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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:40 AM
89homewreckr 89homewreckr is offline
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Mein Auto: 525i 1989
525i 1989 gets hotter than satansanus!!

Hello all-- first off : this is a 1989 525i automatic trans. sedan. Tstat is removed. fan clutch replaced hoses replaced( not sure the correct routing for hoses at firewall area) bled bled bled system doesnt prevent overheating.


Can anyone send me pix or diagrams of the 525i hose routing procedure?? and by that I mean EVERY cooling hose and its route direction /attachment seat. Im questioning the lower radiator T hose installation??? as well as the others. Where do the small hoses attach at firewall direction and engine etc.?

I have replaced near everything ! BUT the water pump and the hoses fill with pressure and want to blow after warm up. I dont see oil in the water however I do see the sparkle of what i have confirmed is indication of a past block seal repair/head gasket attempt Blue Devil. So? say, If the HG repair was successful??? why thepressure buildup and immediate overheating issue??? what Can I do Im at the last ditch attempt Saloon here. Thank you

if i leave the radiator res tank cap off , the temp gauge doesnt climb but spits liquid out the top of the radiator cap. If I cap it, it immediately fills with pressure and needle climbs. Is there life with a blown HG? even if the Blue Devil repair has seemingly kept oil out of the water? why is it my engine not cooling? thanku

Last edited by 89homewreckr; 11-02-2012 at 12:37 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:36 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Welcome to the Fest.

Sorry to hear of your troubles. It sounds like your headgasket is bad or the head is cracked, especially given the history you relate. I would recommend you do a compression test before you put more time or money into it. If the HG is blown, you are looking at a pretty high repair bill by a mechanic and a time consuming and somewhat difficult repair (depending on your wrenching skills) if you do it yourself.

If the compression test is okay, and you confirm that there are no combustion products in the coolant (through a chemical test kit that you can buy at most auto parts supply stores), then you can proceed to look into it further (such as removing and inspecting the water pump).

I would like to be optimistic on this, but unfortunately, the story you tell does not paint a very pretty picture.

Good luck.
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1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
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  #3  
Old 11-02-2012, 05:40 PM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Well, if you can see evidence of the material from the past HG repair, it is unfortunately fair to assume that the repair has not held. Perhaps you can google blue devil failed repairs to see if others online who have had the same trouble have observed the same symptoms that you're seeing ?
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  #4  
Old 11-02-2012, 06:08 PM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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www.reloem.com will give you diagrams about the cooling hoses. Furthermore, you could download the E34 Bentley manual (google for the links), which is a great resource to have, to see if it will be useful.

However, if your car only overheats with the cap on and not with the cap off, then there is a good chance that bad hose routing is not the issue involved here.
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  #5  
Old 11-03-2012, 02:11 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Perhaps you should try another bottle. However, its not too cheap at $50-$60. If someone else applied the sealant the first time, he might not have followed the most important instructions for the bottle (a quick casual read online suggests that this is the most common reason why the bottle fails when it does), which seems to be to drain and forward and backflush the cooling system to purge it of all antifreeze and coolant. The fluid appears to require pure water alone to work most effectively. You might have to remove the thermostat first to facilitate this and you'll certainly need a garden hose. Fortunately, you dont have the thermostat in there. A thorough flush would be fairly easy to do. With a thermostat in there, you can never get almost all the old antifreeze out.

HG in bottles have a spurious reputation. However, people like scotty kilmer recommend the product. There may be more to it than meets the eye. Perhaps you could be the test subject for our forums to put this myth to bed once and for all ?

Last edited by robertobaggio20; 11-03-2012 at 02:36 AM.
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  #6  
Old 11-03-2012, 06:53 AM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Here is an opposing viewpoint to Blue Devil HG sealant:



OP needs to be able to review pro and con opinions on the product to make an informed decision.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #7  
Old 11-03-2012, 07:31 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR_LVR View Post
Here is an opposing viewpoint to Blue Devil HG sealant:



OP needs to be able to review pro and con opinions on the product to make an informed decision.


Scary video.

