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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #401  
Old 11-14-2012, 07:37 AM
douggie douggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Think of it this way, when you are riding a 21 speed bike and you are on the 21th speed, how long does it take you to down shift to 3rd gear. Yes, I agree with you that the software can be more agressive, but thats what the sport mode is for, it keep the tranny in a lower gear and has a different throttle map, much like your sprint booster.
I think the hardware is fine. If it isn't, no amount of sport mode can help. The normal mode programming just sucks, and that is the root cause for all of us that is having these lags.

I just hope BMW realizes that the issue is still not resolved and will release software updates for our 2011 builds. Seems they have solved the issues in the 2013 models (from previous posts in this thread).
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  #402  
Old 11-14-2012, 08:01 AM
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bighungry618 bighungry618 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douggie View Post
I think the hardware is fine. If it isn't, no amount of sport mode can help. The normal mode programming just sucks, and that is the root cause for all of us that is having these lags.

I just hope BMW realizes that the issue is still not resolved and will release software updates for our 2011 builds. Seems they have solved the issues in the 2013 models (from previous posts in this thread).
I agree, to a certain extent.

Update: Just picked up my car from service yesterday and it drives much better it terms of lag and acceleration smoothness and I’m quite happy with how it turned out.

Here are the issues that bother me though, As said before, from the time I got the car until now, I thought the acceleration and shifting characteristics were normal. It turns out during service that the Mass Airflow Sensor had permanently failed. It has been replaced and while there picking up the car I was told by my SA that the car was “reprogrammed” as well. But I could find no reference to reprogramming on the service invoice.


Either way; the acceleration lag is gone, the car drives like the loaner did, and I’m left with even more questions. Since I got the car (5 miles on it), it has always driven the same, in other words I can’t remember a time before this service visit where I noticed a change in its drivability.

Is it possible that the sensor was bad from the very beginning… in a brand new car?
Is it possible that the car was actually reprogrammed during service? (it did take a few days to get it back)
Is it possible that the Airflow sensor was indeed responsible for the lag?
Is it possible that this is my imagination?

I have attached the service invoice so that all may see exactly what (they told me) was done.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BMW Service Invoice.pdf (1.74 MB, 208 views)
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  #403  
Old 11-14-2012, 10:14 AM
Sharbotcom Sharbotcom is offline
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Well, I got my baby back after having the "global update" performed and I must say there is big difference in how she runs. The hesitation is gone (responds like the JB3 does) when in non-sport mode and she seems to have more spring in her step. I'm going to run her JB3 free for a few days just to get the "real" feel of her running bareback again. I was depressed last week before the global update as she was a bit sluggish and hesitated at times (especially when compared to having the JB3 on her). It will be interstiing to see/feel the difference when I slip the JB3 back on her. But I must say guys, the update does make her feel better. I know some have complained that right after the update the hesitation, etc. was gone but after time it has reappeared. I won't go too long before I put the JB3 back on so I doubt I'll experience the return of the hesitation (if indeed it were to return).

I've attached the work order for reference to the SIB.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 131242.PDF (156.5 KB, 187 views)
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  #404  
Old 11-14-2012, 11:20 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharbotcom View Post
Well, I got my baby back after having the "global update" performed and I must say there is big difference in how she runs. The hesitation is gone (responds like the JB3 does) when in non-sport mode and she seems to have more spring in her step. I'm going to run her JB3 free for a few days just to get the "real" feel of her running bareback again. I was depressed last week before the global update as she was a bit sluggish and hesitated at times (especially when compared to having the JB3 on her). It will be interstiing to see/feel the difference when I slip the JB3 back on her. But I must say guys, the update does make her feel better. I know some have complained that right after the update the hesitation, etc. was gone but after time it has reappeared. I won't go too long before I put the JB3 back on so I doubt I'll experience the return of the hesitation (if indeed it were to return).

