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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > M Series > E46 M3 (2001-2006)

E46 M3 (2001-2006)

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  #1  
Old 11-07-2012, 09:12 AM
kisas kisas is offline
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So the SMG M3 does not have a clutch foot pedal?

Sorry for this stupid question. I watched a lot of youtube videos, it seems that a SMT car does not need a clutch foot pedal, to disengage the engine rotation from drive shaft.

How different you guys feels with this SMT without foot pedal? comparing with the stick-shift car?

Have all newer M3 models moved to SMT?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2012, 03:53 PM
ebloom ebloom is offline
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Correct, no clutch pedal. Driving the car feels the same as a manual with a clutch, except the car is operating the clutch for you. You will feel the clutch engage itself as you begin to accelerate. A little spooky the first time you drive it, but you get used to it quickly.

Search the forum for lots of info specific to the SMG transmission in this car.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2012, 06:06 AM
kisas kisas is offline
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Thanks.

I actually spent two days studying mechanics, from basic question like how clutch works. But never got a chance to try a stick shift car. All of the Racing cars I have seen on TV or movies have a stick shift. I'm just wondering that if it feels normal without a clutch?
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  #4  
Old 11-09-2012, 02:19 PM
ebloom ebloom is offline
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Try to find someone to teach you to drive a stick. (You can read about how to ride a bicycle, but you need to actually ride it to learn.) Things will make more sense once you've driven a stick (and operated the clutch yourself.)
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2012, 02:46 PM
ModBargains III ModBargains III is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kisas View Post
Sorry for this stupid question. I watched a lot of youtube videos, it seems that a SMT car does not need a clutch foot pedal, to disengage the engine rotation from drive shaft.

How different you guys feels with this SMT without foot pedal? comparing with the stick-shift car?

Have all newer M3 models moved to SMT?

Thanks!
It is a Sequential Manual Transmission, but BMW lists it at SMG (gearbox, not transmission), just to get the lingo down... You are correct, SMG does not have a clutch because it's a sequential box (yes I know some sequential boxes in race applications do have clutches if syncros are not involved).

I've driven a SMG M3 quite a few times in the past, it's not bad to have if you've never had a proper manual before, but there are so many issues that are SMG related, it's not enough for me to recommend a car with that transmission.

Newer E92 M3's for example use a Double Clutch Transmission (DCT), which is significantly better than it's previous examples on the E46 M3 (SMG).
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  #6  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kisas View Post
All of the Racing cars I have seen on TV or movies have a stick shift. I'm just wondering that if it feels normal without a clutch?
Watch Formula 1, World Rallye Championship and several other top level racing series and they ALL use a similar type of transmission.

It HAS a clutch. It just doesn't have a clutch pedal. The clutch is operated by the computer.
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  #7  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:28 AM
kisas kisas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModBargains III View Post
Newer E92 M3's for example use a Double Clutch Transmission (DCT), which is significantly better than it's previous examples on the E46 M3 (SMG).
Thanks for your confirmation!

I watched how DCT works videos. From my understanding, DCT does not engage/disengage since there is always one gear engaged (either even number gear or odd number gear). And I test drove a 335is. I didn't notice/remember there was a foot pedal for clutch.

Isn't it less fun to drive a M3 without left foot involved?
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:30 AM
kisas kisas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
Watch Formula 1, World Rallye Championship and several other top level racing series and they ALL use a similar type of transmission.

It HAS a clutch. It just doesn't have a clutch pedal. The clutch is operated by the computer.
I see. So the age of foot pedal was over! Then what is difference from driving a automatic car? (I know you have to push the button somehow)
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  #9  
Old 11-11-2012, 04:16 AM
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DCT can also select neutral.

The difference is, it is exactly like driving a manual tranny, except, you don't have a clutch pedal. You upshift and downshift when you want. You can hold a gear near red line. YOU need to modulate the throttle for a smooth shift.

Not the same as a manual, but not the same as an automatic.
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2012, 05:35 AM
kisas kisas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
DCT can also select neutral.

The difference is, it is exactly like driving a manual tranny, except, you don't have a clutch pedal. You upshift and downshift when you want. You can hold a gear near red line. YOU need to modulate the throttle for a smooth shift.

Not the same as a manual, but not the same as an automatic.
Do you enjoy as much fun as driving a manual?
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  #11  
Old 11-13-2012, 03:00 AM
Mickey325i Mickey325i is offline
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Ive had my SMG M3 for a few weeks now and really like it. Its a feeling of manual with alittle auto to it I guess you could say. I try to down shift before it does.. I dont like when it down shifts by it self. I thought it was going to be a challenge to learn SMG but after a few days Ive started to listen to and feel the car much like a manual and Im getting the hang of it. The hardest part for me is to remember to set the parking brake when Im done playing. Lazy mans manual but seems to shift gears much faster than I could if I had that extra pedal. Ive had the car at a few shops and a car wash ... its entertaining to see people not knowing SMG - TRY to figure out how to move the car.
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2012, 05:58 AM
kisas kisas is offline
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Originally Posted by Mickey325i View Post
Ive had my SMG M3 for a few weeks now and really like it. Its a feeling of manual with alittle auto to it I guess you could say. I try to down shift before it does.. I dont like when it down shifts by it self. I thought it was going to be a challenge to learn SMG but after a few days Ive started to listen to and feel the car much like a manual and Im getting the hang of it. The hardest part for me is to remember to set the parking brake when Im done playing. Lazy mans manual but seems to shift gears much faster than I could if I had that extra pedal. Ive had the car at a few shops and a car wash ... its entertaining to see people not knowing SMG - TRY to figure out how to move the car.
Thanks!