Scotty Kilmer recommends steel seal. And he has a useful perspective here, which might serve our old cars pretty well :


Last edited by robertobaggio20; 11-03-2012 at 07:49 AM.
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  #8  
Old 11-03-2012, 08:00 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Well there are many videos that say that blue devil works, and others that say it doesn't and that this type of product generally won't.

Regardless, I'm beginning to suspect that such products are indeed a useful form of insurance for our older cars.



The OP's issues may be too severe for Blue Devil to help.

Has anyone used this type of product on their vehicle ?
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  #9  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:13 AM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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There is only one scenario in which I would use one of the products:

If I was trying to get the lasp gasp of breath out of the vehicle and I knew that I had no intention of doing the repair and that, if it failed, I would be either parting the vehicle out or junking it.

I personally would not use any of these products in a vehicle that I had a hint of repairing.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #10  
Old 11-03-2012, 11:08 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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I think there's sufficient anecdotal evidence to suggest that its a good idea to use something like this with fresh antifreeze (antifreeze friendly products only, blue devil is not one of those) once every 2-3 years at least as a form of insurance to suppress HG problems, considering that car is so old and assuming that the HG has not been replaced sometime in the past couple of years.

Ideally, regular wear and tear elements of the cooling system such as the wp and thermostat ought to not require replacement in this period, and radiator flushing should be reduced to the same intervals, to prevent loss of the hg solution itself.

Last edited by robertobaggio20; 11-03-2012 at 11:12 AM.
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  #11  
Old 11-03-2012, 08:49 PM
My525iT My525iT is offline
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The only hoses that could be improperly routed would not be the coolant hoses. And the water hoses are highly unlikely to have been replaced.

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/697674/

If you do a compression test and a combustion leak test you can borrow the tools from Autozone. I would do the combustion first as it would indicate the HG issue.

Is your auxiliary fan coming on? Could be a clogged radiator.
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2012, 12:52 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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This is relevant material from the duraseal website, off their FAQ section :

Question: I've read that Heel-a-Se_l, Blu_ Dev_l, The__ma Gask_t, Ir_nTiet, B_r's and all other brands use Sodium Silicate, (water-glass) in their products, is that the stuff that turns to glass?
Answer: That's right, Sodium Silicate, (water-glass) turns to glass when cured! Glass can't expand or contract, so it simply cracks away from the area it's trying to repair. Also, water-glass IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH ANTIFREEZE. That's two reasons Dura-SealŪ does not use Sodium Silicate as our main ingredient. That means our sealer actually stays flexible once cured and can last for years...

Quite clearly, the blue devil anti video posted earlier and the op's experience suggest that, if you wish to use these HG in a bottle products, you should certainly avoid those which containt sodium silicate and the like. A more simple assessment is just to see if the bottle says that it is compatible with your antifreeze. If it is, then it probably does not contain this compound, and does not require that you flush your radiator (which may involve you purchasing flushing products first at an additional cost.

Steel seal and duraseal are in the $90-$100 category for a 6 cylinder vehicle. It is really not cheap, and considering that its reputation is not clearly established and that there are many situations where the problem either cannot be fixed (if its an oil only HG leak) or its too large for something like this to fix, it may be a case of wasting money. That being said, the duraseal website claims to have a hotline staffed by mechanics, so one can always call up and cross examine the heck out of them before purchasing this and other similar products.

Last edited by robertobaggio20; 11-04-2012 at 01:33 AM.
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  #13  
Old 11-04-2012, 07:35 AM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertobaggio20 View Post
This is relevant material from the duraseal website, off their FAQ section :

Question: I've read that Heel-a-Se_l, Blu_ Dev_l, The__ma Gask_t, Ir_nTiet, B_r's and all other brands use Sodium Silicate, (water-glass) in their products, is that the stuff that turns to glass?
Answer: That's right, Sodium Silicate, (water-glass) turns to glass when cured! Glass can't expand or contract, so it simply cracks away from the area it's trying to repair. Also, water-glass IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH ANTIFREEZE. That's two reasons Dura-SealŪ does not use Sodium Silicate as our main ingredient. That means our sealer actually stays flexible once cured and can last for years...

