Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 6 Series > E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)

E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)
The E63/E64 BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-16-2012, 10:56 AM
oRIDDLERo oRIDDLERo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 189
Mein Auto: 2006 BMW 650i
aFe Throttle Body Spacer on a 650i

I just had mine delivered just to try it (got it cheap off ebay for $120). I am running an aFe CAI and 3x Res delete + x-pipe with magnaflows.

There are no posts here in the 6-Series forum so i figured I would start one.

The manufacturer claims:

"This Silver Bullet throttle body spacer produced 10 hp and 14 lbs. x ft. of torque by creating turbulence in the air flow at the point just prior entry into the engine. Silver Bullet throttle body spacers are constructed out of durable T-6061 billet aluminum and using a unique serrated/helix entry to create turbulence at the manifold while eliminating the annoying whistle found in other helix only throttle spacers"


Based on the limited info I can find on the aFe and smiler spacers from research... It seems there are mixed review on this. Many people feel they are a total waste on turbo cars, but since we are running a NA v8 i figured i would give it a shot... Even if the only gain I see is a few MPG im ok with that...

It also seems crazy/bold that the manufacturer claims 10 hp and 14 lbs. x ft Tq... with a dyno chart attached... lol That would be a huge gain for such a cheap part. How could they get away with such bold false advertising if untrue?

Anyhow, Im going to install it tomorrow and post my feedback.. Thoughts? Snake oil? Has anyone tried one on a 6?
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 11-16-2012, 12:41 PM
reytran's Avatar
reytran reytran is offline
Nothing quite like a 6
Location: Santa Monica
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 521
Mein Auto: 09' 650i Cabrio
I did it couple of days ago. The throttle body + CAi. I have magnaflow xpipe and all resonators deleted. To be honest with both aFe CAI and throttle body, It's not a significant improvement that you can feel. My car has exactly same setup with what your planning. It sounds crazily deep when you hit the floor but at cruising speed you won't notice much. I'm searching for a good deal on M6 eisenmann. However, the throttle body, in my opinion create a weird effect when the car down shift. I'm not sure since I'm not car professional, but whenever the automatic down shift, the car feels like someone kick its butt. LOL
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-16-2012, 12:50 PM
greco2000's Avatar
greco2000 greco2000 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 605
Mein Auto: 2008 650i LCI
How do you like the AFE CAI? Noticeable gains? How does it sound, noticeable? That was going to be my next mod, after I install my exhaust
__________________


2012 BMW M6 CONVERTIBLE
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-16-2012, 01:16 PM
oRIDDLERo oRIDDLERo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 189
Mein Auto: 2006 BMW 650i
Quote:
Originally Posted by reytran View Post
I did it couple of days ago. The throttle body + CAi. I have magnaflow xpipe and all resonators deleted. To be honest with both aFe CAI and throttle body, It's not a significant improvement that you can feel. My car has exactly same setup with what your planning. It sounds crazily deep when you hit the floor but at cruising speed you won't notice much. I'm searching for a good deal on M6 eisenmann. However, the throttle body, in my opinion create a weird effect when the car down shift. I'm not sure since I'm not car professional, but whenever the automatic down shift, the car feels like someone kick its butt. LOL
Hmm... I guess I'll just install it and see what happens

Quote:
Originally Posted by greco2000 View Post
How do you like the AFE CAI? Noticeable gains? How does it sound, noticeable? That was going to be my next mod, after I install my exhaust
Definitely a sound and throttle response improvement over stock even with stock exhaust.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-16-2012, 03:35 PM
albertoxikitin albertoxikitin is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: spain
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 496
Mein Auto: bmw e63
Waiting for the pics....
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-16-2012, 03:53 PM
reytran's Avatar
reytran reytran is offline
Nothing quite like a 6
Location: Santa Monica
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 521
Mein Auto: 09' 650i Cabrio
This is mine setup with throttle body undercover.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-17-2012, 06:08 AM
mjposner mjposner is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West Palm Beach
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 167
Mein Auto: BMW M
I had the same setup from Dinan on my M Roadster, plus stage 2 software. Really did not feel that much different or at all. You should at least consider software tuned to the changes to help the ecu know what happened.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-18-2012, 11:24 AM
reytran's Avatar
reytran reytran is offline
Nothing quite like a 6
Location: Santa Monica
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 521
Mein Auto: 09' 650i Cabrio
Still waiting for Riddler feedback.
__________________
2009 BMW 650i Cabrio (daily drive)
2011 Audi A4 (groceries, bully, road trip, winter beater, family car)