I've attached the work order for reference to the SIB.
Any chance you might do a dyno before and after so we can see what it really adds?
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  #405  
Old 11-14-2012, 06:55 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharbotcom View Post
Well, I got my baby back after having the "global update" performed and I must say there is big difference in how she runs. The hesitation is gone (responds like the JB3 does) when in non-sport mode and she seems to have more spring in her step. I'm going to run her JB3 free for a few days just to get the "real" feel of her running bareback again. I was depressed last week before the global update as she was a bit sluggish and hesitated at times (especially when compared to having the JB3 on her). It will be interstiing to see/feel the difference when I slip the JB3 back on her. But I must say guys, the update does make her feel better. I know some have complained that right after the update the hesitation, etc. was gone but after time it has reappeared. I won't go too long before I put the JB3 back on so I doubt I'll experience the return of the hesitation (if indeed it were to return).

I've attached the work order for reference to the SIB.
Are you going to update to the JB4 Stage 1...likely a harness update? I can tell you that the JB4 I have added is fantastic from every perspective. Thanks for the tip.
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  #406  
Old 11-14-2012, 07:55 PM
Sharbotcom Sharbotcom is offline
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I probably will go from stage 1 to stage 2 (JB3->JB4) but probably not until the spring.
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  #407  
Old 11-14-2012, 08:01 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sharbotcom View Post
I probably will go from stage 1 to stage 2 (JB3->JB4) but probably not until the spring.
I'm thinking about it too. Would like a little more functionality in the Stage 2 tune. The Stage 1 is great though.
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  #408  
Old 11-14-2012, 08:26 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Originally Posted by bighungry618 View Post
I agree, to a certain extent.

Update: Just picked up my car from service yesterday and it drives much better it terms of lag and acceleration smoothness and I’m quite happy with how it turned out.

Here are the issues that bother me though, As said before, from the time I got the car until now, I thought the acceleration and shifting characteristics were normal. It turns out during service that the Mass Airflow Sensor had permanently failed. It has been replaced and while there picking up the car I was told by my SA that the car was “reprogrammed” as well. But I could find no reference to reprogramming on the service invoice.


Either way; the acceleration lag is gone, the car drives like the loaner did, and I’m left with even more questions. Since I got the car (5 miles on it), it has always driven the same, in other words I can’t remember a time before this service visit where I noticed a change in its drivability.

Is it possible that the sensor was bad from the very beginning… in a brand new car?
Is it possible that the car was actually reprogrammed during service? (it did take a few days to get it back)
Is it possible that the Airflow sensor was indeed responsible for the lag?
Is it possible that this is my imagination?

I have attached the service invoice so that all may see exactly what (they told me) was done.
Yes, I'm afraid that there are lots of people think that their cars are fine. Well, I guess if there's no comparison, it's hard to know what we're missing.

Regarding your questions, I'm puzzled too. It doesn't make much sense that you are able to drive with a bad airflow sensor since day 1. I'd imagine the engine would either run rough or that your gas mileage would be bad. But again, I'm sure they do not fix things that ain't broke either.

Well, keep driving it for a few weeks and see if the lag returns.
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  #409  
Old 11-15-2012, 08:32 AM
The X Men The X Men is online now
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One other thing I have notice is that the transmission tends to lag more or accelarate with more of a jerk from a stop while it is cold, when its warm up, it smooth out quite a bit.
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  #410  
Old 11-16-2012, 05:40 AM
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bighungry618 bighungry618 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douggie View Post
Yes, I'm afraid that there are lots of people think that their cars are fine. Well, I guess if there's no comparison, it's hard to know what we're missing.

Regarding your questions, I'm puzzled too. It doesn't make much sense that you are able to drive with a bad airflow sensor since day 1. I'd imagine the engine would either run rough or that your gas mileage would be bad. But again, I'm sure they do not fix things that ain't broke either.