Quite clearly, the blue devil anti video posted earlier and the op's experience suggest that, if you wish to use these HG in a bottle products, you should certainly avoid those which containt sodium silicate and the like. A more simple assessment is just to see if the bottle says that it is compatible with your antifreeze. If it is, then it probably does not contain this compound, and does not require that you flush your radiator (which may involve you purchasing flushing products first at an additional cost.

Steel seal and duraseal are in the $90-$100 category for a 6 cylinder vehicle. It is really not cheap, and considering that its reputation is not clearly established and that there are many situations where the problem either cannot be fixed (if its an oil only HG leak) or its too large for something like this to fix, it may be a case of wasting money. That being said, the duraseal website claims to have a hotline staffed by mechanics, so one can always call up and cross examine the heck out of them before purchasing this and other similar products.

I wonder why you have such an interest in more mechanic in a bottle remedies. Is it just being from a very young, instant gratification, generation?

I know somebody that used blue devil on a Pontiac Aztek. It is holding, more or less, almost a year later. That is a disposable car, when it finally lets go, it will be junked.

I agree with the notion that none of these products would ever find there way into any car I intended to keep, and I would fully disclose the cars condition if I sold it.

These chemicals can not "fix" or prevent a blown headgasket. Suggesting they are good and viable is rediculous. Maybe viable for scoundrels looking to bail on a car they broke but, not for me, thanks.
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  #14  
Old 11-07-2012, 06:43 AM
89homewreckr 89homewreckr is offline
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Yeah I feel the same way. I have been okee doked by some scoundrel who sold it to me. I will keep posts of the HG progress here as well. BUT COULD anyone show me a pic of the lower radiator T-hose and where it routes to? what hose connects into the rear engine pipe on passenger side? its a smaller in diameter hose coming off the bottom of radiator --a heater hose---- would that not be directed to a heater connection before the engine pipe? water shoulnt be circulating directly from the lower hose into the rear of engine right? help thanku not even sure if that t-hose IS the correct hose to use because when I look up replacement parts for 89 525i lower rad hose---its not showing a T-hose (3way)

Last edited by 89homewreckr; 11-07-2012 at 06:45 AM.
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  #15  
Old 11-07-2012, 07:35 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89homewreckr View Post
Yeah I feel the same way. I have been okee doked by some scoundrel who sold it to me. I will keep posts of the HG progress here as well. BUT COULD anyone show me a pic of the lower radiator T-hose and where it routes to? what hose connects into the rear engine pipe on passenger side? its a smaller in diameter hose coming off the bottom of radiator --a heater hose---- would that not be directed to a heater connection before the engine pipe? water shoulnt be circulating directly from the lower hose into the rear of engine right? help thanku not even sure if that t-hose IS the correct hose to use because when I look up replacement parts for 89 525i lower rad hose---its not showing a T-hose (3way)
Have you checked realoem.com as was suggested earlier ? You CANNOT go wrong with that and you are asking for very detailed information. You can put in the last 7 digits of your vin number for your exact car which is nice though not necessary.
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  #16  
Old 11-07-2012, 04:45 PM
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BMWFatherFigure BMWFatherFigure is offline
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The bottle fixes are a 'get you home' at best. Leaving such fluids in the system is not good on a sound engine on the off chance it might fix a problem. HG blows are corrosion or cracks. Some can be welded as a permanent repair but always with the head off. Its only a straight six: it has a blown head gasket! - Get the tool box out and fix it once and for all or sell it and get another car
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  #17  
Old 11-07-2012, 05:07 PM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Originally Posted by BMWFatherFigure View Post
The bottle fixes are a 'get you home' at best. Leaving such fluids in the system is not good on a sound engine on the off chance it might fix a problem. HG blows are corrosion or cracks. Some can be welded as a permanent repair but always with the head off. Its only a straight six: it has a blown head gasket! - Get the tool box out and fix it once and for all or sell it and get another car
I agree that repair is the best thing to do. However, this is very expensive.

What could go wrong if you use such fluids (non particulate non silicate coolant compatible versions) in your radiator even if there's no apparent problem to fix ?
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2012, 07:08 PM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertobaggio20 View Post
I agree that repair is the best thing to do. However, this is very expensive.

