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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #76  
Old 12-04-2008, 05:03 AM
Black 335xi Black 335xi is offline
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scraper - have several - not the issue.

question is the amount of idle time, which was between 5 to 10 minutes
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  #77  
Old 12-04-2008, 07:52 AM
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VIZSLA VIZSLA is offline
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When an owner complained to Ettore Bugatti that his car was hard to start in the cold Le Patron replied "If you can afford one of my cars you can afford a heated garage".
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  #78  
Old 12-04-2008, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim View Post
idling is not the most efficient way to warm up the engine. Nor is it environment-friendly. The best way is to get going applying light load, i.e. No flooring until the engine reaches its nominal temperature.
+1
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  #79  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:35 AM
Sundance1 Sundance1 is offline
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So I am going to stress my engine without too much of an option other than building another garage or selling my other toys.

I live in Montreal...where the months December to March will have morning temperatures ranging from -7 F to 20 F.

My single garage is filled with my '71 stingray and HD Fatboy.

My new 335 is arriving around end of Dec and it will be sitting outside on the driveway from day 1.

Now my commute to work is only 6 miles, hardly enough time to get it nice and hot! And donít forget I am in the break in period where I want to treat the engine right!

What to do?
Is there an OEM oil/block heater available? Would that be my solution ?
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  #80  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance1 View Post
So I am going to stress my engine without too much of an option other than building another garage or selling my other toys.

I live in Montreal...where the months December to March will have morning temperatures ranging from -7 F to 20 F.

My single garage is filled with my '71 stingray and HD Fatboy.

My new 335 is arriving around end of Dec and it will be sitting outside on the driveway from day 1.

Now my commute to work is only 6 miles, hardly enough time to get it nice and hot! And donít forget I am in the break in period where I want to treat the engine right!

What to do?
Is there an OEM oil/block heater available? Would that be my solution ?
You could have the block heater and the car still wouldn't warm up (transmission and such) except for the engine before you get to work.

dj
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  #81  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:56 AM
franka franka is offline
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Block heater is better than oil heater which can burn the oil at a molecular level. Im not sure if there are OEM units. I would guess not.

There are battery heaters too that are flat and go under the battery. You would want to use a zero wt oil like 0W30 or 0W40

An excellent thing for your motor would be to pump the oil thru the engine before you crank it. There are sytems on the market to do that. It has to be tied into a main oil gallery.

Just 10 to 15 seconds should be enough to flow the oil to all locations before cranking the motor. Cold starting is the single largest contributor to engine wear.

I lived in Alaska for a couple years so I'm familiar with these methods.

The other thing in cold climates is to avoid moisture from collecting in your gas tank. Keep it full so there is less air in the tank and use quality fuel filters and additives to absorb the moisture. Straight alcolhol dumped in your tank also works very well and you don't need much, less than 15% of a full tank, when you tank is relative full.

Some pump gas already has alcohol in it, up to 10%. Do not add to these gasolines.
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Last edited by franka; 12-10-2008 at 06:40 AM.
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  #82  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:59 AM
Shocktopus Shocktopus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance1 View Post

Now my commute to work is only 6 miles, hardly enough time to get it nice and hot! And donít forget I am in the break in period where I want to treat the engine right!

What to do?
I'll refrain from making snarky comments about complaining about a 6 mile commute. I've got a 45-minute commute on a good day!

Get up earlier, and go for a drive every morning. Take some nice sideroads or go the lightly traveled direction on freeways. Enjoy the freedom you have been blessed with by that 6-mile commute.
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  #83  
Old 12-05-2008, 11:20 AM
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Mk23 Mk23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocktopus View Post
I'll refrain from making snarky comments about complaining about a 6 mile commute. I've got a 45-minute commute on a good day!