Well, keep driving it for a few weeks and see if the lag returns.
Before the service visit;
The car did idle roughly, the gas mileage was never better than 18.7, and the breaks squealed relentlessly since day one, at that time I was told, "its just because they're new"

Im not sure trust anything I hear now......sigh
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  #411  
Old 11-16-2012, 10:50 AM
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BigDeep1 BigDeep1 is offline
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My late build 2011 drives pretty smooth with no tip-in after the update (you can search for my feedback on this thread). I do experience the tip-in issue again when the car is in "DS"

I will post my question on the JB4 vs the JB3 on that other thread you guys were on.
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  #412  
Old 11-21-2012, 06:51 PM
mrbombastic mrbombastic is offline
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Anyone that got a software update for Accleration problem, noticed that default start mode is now COMFORT, before my update it was ECO, any body else notice this after this fix ? BMW Service also did AUTO STOP to last position, so I dont know.

Last edited by mrbombastic; 11-21-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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  #413  
Old 11-21-2012, 07:13 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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I think mine was always comfort but I have a 2012.
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  #414  
Old 12-03-2012, 01:59 PM
snj1013 snj1013 is offline
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My car has the throttle delay and is due for maintenance. What is the latest and greatest as far as Software Updates. I thought I remember reading that a new update was due in December.
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  #415  
Old 12-14-2012, 05:50 PM
Nick37 Nick37 is offline
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Problem solved!

I just want to say THANKS for that information. I told my dealer about this information, and they were able to update the software on my car. It drives completely different now. I also had to wait 2 days, as far as I can tell so far it was worth the wait.
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  #416  
Old 03-14-2013, 12:03 PM
tchen811 tchen811 is offline
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Does anyone know if the new 2013 built in Jan 2013 have this issue? Or have they applied the patch already?
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  #417  
Old 03-14-2013, 01:27 PM
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I have a Jan 2013 build 550i xDrive M Sport w/ DHP and ~1,200 miles on the odometer.

Zero tip in. Operates how you would expect.
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  #418  
Old 03-14-2013, 01:40 PM
tchen811 tchen811 is offline
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Thanks!
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  #419  
Old 03-14-2013, 02:18 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Get the sport auto trans and you won't have issues.

Get the standard automatic and not guaranteed so much.

I just drove a 2013 with the non-sport auto and it had the issue.
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  #420  
Old 03-14-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Get the sport auto trans and you won't have issues.

Get the standard automatic and not guaranteed so much.

I just drove a 2013 with the non-sport auto and it had the issue.
Yes, I should have added that my car *does* have the sport auto trans (you have to select it apart from selecting M sport), so decaf is likely correct if he test drove a Jan without sport auto trans.
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  #421  
Old 08-06-2014, 04:41 PM
mldbayern mldbayern is offline
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Wow. I'm truly amazed at how accepting folks appear to be about this issue, while others have sued BMW outright. In my 46 years of life - new / used cars alike -I've never had one that hesitated / delayed like the one car I spent the most money on, is way more high end than those before it, and was the one - among all - in which I rightfully had such high expectations. The tip in issue that's apparently plagued BMW's for years now, is a safety issue, period. Yes, BMW drivers get used to it, adjust, switch to sport mode, etc... but that is not why sport mode was created, nor is it a solution for an automatic car. If it was their intent, you can be sure they would not be on top of fixes for the past 3-4+ years or more. For those that may still follow this thread, or come back to it at some point... I just took my 2011 528i (garage kept and barely 25k miles) into the shop because the AC was no longer producing cold air. They found a leak in the evaporator. While there, I asked - as I have in past visits and visit specifically to address the tip in issue - that they revisit the integration software to ensure I have the most current 'fix'. Upon updating my vehicle with F010-14-03-503, my car drove the worst it ever has, on the ride home from the dealership, and the most shocking was that the same hesitation and delay is now occurring in SPORT MODE AS WELL! I called them immediately, enraged and requesting a call from the service manager who waited more than 24 hours to return my call. He only called me back after I left a vm for my service coordinator, indicating the issue seems to be slightly better than it was on my drive home. So, guess what the service manager says when he calls me? >>> The car is learning how I drive, and adjusting accordingly. How clever. Has anyone heard of this? Is this what they say when you a customer says they've noticed slight improvement, or is this really possible? Regardless, I will now devote my time and attention to successful suits filed. Unlike - perhaps - most BMW owners, I don't have $50-$60k to lay down on a car that runs worse than a $30k car. BMW needs to address this with those affected, in a way that says we screwed up and we know it, and we're doing something about besides a software patch! When I asked why they haven't done so, the service manager said because not all BMW owners were affected... not all make and models, etc. Well, I'm certain they know or could easily ascertain through vehicle / purchase records, and that's also part of the point / process of a recall. Simply astounded that BMW purchasers are not requesting, expecting and demanding more of this company. Accountability... standing behind product issues is important. Please contact me if you're aware of any legal approaches surrounding this issue, as that is my next step. My dealer ignored me, then acted like they didn't know what I was talking about, then acted like I was crazy and all the while they knew EXACTLY what i was saying was accurate.

