of the fly-by-wire along with more loss of precision; probably over compensation by the new tech. The interior was revamped to the more common driver oriented full controls vs the all passenger concept of keeping all the controls accessible from the center of the car. Since it was their first foray it was expectedly low quality for a first effort. Cabin insulation also seemed to be increased so external decibel levels weren't as high; numbing the sensory experience. However sometimes you need to hear the tire squeals and engine revs as a confirmation of what your hands and feet are feeling.

F9x= target market -> even more mainstream Lexus crowd. New technology are turbocharged I4, adjustable situational settings, regenerative braking, auto start/stop, dynamic handling (variable steering assist & adaptive suspension). The F30 is the closest thing to a Swiss Army knife BMW, it allows you to customize your ride depending on your driving style an mood. Unfortunately, due to this please all target it compromised on the BMW driving experience of old- the sportiest setting isn't close to the ultra aggressive E9x or the perfectly refined E46 or raw E30. It sort of falls in between the E90 and E46; imho, this is due to the extra size and weight gain of the car. The current F30 is as big and heavy as the old E39 5 series from the early 2000s. The dynamic handling package is great for people who don't make the driving experience a priority and rely on the electronic nannies to make them a better driver. The interior has improved with the F30, way better than the E90. All in all the F30 is a good all around car which just needs improvement on the top end sporty experience.
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  #22  
Old 11-03-2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0gue View Post
It is a possibility. I had assumed there would be some "look out for this", or "avoid that", but that there would be some, "the new xyzThingy will be great". Having once owned an E28, I'm wondering if back then when I was buying my E46 if this same sentiment was held toward the E46. Or if the new F30 is just truely Sheisse
The E46 is a wonderful, wonderful model, but at this point the E46 forum, where I have many fine friends, is populated by the seriously hardcore E46 fanatics. If you want more objective opinions about changing from an E46 to an F30 you need to ask in the F30 forum for the opinions of owners who have actually made the switch.

Yes, when the E46 came out it received a similar reception from E30 owners (two generations removed, as theE46 is from the F30) and to a lesser degree from E36 owners. Naturally each succeeding iteration of each BMW model moves the brand closer to the sh!t pile. It's getting really close now to where no one will buy BMWs anymore and the company will go belly up.
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  #23  
Old 11-03-2012, 12:03 PM
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The new BMW's have jumped the shark. The new 4 cyl. turbo is a good engine, but it has a PLASTIC oil pan. I wonder if it has to be changed at 60K like our cooling systems?
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  #24  
Old 11-03-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tdd View Post
Another urnban legend. He designed (or was part of the team that designed) the mid-run facelift for the E46. After that, he went postal (E9X, 750i, etc.)
Not an urban legend, like "you" said he was part of the designed the facelifted E46, but Bangle was also part of the design team that did the pre-facelift... the only difference with the E9x, E6x, and 750i was that he was the head of design division. No one person can design an entire car by themselves.

Sorry for the thread jack, back to topic at hand
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:55 PM
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av98's post is spot on!


Quote:
Originally Posted by SJBimmer View Post
The new BMW's have jumped the shark. The new 4 cyl. turbo is a good engine, but it has a PLASTIC oil pan. I wonder if it has to be changed at 60K like our cooling systems?
SJBimmer, I did not know that oil pan is now plastic on the new F chassis BMWs. I am also wondering if it will need to replaced like our cooling systems.
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