BMW CCA ID: 473647
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-18-2012, 11:31 AM
oRIDDLERo oRIDDLERo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 189
Mein Auto: 2006 BMW 650i
Quote:
Originally Posted by reytran View Post
Still waiting for Riddler feedback.
Feedback = I think it did something =]

I'm going to leave it on. If anything, I have noticed a slight gas savings.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-02-2014, 08:11 PM
Brandovibe Brandovibe is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 109
Mein Auto: 650I
Where does it go, right before the intake on the engine, or further down the air intake track?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-02-2014, 08:12 PM
Brandovibe Brandovibe is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 109
Mein Auto: 650I
Quote:
Originally Posted by reytran View Post
This is mine setup with throttle body undercover.
You mean under the bmw engine cover right? now all the way down by the air filter, is that right?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-02-2014, 08:14 PM
reytran's Avatar
reytran reytran is offline
Nothing quite like a 6
Location: Santa Monica
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 521
Mein Auto: 09' 650i Cabrio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandovibe View Post
You mean under the bmw engine cover right? now all the way down by the air filter, is that right?
Yes. It's less than 10 minutes installation. But I remove mine since there is no significant hp increase but only throttle lag.
__________________
2009 BMW 650i Cabrio (daily drive)
2011 Audi A4 (groceries, bully, road trip, winter beater, family car)

BMW CCA ID: 473647
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-02-2014, 08:16 PM
Brandovibe Brandovibe is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 109
Mein Auto: 650I
Quote:
Originally Posted by reytran View Post
Yes. It's less than 10 minutes installation. But I remove mine since there is no significant hp increase but only throttle lag.
what do you mean by lag...hit the gas and wait for power?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-02-2014, 08:17 PM
reytran's Avatar
reytran reytran is offline
Nothing quite like a 6
Location: Santa Monica
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 521
Mein Auto: 09' 650i Cabrio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandovibe View Post
what do you mean by lag...hit the gas and wait for power?
Yup. 0.5-1s delay. LOL.
__________________
2009 BMW 650i Cabrio (daily drive)
2011 Audi A4 (groceries, bully, road trip, winter beater, family car)

BMW CCA ID: 473647
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-02-2014, 08:25 PM
Brandovibe Brandovibe is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 109
Mein Auto: 650I
that sucks! they advertise 10hp gain...what a scam.....
Wait, is there a power gain after that lag is over? haha
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-03-2014, 12:42 AM
coug60's Avatar
coug60 coug60 is online now
06 BMW 650i Sprt/Prem Pkg
Location: Colorado
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,146
Mein Auto: 2006 BMW 650i e64
The only fuel vaporizers that Ive seen that do any good are the spacers that bolt between the throttle-body and the intake manifold.
The high end ones do work. You get more mpg then anything else.
The other ones go between the filter and the throttle-body. Ive tried them before. I found that all they really do is restrict the airflow in the tube....
__________________