What could go wrong if you use such fluids (non particulate non silicate coolant compatible versions) in your radiator even if there's no apparent problem to fix ?
Last I checked, getting out my toolbox was extremely economical.

The actual headgaskt can be had for the price of your mechanic in a can.
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  #19  
Old 11-07-2012, 07:28 PM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Originally Posted by snowsled7 View Post
Last I checked, getting out my toolbox was extremely economical.

The actual headgaskt can be had for the price of your mechanic in a can.
Then we'll simply call on you to perform the labour on our cars for free then, we supply the gasket, when we lack the skills and the toolbox to do it competently ourselves

Last edited by robertobaggio20; 11-07-2012 at 07:33 PM.
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  #20  
Old 11-09-2012, 04:49 AM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Originally Posted by robertobaggio20 View Post
Then we'll simply call on you to perform the labour on our cars for free then, we supply the gasket, when we lack the skills and the toolbox to do it competently ourselves
Get a toolbox, learn some skills. I understand you lack these things so... maybe you should quit trying to give advice on subjects you do not understand
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  #21  
Old 11-16-2012, 09:22 AM
89homewreckr 89homewreckr is offline
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hi again

so... I have a lower rad hose "T"s off connecting under thermostat area and then traveling back to rear of engine.
I have 3 nipps coming off firewall and looks like NO aux water pump and NO heater.
I CANT route these hoses using realoems site, IVE TRIED! PLEASE SEND ME PIX OF YOUR 1989 525I RAD. HOSE, HEATRHOSE ROUTING ALL THE WAY TO THE FIREWALL AND REAR ENGINE ETC.ETC.ETC.ETC AND EVERYWHERE ELSE A HOSE WOULD GO TO IF POSS! THANK U



CURRENTLY MY HOSES ARE JUNKED SO START ME OFF THE RIGHT WAY LIKE BRAND NEW PLEASE!!!!!!!TY
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  #22  
Old 11-16-2012, 09:42 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Originally Posted by 89homewreckr View Post
It seems as though my aux water pump and heater are disconnected. I am having trouble deciphering the diagrams on RealOEM, and would like some help in figuring out how they go. If it is possible for somebody to post a picture or an accurate description, I would greatly appreciate it.

The car is a 1989 525i, with the M20 engine. I do not know if the tansmission type would make a difference in the hoses or placement of said hoses.

Unfortunately, I have tossed the old, original hoses (silly me!) so it seems as if I am starting from scratch. Square 1:_______________

Thanks in advance for all of your time and help!
Start off by calming down. We are here to help you for free. People do not like 2 B TALKD 2 LIK DIS.

I think if you order the parts you need, they should fit together like a puzzle. They are easily bent but retain their shape so finding points shouldnt be hard. Please post pictures of your car and the missing hoses so we can help you.
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  #23  
Old 11-16-2012, 10:17 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89homewreckr View Post
so... I have a lower rad hose "T"s off connecting under thermostat area and then traveling back to rear of engine.
I have 3 nipps coming off firewall and looks like NO aux water pump and NO heater.
I CANT route these hoses using realoems site, IVE TRIED! PLEASE SEND ME PIX OF YOUR 1989 525I RAD. HOSE, HEATRHOSE ROUTING ALL THE WAY TO THE FIREWALL AND REAR ENGINE ETC.ETC.ETC.ETC AND EVERYWHERE ELSE A HOSE WOULD GO TO IF POSS! THANK U



CURRENTLY MY HOSES ARE JUNKED SO START ME OFF THE RIGHT WAY LIKE BRAND NEW PLEASE!!!!!!!TY
I think you should take your car into a workshop. Just cough up the dough, its a one time thing and you can put this behind you permanently. You have had enough time with the car, the heater valve and cooling system hoses etc are fairly easy to figure out on an m20 engine even without the realoem.com diagrams as it is uncluttered compared to an m50, and you are still having trouble with it. This is a cooling system issue that could screw your engine if you mess it up further. Your ride has been down for too long you are losing utility and thats money too. Please take this comment seriously.

Last edited by robertobaggio20; 11-16-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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