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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 05-08-2012, 12:28 PM
tdd tdd is offline
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Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
Totally stupid technique....doing that puts FAR more strain on all driveline components compared to just using the brakes. I hope you have lots of money for future repairs....
I could jump in here and say something like "Well, I've been downshifting with my step for 10 years and haven't had a lick of trouble". But I won't 'cause I know my car is listening.
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  #27  
Old 05-09-2012, 12:25 AM
TerraPhantm TerraPhantm is offline
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Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
Totally stupid technique....doing that puts FAR more strain on all driveline components compared to just using the brakes. I hope you have lots of money for future repairs....
As long as the shifts are done properly (which I imagine they would be in an auto), I can't see how there'd be any noticeable wear. All the gears are spinning together regardless of the gear you have selected. There might be slightly more wear on the engine, but the motor will outlast the rest of the car anyway
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  #28  
Old 05-09-2012, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
As long as the shifts are done properly (which I imagine they would be in an auto), I can't see how there'd be any noticeable wear. All the gears are spinning together regardless of the gear you have selected. There might be slightly more wear on the engine, but the motor will outlast the rest of the car anyway
I usually agree with you, but not on this issue....downshifting (on a routine basis) for the sole purpose of using compression-braking to slow the car down (UNLESS you`re descending a mountain road, as mentioned previously) is counterproductive and juvenile....it imparts unnecessary stress on all driveline components, as well as the engine.
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  #29  
Old 05-09-2012, 10:00 AM
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Brucifer325 Brucifer325 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
I usually agree with you, but not on this issue....downshifting (on a routine basis) for the sole purpose of using compression-braking to slow the car down (UNLESS you`re descending a mountain road, as mentioned previously) is counterproductive and juvenile....it imparts unnecessary stress on all driveline components, as well as the engine.
+1

My left leg twitches when I am coming into a cloverleaf off the freeway, but I know that I have an automatic and I leave it to the car to do all the work. If I feel the urge to shift is becoming too great, I will get a car with a clutch.

Your car would probably handle driving on a gravel road at high speed, but it won't be happy after repeated running, so why make it do things that it wasn't designed to do?
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  #30  
Old 05-09-2012, 07:11 PM
6sleight6 6sleight6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
I usually agree with you, but not on this issue....downshifting (on a routine basis) for the sole purpose of using compression-braking to slow the car down (UNLESS you`re descending a mountain road, as mentioned previously) is counterproductive and juvenile....it imparts unnecessary stress on all driveline components, as well as the engine.
I have the auto step, I pop it from Auto to Manual but don't actively shift. All this does is take away overdrive and allows the transmission to auto shift in manual mode without the higher gear no? Effectively it just downshifts earlier than it would in full auto?
Is this bad on the transmission?
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  #31  
Old 05-09-2012, 07:39 PM
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Rocky_Charles4 Rocky_Charles4 is offline
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When using steptronic in M mode I press the brake to slow me down and after i see the rpm meter down to 2500 I shift down. But I'm not gonna lie I sometimes shift down purposely to get a quick boost if i wanna past traffic.

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  #32  
Old 05-09-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6sleight6 View Post
I have the auto step, I pop it from Auto to Manual but don't actively shift. All this does is take away overdrive and allows the transmission to auto shift in manual mode without the higher gear no? Effectively it just downshifts earlier than it would in full auto?
Is this bad on the transmission?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky_Charles4 View Post
When using steptronic in M mode I press the brake to slow me down and after i see the rpm meter down to 2500 I shift down. But I'm not gonna lie I sometimes shift down purposely to get a quick boost if i wanna past traffic.

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You guys need manual transmissions...seriously....
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  #33  
Old 05-09-2012, 08:49 PM
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Rocky_Charles4 Rocky_Charles4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
You guys need manual transmissions...seriously....
I know, I'm regreting not getting one... Well slightly. But from time to time you have to admit... Its a pretty fun toy lol

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  #34  
Old 05-09-2012, 09:54 PM
TerraPhantm TerraPhantm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
I usually agree with you, but not on this issue....downshifting (on a routine basis) for the sole purpose of using compression-braking to slow the car down (UNLESS you`re descending a mountain road, as mentioned previously) is counterproductive and juvenile....it imparts unnecessary stress on all driveline components, as well as the engine.
Explain to me where the damage would come from on a properly executed downshift (no sudden shocks). And how would the engine wear be any worse (except for the very mild wear due to increased revs)? Regardless of whether you're in 6th gear or 2nd, the engine's being forced to work against vacuum when your foot's off the gas. In fact, it's the higher gears that may technically be more damaging because there's more force being exerted upon the engine.

Heck, even with a manual, downshifting shouldn't pose any major issues as long as the shifts are properly downshifted. There may be some synchro wear, but not really enough to cause an early transmission failure.
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  #35  
Old 05-09-2012, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
Explain to me where the damage would come from on a properly executed downshift (no sudden shocks). And how would the engine wear be any worse (except for the very mild wear due to increased revs)? Regardless of whether you're in 6th gear or 2nd, the engine's being forced to work against vacuum when your foot's off the gas. In fact, it's the higher gears that may technically be more damaging because there's more force being exerted upon the engine.
I`m assuming that you DID read this comment:

Originally Posted by Fast Bob
I usually agree with you, but not on this issue....downshifting (on a routine basis) for the sole purpose of using compression-braking to slow the car down (UNLESS you`re descending a mountain road, as mentioned previously) is counterproductive and juvenile....it imparts unnecessary stress on all driveline components, as well as the engine.