2006 BMW 650i Sport/Premium Package
+ Various Mods & Upgrades
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-03-2014, 04:55 AM
Brandovibe Brandovibe is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 109
Mein Auto: 650I
Quote:
Originally Posted by coug60 View Post
The only fuel vaporizers that Ive seen that do any good are the spacers that bolt between the throttle-body and the intake manifold.
The high end ones do work. You get more mpg then anything else.
The other ones go between the filter and the throttle-body. Ive tried them before. I found that all they really do is restrict the airflow in the tube....
Let me ask a silly question. It seems like such a simple and overall inexpensive solution. For a manufacturer that is always on the quest for better fuel mileage, you would think that they would have this built into the design from the factory if it did anything beneficial? I don't know, just seems like snake oil to me. Of course I base this on no personal experience whatsoever.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-03-2014, 05:33 AM
BEBosworth BEBosworth is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Northern New Jersey
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 168
Mein Auto: 2008 650i Convertible
Ideally, if you could either chill (artificially make the inlet air denser), or tune the airflow pattern (get the absolute highest flow) going into the engine, there are gains to be had. Problem is doing that without adding a lot of weight in the space allowed. Obviously you can't put a refrigerator under the hood to run air through. Turbo cars can do this a bit easier because there is a negative pressure before the inlet side of the turbo (it sucks the air in) so it's not that big a deal to run this through an intercooler. Normally aspirated engines are a bit more difficult. Try to run it through an intercooler and you'll choke the engine The idea is to get as many air molecules into the engine as possible. However, do the wrong thing and you could easily spoil the flow with a pressure gradient inside the inlet. The spacers are supposed to work a bit like the dimples on a golf ball in that they effect the air flow against the walls of the inlet or force the air to flow in an optimized higher density pattern. With that said, I have no idea if they work and at what RPM range they would work. It's a really dynamic environment. It may work fine up to 4000 rpm than create a stall situation.
__________________


Freedom Isn't Free
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-03-2014, 09:14 AM
bigscore bigscore is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 716
Mein Auto: 06 650i
I never brought in to the whole "throttle body" mod...
__________________
No car is quite like a BMW....

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-03-2014, 10:57 AM
coug60's Avatar
coug60 coug60 is online now
06 BMW 650i Sprt/Prem Pkg
Location: Colorado
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,146
Mein Auto: 2006 BMW 650i e64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandovibe View Post
Let me ask a silly question. It seems like such a simple and overall inexpensive solution. For a manufacturer that is always on the quest for better fuel mileage, you would think that they would have this built into the design from the factory if it did anything beneficial? I don't know, just seems like snake oil to me. Of course I base this on no personal experience whatsoever.
There are a lot of after market items that work on automobiles for performance and mpg that apparently the auto manufactures don't incorporate into there designs. Why I have no idea other then money, EPA stuff or no significant benefit to the design.
That being said and Ive said this several times on the board. Anything YOU can do in YOUR GARAGE in an hour or so to your car will more then likely make your car more efficient and MAYBE a couple of HP gains if it does anything at all. A 10 hp gain is HUGE and im sorry i just don't believe you can get that from an hour in the garage. I know it.....

When it comes to air flow, the things you are looking for are volume, the most direct route to the cylinder (no turns and bends) and temperature.
My experiences comes from American muscle cars. Drag racers will Ice there engines. Literally covering the engine in ice cubes before a race. There intake manifolds have a direct path right to the cylinder and have ram air or blower for volume.

Spacers that bolt between the throttle body and the intake manifold basically just give the fuel a little more distance (some have little ribs in them to excite the air flow) to travel thus vaporizing it more.

Spacers, cold air intake, ram air mod, larger throttle body's, anything you can do in your garage will have a accumulative affect and you will have a more efficient car with better mpg and a FEW more hp's. After that the next least invasive to the wallet and garage before diving into the engine would be a tuned exhaust system. That will get some improvement on performance
__________________

2006 BMW 650i Sport/Premium Package
+ Various Mods & Upgrades

Last edited by coug60; 05-03-2014 at 11:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-23-2015, 07:40 AM
BMW_Stu BMW_Stu is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: md
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 302
Mein Auto: Camaro, soon to have BMW
I know it's frowned upon to comment in old threads, but i'll add my own 2 cents. First off, our cars use Valvetronic Technology. The Valvetronic system essentially replaces the functionality of a throttle body. If your car engine is functioning normally, the throttle body remains fully open and all "throttle" and acceleration are actually controlled by valvetronic cam lift and duration. The only time our Throttle body operates like a normal throttle body is when your car is in limp mode or "EML".

