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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #1  
Old 11-12-2012, 09:08 AM
rsbolin@me.com rsbolin@me.com is offline
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Mein Auto: 2004 760i
2004 760i. Stalling, Humming Sounds

I purchased this car from a dealer in Houston after running CarFax, AutoCheck, and a National VIN search. The 760 was shipped to me this past Monday and received Wednesday evening. I have driven the car less than 50 miles since it was pulled off of the delivery truck. Mileage is now at 86,000.

The car ran great the first night I owned it and I drove it about 6 miles just to make a test. Next morning while making a right turn in a parking lot the car stalled. I was able to immediately restart the engine. I drove 6.5 miles to my home immediately after this event and while idling the car in my driveway it died again. I restarted and it idled cleaning for a long time. I made a late afternoon run to the US Post Office without a problem. I followed that by driving 2 miles to fill the fuel tank without any stalling issue. I have driven 19 miles since this fill up.

Last evening, day three of ownership, while driving to dinner the car tried to stall again, idle surged, dropped back down to normal, I proceeded. Few minutes later car tried to stall again, idle surged, and this time the check engine light came on and has stayed on.

I got on this forum to look for similar occurrences and found this thread:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...629&highlight=


I have a local mechanic that does the work on all of my vehicles. I have owned a 528, 733, Z3 2.8, Z4, and a 750iL. I have familiarity with the BMW brand and believe they are the best vehicles to own.

What is the best course of action here? I had a 750iL for 7 years and never had a problem with it. I expected a newer V12 to be at least as reliable as my old one.
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  #2  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:05 AM
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vsapra vsapra is offline
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Maybe it has to do with the fuel delivery system? There are two high pressure fuel pumps on the V12 - which others have had problems with. How much fuel was in the tank the first time?

Also - carbon buildup is notorious - For the last 3-4 years, I've been using Chevron Techron Fuel System cleaner (available at the BMW dealership) , every 5000 - 7500 miles and that keeps my V12 running smooth.

Others may want to chime in too.

V.
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  #3  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:09 AM
rsbolin@me.com rsbolin@me.com is offline
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Low fuel light came on almost as soon as I took delivery. I drive it about 1.5 miles to put fuel in it to just over a 1/4 tank. The next day I fueled up with supreme unleaded.

I thought about getting the Chevron additive at Costco yesterday but thought I should wait until the service center gives me an update on what could be wrong.

I do not expect HPFP but I do expect the Mann fuel filter and the fuel pump with regulator to be replaced. I hope that fixes the problem.
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  #4  
Old 11-12-2012, 12:28 PM
new760Liowner new760Liowner is offline
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First thing would be to get the cause of the check engine light. You can get the OBD2 codes or, as most members here have, is a cheap laptop with INPA installed and a diagnostic cable.

When I put my intake manifold back on after decarboning the intake valves a couple months back, I had a hard time starting the car back up since I had opened the butterfly valves on the throttle bodies. I ended up resetting the throttle bodies with the pedal procedure and it started back up, a little lumpy at first, but it smoothed out; might be a quick fix to your issue.

If I were you, I'd also get a look at the intake valves to see how bad they have carboned up. The direct injection on the N73 is different than the port fuel injection on the M73 which may be contributing to your idle issues by leaving PCV deposits on the back of the intake valves. Does the car stall only at idle or during 2000 RPM+ driving?

Last edited by new760Liowner; 11-12-2012 at 12:30 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-12-2012, 03:40 PM
rsbolin@me.com rsbolin@me.com is offline
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Does not seem to matter if I am sitting at idle in my drive way, or moving at a steady clip down the highway. This evening it stalled at a stop sign. I restarted and went straight to my mechanic. It tried to stall at 35 MPH on the way there but I was able to keep it going.

One thing I noticed with the hood raised that if I rev the engine I hear a lot of air suction going on. My last 750iL with the 12 cylinder never made a sound regardless of idle or going down the highway.

Thanks to everyone that is offering an opinion as to what the cause may be. We are a united group I have to say.

Ron
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  #6  
Old 11-12-2012, 05:38 PM
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ndabunka ndabunka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbolin@me.com View Post
What is the best course of action here? I had a 750iL for 7 years and never had a problem with it. I expected a newer V12 to be at least as reliable as my old one.
Was this your first (or last) error?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbolin@me.com View Post
One thing I noticed with the hood raised that if I rev the engine I hear a lot of air suction going on. My last 750iL with the 12 cylinder never made a sound regardless of idle or going down the highway.
750Li's were 8-cylinders, not 12. They also were not turbo's so.....

You really Do need to search around on here and you will find a number of similar issues (car dying in turns) on both the 750's & 760's. It's not common but the repairs can be VERY costly.
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Last edited by ndabunka; 11-12-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2012, 04:10 AM
rsbolin@me.com rsbolin@me.com is offline
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Okay, I owned a 1998 BMW 750iL with a 12 cylinder engine. I did not mention an 8 cylinder or a turbo. I owned the car for over 6 years so I know what was under the hood.

Please try to be considerate with your comments trying to make other members of the forum not look like they know what they owned.
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2012, 04:46 AM
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hd750Li hd750Li is offline
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I agree with vsapra, it might have something to do with the fuel system. I had this happened before....replaced the fuel filter then the issue has gone since. Here are the part numbers:

Fuel Filter: 16126750475 $74.28
Fuel Filter Hose Clam: 07129952104

The replace procedure is fairly easy...it's right underneath the driver side. Just take the plastic cover off then you should see it.
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2012, 04:51 AM
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hd750Li hd750Li is offline
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Here is the video showing how to replace the fuel filter: http://www.mototestdrive.com/video/gaw5010KPtU

Also, clean your MAF sensor. See this thread: http://www.bimmerfeww.bimmerfest.com....php?p=6916321
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  #10  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:19 AM
rsbolin@me.com rsbolin@me.com is offline
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You guys are great. I appreciate all of the advice and the video. I am traveling the next few days and will let you know what is found.
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  #11  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:15 AM
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SuperSnoop SuperSnoop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
750Li's were 8-cylinders, not 12. They also were not turbo's so.....
While that is perfectly factual, it's irrelevant. He mentioned his 750iL, not 750Li. the 750iL would be an E32 or E38. The 740iL was a V8, but the 750iL was indeed a V12.
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:08 AM
new760Liowner new760Liowner is offline
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Maybe the PCV valves on the intake manifold have given up. Does the car ever stall out when cold, before it has gone into closed-loop mode? If it was a vacuum leak leading to a lean condition, my guess is the car stalls when warmed up or when the car goes into closed loop mode. In closed loop, a vacuum leak will lean out the engine whereas in open-loop, the extra air may be balanced out with the extra fuel.
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:55 AM
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alpinaman24 alpinaman24 is offline
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look into the pillar modules to see any history fault codes ..

pillar sensors will send a bad signal to fuel pump if it thinks it crashed hope thats understandable

crank sensor .. ive had a customer complaints "i was on freeway car just died .. waited 10 mins car started up and drove fine the rest of day" changed crank sensor solved his problem ..

could also be a software glitch where the computer forgets or doesnt see a specific signal and wants to die ..

i had 750's with bad throttle modules e38 offcourse
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2012, 05:03 PM
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MOPAULY MOPAULY is offline
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Def replace fuel filter if you can't prove it's been done already.
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:52 PM
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ndabunka ndabunka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbolin@me.com View Post
Okay, I owned a 1998 BMW 750iL with a 12 cylinder engine. I did not mention an 8 cylinder or a turbo. I owned the car for over 6 years so I know what was under the hood.

Please try to be considerate with your comments trying to make other members of the forum not look like they know what they owned.
Sorry, did not catch the iL portion (e38) of your post. Regardless, there are a number of threads on similar issues on this forum. Here are two threads I found by simply running a very basic search using only the word "corner". Run another with Dying and other verbs that match your symptoms and you might be surprised to discover how many others have had a similar issue.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ghlight=corner
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ghlight=corner
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'11 Victory Ness Cross Country!!!
GONE - '06 750Li Sapphire Black/Creme&Black (Loadeddddd)

Last edited by ndabunka; 11-13-2012 at 08:59 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2012, 04:18 AM
SteweD SteweD is offline
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Err... Am I missing the obvious here....??
You bought the car from the dealer and it isn't working within only 50 miles of driving...!

Give them a ring, it's their problem surely ?? I wouldn't be throwing a single penny at it.
Tell them to sort it....it's not as if you've bought an old banger for a few pounds/dollars !!
The car is supposed to be the finest car ever produced. ?!@!
Sorry ?!
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2012, 12:10 PM
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vsapra vsapra is offline
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true dat - what kind of dealer sells you a car with fumes in the tank?
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2012, 01:58 PM
mokh mokh is offline
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hey...

i had the same problem a while back. car dies sometimes but not always. sometimes i could keep it alive by pressing the pedal to the meta. but ur issue seems very similar to what i as going through. ca runs perfect al high rpms (3000 and above) but its at a risk of dying if the rpms.drop below 2000. i went thru hell before it finally threw a code. turned out to be a faulty MAF. replaced that and everything was fine. keep in mind though, i have the 740i v8 version i.e. the n62 so ir problem might be different. but the symptoms u described are VERY close to mine.

Sent from my hGT-P6800 using Bimmer App

Last edited by mokh; 11-14-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-22-2012, 05:35 AM
rsbolin@me.com rsbolin@me.com is offline
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Update on Engine Stalling

Contacted the dealer as recommended. They are in Houston, TX so working this out remotely.

As I mentioned before, the car check engine light a came on, P028, which I am told relates to the thermostat. Anyone have this code that can lend some insight?

I had both of the fuel filters replaced and the fuel pump replaced. I did this as a precaution and to help isolate to whether the problem is the HPFP. $1K spent on this service alone and the diagnostics:
-Diagnosis of check engine light
-BMW fuel filter
-BMW inline fuel filter
-BMW fuel pump.


Drive home from the service, cars tries to stall. I am presuming that this isolates to the HPFP's.



As with my previous posts, we are all here for advice and recommendations to our wonderful BMW driving experience. Please focus on assistance for the issue presented and not the costs even though it is excessive.

Ron
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2012, 08:41 AM
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hd750Li hd750Li is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbolin@me.com View Post
I am presuming that this isolates to the HPFP's.
Have you tried to clean the MAF?...very easy to do. It takes two minutes.

If that doesn't help either, then it's high possibility that HPFP - one or both - failed.
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  #21  
Old 11-22-2012, 06:58 PM
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MOPAULY MOPAULY is offline
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I suppose you could drive the car around with a laptop an INPA running to monitor. Does the fuel pump make any weird noises? When the pump started to go in my Dodge it started sounding different pitch wise. If you are stalling I'd also expect occasional hard starts if it is the pump.
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  #22  
Old 11-29-2012, 10:47 AM
rsbolin@me.com rsbolin@me.com is offline
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Smile

Update.

Drove the car home from service it stalled upon start up. Started, idle surged, dropped, then stalled. Started again, idled fine. drove home. Noticed idle surge and drop.

I am still working with the dealer in Houston to resolve and get satisfaction. I have now put ~80 miles on the car since it was delivered.

In addition to the previous service completed last week:

-BMW fuel filter
-BMW inline fuel filter
-BMW fuel pump.

Yesterday I had a MotorVac CarbonClean Service performed. Just as another option to continue to isolate the issue.

I went ahead and had the thermostat replaced. I cannot hold that against the dealer.

Had the a computer scan done on the HPFP's. Reading at ~400-450 PSI on each. Should be 1,740, or 120 bar.

Notified the dealer that we needed to focus on the HPFP's. No response from dealer.

I will check some of the other items: fuel pressure sensor, crank sensor, etc.

Everyone please continue to provide input. It is greatly appreciated.
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  #23  
Old 12-02-2012, 06:53 AM
rsbolin@me.com rsbolin@me.com is offline
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Another update for you.

Drove the car 2.5 miles to FiveGuys for lunch. Before going I let the car idle for ~15 minutes. Drive to FiveGuys was fine. Drove 1/4 mile to AutoZone to a Parking Lamp Amber light bulb. Got in car to drive home. Stalled coming out of AutoZone. Restarted, made it 30 yards. Car stalled and died. Restarted, drove home through back neighborhoods to keep speed down and to pay closer attention to sounds coming from the engine bay. Idle surge and drop the 2.5 miles home.

Noticed yesterday when I started the car the smell of rotten eggs. Reminded me of the smell of a bad catalytic converter.

Can anyone provide the part number for the Crank Shaft Speed Sensor and the Integrated Power Supply Module for a 2004 E65 760i? Both are mentioned in other threads to be checked and correcting similar stall and stop issues.
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  #24  
Old 12-02-2012, 07:33 AM
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MOPAULY MOPAULY is offline
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Wow...pretty nuts. Hope you get it figured out!
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  #25  
Old 12-02-2012, 01:09 PM
new760Liowner new760Liowner is offline
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Have you scanned the car yourself with INPA? I'm sure the dealers are looking out for your best interest , but if it were me, I'd like to see the errors myself.

Also, if the 400-450 psi value is correct, the HPFPs are partially working as the level is higher than supplied by the fuel pump in the fuel tank. Unfortunately, if the pressure in the fuel line doesn't exceed the pressure in the combustion chamber, the fuel won't get through the injector. Like you said, I think the problem lies with the output level of the HPFPs.

How did you come by the 400-450 psi readout on the fuel rail? Is there a hidden menu that
displays that? If so, maybe some of us with 760s can report back with our values.

Also, did the carbon cleaning service providers take any pictures or tell you of the condition of your intake valves prior to cleaning?
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