I think what we need to assume here is that anyone who *routinely* drives like this (downshifting to slow the car down) probably doesn`t know a phucking thing about "a properly-executed downshift", or they wouldn`t be doing it **IN THE FIRST PLACE**.

They are imparting extra wear and tear on the trans (bands, clutch packs, friction surfaces), as well as the entire driveline (giubo, U-joints, driveshaft, diff, half-shafts, etc.), as *the entire weight of the car* is being borne by the driveline, rather than the brakes.

Anyone who does this qualifies as an "Ignoranus" in my book (that`s a person who is both ignorant AND an asshole). So there....
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  #36  
Old 05-09-2012, 10:20 PM
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E39Alan E39Alan is offline
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Is it bad to let off the gas while changing gear for about a second then giving it gas again? I sometimes do it...
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  #37  
Old 05-09-2012, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Smelyalata831 View Post
Is it bad to let off the gas while changing gear for about a second then giving it gas again? I sometimes do it...
No, you`ll still go to Heaven....

(are you defecting from the E39 Forum or something ? )
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  #38  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:18 AM
TerraPhantm TerraPhantm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
I`m assuming that you DID read this comment:

Originally Posted by Fast Bob
I usually agree with you, but not on this issue....downshifting (on a routine basis) for the sole purpose of using compression-braking to slow the car down (UNLESS you`re descending a mountain road, as mentioned previously) is counterproductive and juvenile....it imparts unnecessary stress on all driveline components, as well as the engine.

I think what we need to assume here is that anyone who *routinely* drives like this (downshifting to slow the car down) probably doesn`t know a phucking thing about "a properly-executed downshift", or they wouldn`t be doing it **IN THE FIRST PLACE**.

They are imparting extra wear and tear on the trans (bands, clutch packs, friction surfaces), as well as the entire driveline (giubo, U-joints, driveshaft, diff, half-shafts, etc.), as *the entire weight of the car* is being borne by the driveline, rather than the brakes.

Anyone who does this qualifies as an "Ignoranus" in my book (that`s a person who is both ignorant AND an asshole). So there....
Hmm... that may be the case, but the thing is, the driveline has to deal with a lot more stress when accelerating rapidly than when using compression braking. There's just a lot more torque to deal with when accelerating. If these drivelines couldn't handle compression braking (even at every single stop) they'd fail due to normal acceleration very quickly. Acceleration can generate a few orders of magnitude more torque than compression braking.

Is it a particularly good habit? Perhaps not. But I don't believe it's as dangerous as you make it sound. If it were, BMW wouldn't design the newer automatics to do similar downshifting automatically (it's quite noticeable in DS mode). Clutch braking on the other hand is a terrible "technique" - people who do that realy are ignoranuses

In case you're wondering, I don't typically downshift to slow down. But to be fair in 6th gear this car slows down very quickly after letting off the gas. The ZHP had to be in 4th gear or so to decelerate at a similar rate.
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  #39  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:35 PM
Arod65 Arod65 is offline
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My car responds so much better in manual mode. It has a hesitation in automatic. Will it hur the transmission if I drive it in manual and let the car do the shifting all the time?
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  #40  
Old 11-13-2012, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Arod65 View Post
My car responds so much better in manual mode. It has a hesitation in automatic. Will it hur the transmission if I drive it in manual and let the car do the shifting all the time?
Your car is an E60....this is the E46 Forum....
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  #41  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:42 PM
numindast numindast is offline
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Old(er) thread I know but I wanted to add something I hadn't thought of back in May.

a) The drive line was designed for heavy loads with the energy flowing engine to wheels. Not so much the other way around. Perhaps the extra wear is minimal but bad things can and do happen.
b) Engine braking puts the weight of the car on the driveline. Only one of "those". There are 4 brakes.. so, load divided by 4.
c) When you use engine braking versus the brake pedal, people behind you won't see your brake lights. Accident waiting to happen.

When I first got the car I used engine braking "just because" but it was said that brake parts are cheaper than engine parts (I'm pretty sure Fast Bob said that) and I've not done it since...
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  #42  
Old 11-14-2012, 03:52 PM
joegr joegr is offline
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I'm not going to join the debate on if this is a bad practice or not. Personally, I only downshift to slow down in mountain driving where the brakes might otherwise overheat. I would like to add the following two facts to the discussion.

1. Several newer cars will downshift to maintain correct speed going down a hill if the cruise control is set.

2. Just about all fuel injected gasoline cars from at least the mid 90s on do engine braking almost anytime you lift your foot off the gas pedal (but they don't downshift to do it). All fuel to the engine is shut off (above a certain speed) and the engine is kept turning only by the rotation of the wheels sent back through the transmission. This is done to improve fuel economy.
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  #43  
Old 11-14-2012, 05:29 PM
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halltristan halltristan is offline
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Your car is an E60....this is the E46 Forum....
Hilarious.
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