Get up earlier, and go for a drive every morning. Take some nice sideroads or go the lightly traveled direction on freeways. Enjoy the freedom you have been blessed with by that 6-mile commute.
+1

Be thankful you don't have my 4 mile commute!
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  #84  
Old 12-08-2008, 02:26 PM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djfitter View Post
You could have the block heater and the car still wouldn't warm up (transmission and such) except for the engine before you get to work.

dj
If it works in Alaska it will work here. It will not bring the engine up to operating temp but you can feel the difference bwteen the block and the other metal on the car. It will certainly raise it above freezing.

Stuations vary. It will work better in a garage than in the wind outside. Even a light bulb will raise the temp in your garage assuming it not drafty.

In Fairbanks Alaska they have electrical boxes on the metter stands on the street with provsion to plug in your heaters (more than one is the norm up there).
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  #85  
Old 12-08-2008, 03:42 PM
cgajjar330i cgajjar330i is offline
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Please explain why you shouldn't idle

I have read enough on this forum to know your not supposed to keep your car idling for more than 10-15 seconds because it puts a load on the catalytic converter. My question is what do you do if your stopped at a light? does that put a load on the catalytic converter as well?
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  #86  
Old 12-08-2008, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgajjar330i View Post
I have read enough on this forum to know your not supposed to keep your car idling for more than 10-15 seconds because it puts a load on the catalytic converter. My question is what do you do if your stopped at a light? does that put a load on the catalytic converter as well?
A cold engine runs richer?
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  #87  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:28 PM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgajjar330i View Post
I have read enough on this forum to know your not supposed to keep your car idling for more than 10-15 seconds because it puts a load on the catalytic converter. My question is what do you do if your stopped at a light? does that put a load on the catalytic converter as well?

Personlly I will let it idle for a min or 2. Personally the 10 to 15 seconds to me is pure BS.

Letting it idle for a min or two does no damage. Can anyone tell us why over 15 seconds does damage and what is that damage?
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  #88  
Old 12-09-2008, 10:16 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Our Bimmers have heated O2 sensors which enable the ECU to precisely control air/fuel mixture within seconds after starting. In addition the ECU has "learned" over the last X number of starting sequences at Y temperature what the best air/fuel mix is to start your car most effiently this time. I don't think that idling our engines for even an hour is going to cause the slightest amount of damage. Not even to the cats which the ECU is programmed to protect. Your MIL/CEL would come on long before the cats were damaged.
When we talk about the "best" idling/low speed/high speed sequence we need to define "best". Best use of the owner's time? Best for overall MPG? Best for engine longevity, etc? Life is a compromise, and so is "best". Here's my personal cold start method, used year round, which doesn't vary unless I'm defrosting the windows: Start the engine, idle for 15-30 seconds, drive moderately at under 3k rpm until the oil temperature is showing at least 180, then drive it like it was intended. Keep in mind that here in NH that we are "forced" to idle for extended periods to get the ice off the windows. Even if we do have heated garages at home, most of us do not at our jobs.
I do think that as a GENERAL rule, all other things being equal, an engine in San Diego will show less wear than an engine in Manchester NH due to the fifty degree cooler average Winter temperature in NH. Speaking of san Diego, I just got back from a week there. Wow, nice cars, even the taxis have 21" BBS's and quad exhausts.
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  #89  
Old 12-09-2008, 11:05 AM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black 335xi View Post
Good question - bumping

This morning had a nice thick layer of frost left idling for a few minutes - guess that's a bad thing - what to do?
Idling to warm up a car is not "a bad thing." It just isn't necessary under normal conditions. It's a waste of gas and a source of unnecessary pollution. If you need to get the car warm to clear the windows it is far better to do that than to drive with impaired vision. More: If you have a very short commute (let's say less than 10-15 minutes) it's better to idle for a few minutes before you leave than for you to have to shut your engine down cold day after day. As a general rule , when you shut it down it should be warm enough to vaporize any moisture in the exhaust system.

Last edited by ProRail; 12-09-2008 at 11:16 AM. Reason: more stuff
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  #90  
Old 12-09-2008, 11:29 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProRail View Post
Idling to warm up a car is not "a bad thing." It just isn't necessary under normal conditions. It's a waste of gas and a source of unnecessary pollution. If you need to get the car warm to clear the windows it is far better to do that than to drive with impaired vision. More: If you have a very short commute (let's say less than 10-15 minutes) it's better to idle for a few minutes before you leave than for you to have to shut your engine down cold day after day. As a general rule , when you shut it down it should be warm enough to vaporize any moisture in the exhaust system.
+1! My commute is only 1.4 miles and one traffic light. If I miss the light it can take me up to six minutes to get to work, how aggravating. I always run the engine until the engine oil is up to temperature before shutting it down. Even after arriving at work my oil gauge is pegged on cold most mornings.
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  #91  
Old 12-09-2008, 12:10 PM
franka franka is offline
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Just a simple question...why are the 3 series guys posting here? It's ok to post here but I would not be posting in the 3 series.

Sales as a vendor, anyway you can get it?
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  #92  
Old 12-09-2008, 12:56 PM
Shocktopus Shocktopus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Just a simple question...why are the 3 series guys posting here? It's ok to post here but I would not be posting in the 3 series.

Sales as a vendor, anyway you can get it?
I'm seeing this in the E9x forum, so that's why I'm posting in it. Maybe the moderators crossposted it since it is of general interest.
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  #93  
Old 12-09-2008, 01:17 PM
Black 335xi Black 335xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProRail View Post
Idling to warm up a car is not "a bad thing." It just isn't necessary under normal conditions. It's a waste of gas and a source of unnecessary pollution. If you need to get the car warm to clear the windows it is far better to do that than to drive with impaired vision. More: If you have a very short commute (let's say less than 10-15 minutes) it's better to idle for a few minutes before you leave than for you to have to shut your engine down cold day after day. As a general rule , when you shut it down it should be warm enough to vaporize any moisture in the exhaust system.
thanks ProRail - this has been an interesting discussion topic.

In the summer i never warm up the car, i only warm it up to a defrost windows so I can see.

Living in New England this can happen as early as October and last into March.

I have anywhere between a half hour to 45 minute commute based on traffic conditions so cold shut off is not a problem.
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  #94  
Old 12-09-2008, 07:37 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Just a simple question...why are the 3 series guys posting here? It's ok to post here but I would not be posting in the 3 series.

Sales as a vendor, anyway you can get it?
Huh? What? Why are YOU posting THIS here?
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  #95  
Old 12-10-2008, 06:32 AM
franka franka is offline
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My error. Thought it was an E39 thread. Don't know how I got into this thread in the 1st place.
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Last edited by franka; 12-10-2008 at 06:42 AM.
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  #96  
Old 11-10-2012, 05:01 PM
alcofribas alcofribas is offline
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Originally Posted by desertdriver View Post
Dont confuse yourself with the synthetic vs petroleum oil arguements. Its all about hydrocarbon chain length and its relation to temperature dependent viscosity. All synthetic oils are hydrocarbons, just like petroleum based oils, they just have different polydispersity(better in synthetics). Think like a scientist not a lawyer. Molecular physics is molecualr physics, whether you pull the molecules out of the ground or synthesize them in a lab or plant the behaviors are consistent. the greater polydispersity of the mineral oils make them a bit better at lower temps.


Here is an article that compares the two if you care to read it. The (petroleum based)mineral oils actually lubricate better at low temps(thicker film before parts expand). this means that its even more important for synthetics to warm them up. Yeah, I used to be a metallurgist, so I know about expanding metals.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...?articleid=586
Very interesting article in Machinery Lubrication. Thanks! Back in the 1990's, if I'm not mistaken, SAAB had a spate of problems with sludge collecting in its engines' oil pan, eventually threatening the oil pickup and its filter, thus eventually destroying the engine. This article very clearly states how the sludge can form, from water, fungi, etc. The problem was eventually solved (before SAAB redesigned their engines) by a third party which modified the oil pan with a bolt-on plate which could be dropped, thus allowing the sludge to be removed manually. (We own a 2001 Z3, but are on our 9th and last SAAB (a 2007) since 1974. Our last SAAB for obvious reasons).
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