So your M3 SMG is a dual clutch, right?
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:02 AM
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No, SMG is not duaql clutch. It is single clutch. It is exactly the same flywheel, clutch, rpesure plate, transmission as the manual, just operated by hydraulics and a computer.

SMG in manual mode only downshifts to prevent lugging if you were to step on the gas hard. You should definitely be downshifting before that.
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  #14  
Old 11-21-2012, 12:43 AM
heztheone heztheone is offline
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IMO, nothing beats the feeling of hitting the clutch paddle and shifting from one gear to another, that's why i sold my A/T and bough a ZHP M/T
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  #15  
Old 11-21-2012, 05:43 AM
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An SMG or properly setup DCT is a similar feeling. NOT like driving an automatic with paddles.
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  #16  
Old 12-20-2012, 06:31 PM
pkincy pkincy is offline
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The only thing I can add is do not help the computer by varying the accelerator position during gear changes. The computer does that perfectly well. If you insist on "helping" you are upsetting the carefully calibrated gearshifts.

I cannot prove that this help contributes to SMG pump failure but I feel that is a likely result.

Let the computer do the rpm changes both up and down. Your job is to keep a steady pressure on the accelerator. Whether that is all the way on the floor or simply moderate pressure for a moderate acceleration and moderate gear change.

So far my 2005 M3 with SMG has nary a problem.
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  #17  
Old 12-21-2012, 06:42 AM
lenardbjr lenardbjr is offline
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im a new owner of a e46 m3. I've owned a Camaro SS before and i still like the SMG. You lose being totally connected to the tranny due to the clutch pedal missing but who cares you still get to shift the gear. The first few hours my left foot was hitting the foot rest like it was the clutch!!! So if you still want that clutch feel in between shifts you can still do the left foot action hahahaha. But to be serious it lets you focus on driving and you can keep your hands on the wheel.
-recommend that you make sure you care has the most updated software.
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  #18  
Old 12-21-2012, 06:48 AM
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I disagree, a slight lift when up shifting reduces shock on the entire drive train. The computer does NOT do a perfect job with the thottle on upshifts in all S modes.

And for downshifts, unless you are braking heavy, the system does not rev match, UNLESS you tip in a bit of throttle. The amount is not critical, but if the throttle is off idle on a downshift, you get a great rev match, even with light braking.
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  #19  
Old 12-21-2012, 06:55 AM
lenardbjr lenardbjr is offline
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@pinecone, i have noticed if i simulate driving a manual the "bang" of the tranny does not happen. And your right if you down shift with your foot off the gas then theres no match rev. Not sure how it affects the SMG Pump. But its crazy how so much drama surrounds this one computer controlled pump. I think its too late for bmw to do a recall but it seems like most of the bad pumps have been fixed. I do remember a family member driving my Camaro SS and he was granny shifting and i could hear the tranny "bangin", To be honest i think its hard on the tranny so i lift my foot before i shift.
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  #20  
Old 12-21-2012, 09:00 AM
pkincy pkincy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
I disagree, a slight lift when up shifting reduces shock on the entire drive train. The computer does NOT do a perfect job with the thottle on upshifts in all S modes.

And for downshifts, unless you are braking heavy, the system does not rev match, UNLESS you tip in a bit of throttle. The amount is not critical, but if the throttle is off idle on a downshift, you get a great rev match, even with light braking.
Than we must totally disagree with each other.
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  #21  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:53 PM
MPower72 MPower72 is offline
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SMG does not have a clutch pedal.

It depends but in my opinion driving am manual m3 much more better than a smg m3.
Here in Istanbul if you buy a new m3 from dealer, SMG is expensive and extra but if you buy used, manual m3 is expensive then SMG m3.
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  #22  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:32 PM
lenardbjr lenardbjr is offline
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drive both and then you can judge.
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  #23  
Old 04-26-2013, 01:36 PM
Cavi Mike Cavi Mike is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
No, SMG is not duaql clutch. It is single clutch. It is exactly the same flywheel, clutch, rpesure plate, transmission as the manual, just operated by hydraulics and a computer.
Wait, what? Is it really the same transmission? I've been in the market for an E46 M3 for a while but I've been avoiding the SMG like the plague. So what you're telling me is that all I need to do to convert this to a proper manual is get the fiddly bits like pedals, master/slave cylinders, shifter, etc but I don't need a transmission as well? If that's the case, you just opened up a lot of options to me.
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  #24  
Old 04-27-2013, 02:36 AM
m5time m5time is offline
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Picture evidence. No clutch pedal (this is my own car - no picture manipulation)



Yes, the transmission is the same. But instead of you controlling the clutch, the computer is doing it. In terms of comfort, it is NOT doing a good job. But in hard-core driving it really helps as you can keep both hands on steering wheel.

I am not an expert in SMG technology, nor am I a racing driver, but I did write a report on how it feels to drive a car with SMG. You can find it here (see Chapter 3)

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=597491

Hope this helps.

Anssi
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  #25  
Old 04-27-2013, 03:55 AM
Cavi Mike Cavi Mike is online now
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What exactly do you consider "hard-core driving?" Because I'll tell you what, when I'm hard-core driving, I need control of my clutch. And gear flaps on the steering wheel are usually on the opposite side of the wheel when I need to shift.

I'm not sure why everyone with an SMG always need to try to convince me it's better. It's like they're really trying to convince themselves.
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Last edited by Cavi Mike; 04-27-2013 at 03:56 AM.
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