Last edited by mldbayern; 08-06-2014 at 04:42 PM.
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  #422  
Old 08-06-2014, 05:22 PM
Quintus Quintus is offline
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Wow! What a rant! Save yourself the trouble of a lawsuit. Sell the car you don't like. Bite the bullet on the depreciation and buy yourself another car. Life's too short for a long and painful lawsuit that is going to cost you more time, money and energy than it is worth.


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  #423  
Old 08-06-2014, 06:13 PM
ImolaRedM ImolaRedM is offline
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I've seen the 'tip in' problem in many other cars with auto transmissions. It seems worse in some more than others. I've had the same issue in a ZF Auto in my 1999 Land Rover (problem would temporarily go away when you reset the adaptive drive or used "S" mode - sound familiar?), it was a problem in my wife's Toyota, it's noticeable to some extent in most rentals that I've been in. I've always chalked it up to the adaptive transmissions that have been around for over a decade. Engines with less power made the problem less noticeable. However, it has been one of the many reasons I prefer to row my own gears.
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  #424  
Old 08-06-2014, 08:09 PM
mldbayern mldbayern is offline
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Quintus - Wasn't asking for an opinion on what I should do, and am entitled to rant. Consider offering valuable information to a post on a forum, that exists precisely for that reason, verses inflicting 'your' opinion of what another finds upsetting and/or offering unsolicited advice.

ImolaREdm - Thanks for sharing useful information. Had no idea this issue exists in vehicles from other auto makers. Before buying my BMW, I purchased 3 used Land Rovers through the years, and - fortunately - never experienced anything remotely similar. They had small oil leaks and - at times - other minor issues, but actual drive performance was always great (which, thereagain, I would expect from any high end car manufacturer).
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  #425  
Old 08-06-2014, 10:49 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mldbayern View Post
ImolaREdm - Thanks for sharing useful information. Had no idea this issue exists in vehicles from other auto makers. Before buying my BMW, I purchased 3 used Land Rovers through the years, and - fortunately - never experienced anything remotely similar. They had small oil leaks and - at times - other minor issues, but actual drive performance was always great (which, thereagain, I would expect from any high end car manufacturer).
Same here. I didn't know cars can have such serious throttle delays until I bought my 2011 F10. My wife's X1 and my parents Mercedes (S and C) did does not exhibit anything close to this. I've done the software upgrade and it is somewhat better now. But the other day, a serious delay happened out of the blue again. I tried to blip the throttle to change lanes and the car did not respond. Then I floored the pedal. Nope. No response at all. I was mad and I stomped the pedal quickly two more times. Nothing again. Finally, the 3rd time, the engine responded.

It is unfortunate that this will not be fixed in our early build F10s until some one gets injured with proper documented material that links the accident with the throttle delay.

I guess what Quintus said is true. It might be best just to sell it and get an LCI (I assume they have fixed the issue in the LCIs)
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