Secondly, our car's are Direct Injected (if i'm not mistaken), but even the regular style of fuel injection takes place at the bottom of the intake runners, close to the heads, far from the throttle body. Some of the earlier and most basic forms of fuel injection that you might find on early 90's cars actually "injects" fuel behind the throttle body, very similar to the way a carburetor does it... in that case, a throttle body spacer might do something. Our cars are FAR removed from that type of technology and a throttle body spacer has absolutely no performance gains to offer on any modern BMW or even many modern cars at all.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-23-2015, 07:59 AM
Biochem Biochem is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Austin, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 105
Mein Auto: 2009 650i
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_Stu View Post
I know it's frowned upon to comment in old threads, but i'll add my own 2 cents. First off, our cars use Valvetronic Technology. The Valvetronic system essentially replaces the functionality of a throttle body. If your car engine is functioning normally, the throttle body remains fully open and all "throttle" and acceleration are actually controlled by valvetronic cam lift and duration. The only time our Throttle body operates like a normal throttle body is when your car is in limp mode or "EML".

Secondly, our car's are Direct Injected (if i'm not mistaken), but even the regular style of fuel injection takes place at the bottom of the intake runners, close to the heads, far from the throttle body. Some of the earlier and most basic forms of fuel injection that you might find on early 90's cars actually "injects" fuel behind the throttle body, very similar to the way a carburetor does it... in that case, a throttle body spacer might do something. Our cars are FAR removed from that type of technology and a throttle body spacer has absolutely no performance gains to offer on any modern BMW or even many modern cars at all.
Yep, what he just said.

Imagine the engine is an air pump sucking through a straw. The larger diameter the straw, the faster the engine gets air. The shorter the straw, the faster the engine gets air. The fewer bends and turns in the straw, the faster the engine gets air.

That's why things like a larger air filter and an intake tube (without those sound deadening baffles) will give you a little extra HP. But there is a point where it ceases to be a restriction. Your engine isn't going to be able to suck in more than ~800cfm of air. Your throttle body won't be able to flow more than ~900cfm of air. So having a tube/filter that flows 1100cfm of air is overkill. A throttle body spacer isn't going to help these engines one bit.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-23-2015, 11:56 AM
dolfan13's Avatar
dolfan13 dolfan13 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: lexington,ky usa
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,147
Mein Auto: 545i
I like the open filter under the hood.These n62,n62tu cars must have the highest under hood temps in the auto industry's history.So suck that hot air right in.The factory setup tries to draw outside air that I would hope is lower temp than in that under hood oven.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-23-2015, 02:16 PM
Brandovibe Brandovibe is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 109
Mein Auto: 650I
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_Stu View Post
I know it's frowned upon to comment in old threads, but i'll add my own 2 cents. First off, our cars use Valvetronic Technology. The Valvetronic system essentially replaces the functionality of a throttle body. If your car engine is functioning normally, the throttle body remains fully open and all "throttle" and acceleration are actually controlled by valvetronic cam lift and duration. The only time our Throttle body operates like a normal throttle body is when your car is in limp mode or "EML".

Secondly, our car's are Direct Injected (if i'm not mistaken), but even the regular style of fuel injection takes place at the bottom of the intake runners, close to the heads, far from the throttle body. Some of the earlier and most basic forms of fuel injection that you might find on early 90's cars actually "injects" fuel behind the throttle body, very similar to the way a carburetor does it... in that case, a throttle body spacer might do something. Our cars are FAR removed from that type of technology and a throttle body spacer has absolutely no performance gains to offer on any modern BMW or even many modern cars at all.
Thanks for that Stu, well said. And forget all that "frowned upon to comment on an old thread" stuff. That is stupid, I personally always appreciate good info being added to a discussion, regardless of how long ago it was originally discussed. I still own the car so it's still relevant to me!!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-23-2015, 08:47 PM
BMW_Stu BMW_Stu is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: md
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 302
Mein Auto: Camaro, soon to have BMW
in another BMW forum i was a part of, it was called "necroposting" and folks actually got banned for it.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 6 Series > E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms