Snow.. Go i -or- xi?

Originally Posted by jfox335i

It's a good choice, I've debated for both lines in other threads. That said, one of the most attractive options on the M-line is the M steering wheel. If you want a heated steering wheel, the M wheel isn't it. I have a sport line with the heated steering wheel and its awesome. I would still trade it for the M wheel in a hot minute.

If you do get the M-line, I implore you to keep the M wheel over the heated steering wheel.

I drove an M with the M wheel that was heated. It can come that way. Were you thinking it couldn't or am I misunderstanding you and missing something importsant? By the way, I know it sounds pathetic, but I like the thick M wheel for my arthritis. Also why I want a heated steering wheel and that IS what sent me looking for a new car. Otherwise I love my E46 and it was doing me fine.

Originally Posted by r0gue

I drove an M with the M wheel that was heated. It can come that way. Were you thinking it couldn't or am I misunderstanding you and missing something importsant? By the way, I know it sounds pathetic, but I like the thick M wheel for my arthritis. Also why I want a heated steering wheel and that IS what sent me looking for a new car. Otherwise I love my E46 and it was doing me fine.

My understanding was that the M steering wheel is not heated. If you use the bmwusa configurator, it stated that. I test drove 2 m-lines with the M wheel and CW package and neither steering wheel was heated. My CA confirmed this when I test drove those cars. That's interesting if what you say is true, I may have to pony up some sawbucks to have the m wheel installed at the dealer. I'm gonna do some research on this.

Originally Posted by jfox335i

If you use the bmwusa configurator, it stated that. .

I've built it online with the M Sport line and the cold weather package. It worked for me. And again, I drove one with the button. Nice and toasty. Perhaps you are referring to adding ONLY the heated wheel without the cold weather package. I did not try that.

Originally Posted by r0gue

No. I respectfully do not agree. How about RWD isn't a consideration when safety is your only priority instead?

I think you're being pedantic. If safety is your top priority it trumps other criteria and can, for all intents and purposes, be viewed as the only criteria when selecting a starting point (i.e. RWD versus AWD).

Originally Posted by r0gue

I believe my position is that based on my experience, my snow driving skill, my local snowfall history, my required commute length, my demands for "feel" of the vehicle in multiple situations year round -- that I will opt for two sets of wheels and RWD. I believe that RWD with winters and good driving skill can provide safety.

I agree. It can. And AWD with winters can provide even more safety. What you're doing is making a compromise. You're sacrificing added safety for "feel". And that's fine...life is about choices. Choices typically involve some form of compromise. I suspect you've determined the RWD with winter tires provides an acceptable level of safety and therefore your decision is now based on other factors.

Originally Posted by Wayne's World

Absolutely right. There is no substitute for winter tires no matter what you have. Blizzaks are passable. Get something real like Nokian Hakkapellitta and don't look back. The i would be a fine choice. Xi is about getting going. Its the tires that will get you stopped in a hurry.

Again people are focusing solely on snowy / icy conditions. There are a considerable number of days during the winter where the roads are clear and the weather warm (this latter part maybe not so much in the certain areas).

Back in post #57 I provided Denver area temperatures for this month and last month. The majority of those days saw absolutely no snow and very nice temperatures. The average high for October was 67, the average low 35. For November the average high is currently at 54, and the average low at 26. These temperatures all come despite three days where the low dropped into the teens and three days of light snow. Given snow tires become less effective in dry/warm conditions I would say anyone having snow tires installed has been less safe the past two months. All so they could be more safe for the three days it's snowed.

That's not to say snow tires are bad. Just saying the blanket statements about needing them to be safe are not always accurate.

AWD=additional traction and safety all year around and RWD with Winter tires=additional traction and safety only 2 to 3 months out of the year.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

1) those are customer SURVEYS, not road tests.
2) you can't compare surveys between tires in different CATEGORIES, since the surveys are compiled within a category.
3) the surveys are compiled across many TYPES OF CAR
4) if you want to compare tire performance, you have to look at Tirerack's TESTs

In short, you're trying to compare apples to oranges to bananas with those surveys.

1) These are 6,000,000+ mile road tests - not 60 miles. If they didn't matter, then any individual firsthand experiences of any individual board don't matter either, let's just say like yours.
2) Yes, I can compare Max performance Summer tires to Ultra high performance all-season tires, because people like me have experience driving both.
3) True and unless your recommendations are based upon millions of miles of F30 experience, you comments are based upon other cars too.
4) I have looked at Tireracks tests and typically, they take a poor performing all-season and compare it to a high performing snow tire almost as if they are saying "see you need to buy snow tires from us."

Theses surveys are from a combined 13,000,000 mile experience from users like me or you. To claim our opinions are somehow more important is just plain foolish.

BTW, my current inventory of tires for my BMWs are:

Summer
1) Michelin Pilot SuperSport
2) Bridgestone Potenza RE050A
All-season
1) Continental ExtremeContact DWS
2) Goodyear Eagle LS
Winter
1) Michelin Pilot PA3
2) Dunlop WinterSport 3D

So, I do have firsthand experience in how different tires perform in back-to-back comparisons.

Here is a interesting thread about winter tires on dry road and soft rubber:

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770717

Originally Posted by floydarogers

There isn't room to put chains or cable chains on sport-pack tires/wheels, unless you want to beat up your fenders. Usually there isn't room on the inside to clear the struts anyway. Since you'd have to down-size the tire/wheel combo to put chains on, you might as well go to snow tires. Note that the AWD 'xi cars, since they have a taller stance, can actually take chains.

Modern chains take up very little space and have options such as mounting from the outside only, so no strut issues possible. If you need to downsize, then all-season tires will still give you superior performance the 75-90 days it doesn't snow. Another option are snow socks which are compatible with all staggered all-season set-ups.

Originally Posted by Canada1867

Although I've seen snow bury my front door; I've never needed chains. Snowplows always do their job before I drive. But I do know some first responders that sometimes have to venture out in the middle of the night and have used them on occasion. I can't image living in NJ that you'd ever really need them though. As a matter of fact, if you really really think you need winter tires, go for the ice tires; which are very different than snow tire. In my opinion, the OEM Continental All-Season should cover 99.9% of your needs. Assuming you drive with ordinary caution and wait for the snow plows after 2 feet of snow falls.

Unfortunately for me, the road doesn't get plowed until I get home and plow it myself. The county says it is too dangerous to plow themselves. Chains have helped my RWD cars climb steep slopes when snow tires couldn't cut it. My 550xi with snows makes it up my house, but in certain conditions my 335d with snow tires is best left parked on the main road (subject to getting hit by out of control drivers) since sliding down into a ravine is quite possible on my road. This is also why I say Hill Descent Control on AWD cars is a miracle, since sliding uncontrollably down a hill hoping not to get planted into a tree is no-one's idea of fun.

Originally Posted by The X Men

Here is a interesting thread about winter tires on dry road and soft rubber:

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770717

There's something wrong there.

Originally Posted by The X Men

AWD=additional traction and safety all year around and RWD with Winter tires=additional traction and safety only 2 to 3 months out of the year.

Or maybe even only 2 to 3 days out of the year.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

1) These are 6,000,000+ mile road tests - not 60 miles. If they didn't matter, then any individual firsthand experiences of any individual board don't matter either, let's just say like yours.
...
Theses surveys are from a combined 13,000,000 mile experience from users like me or you. To claim our opinions are somehow more important is just plain foolish.

BTW, my current inventory of tires for my BMWs are:

So, I do have firsthand experience in how different tires perform in back-to-back comparisons.

My point is that those surveys are anecdotal WITHIN a category. For instance, the surveys for people owning Michelin Pilot Sport2 ZP are compiled with owners of Bridgestone RE050A and others in the Summer Performance category. You can't use the surveys to compare PS2 to Pilot Alpine3. And surveys don't trump actual performance.

FYI, I've had the RE050 and PS2 on my current 335d. I currently have Blizzak LM60 snows. On my previous 330xi I've had Conti All Seasons (OEM), Goodyear F1-GSD3, Michelin PA2 and xIce. So I too know what I'm talking about. Let's not get in a pissing match.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

Modern chains take up very little space and have options such as mounting from the outside only, so no strut issues possible. If you need to downsize, then all-season tires will still give you superior performance the 75-90 days it doesn't snow. Another option are snow socks which are compatible with all staggered all-season set-ups.

Nothing but full-on chains or cables are legal in most states. Snow sock, Spyders, etc are not legal in WA state when the chain sign is up. I've tried my cables onto my SP on the rear: they don't fit.

Frankly, Seattle (where the OP is) is an ideal place for Summer Performance or Snows, as performance tires work in our fall and spring quite well: they're usually as good or better in the rain as all-seasons. And I guarantee that a performance all-season (say the Michelin Pilot A/S) is not as good as a PS2 or PSS on dry roads.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Frankly, Seattle (where the OP is) is an ideal place for Summer Performance or Snows, as performance tires work in our fall and spring quite well: they're usually as good or better in the rain as all-seasons. And I guarantee that a performance all-season (say the Michelin Pilot A/S) is not as good as a PS2 or PSS on dry roads.

I believe the OP is in Pennsylvania.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

My point is that those surveys are anecdotal WITHIN a category. For instance, the surveys for people owning Michelin Pilot Sport2 ZP are compiled with owners of Bridgestone RE050A and others in the Summer Performance category. You can't use the surveys to compare PS2 to Pilot Alpine3. And surveys don't trump actual performance.

FYI, I've had the RE050 and PS2 on my current 335d. I currently have Blizzak LM60 snows. On my previous 330xi I've had Conti All Seasons (OEM), Goodyear F1-GSD3, Michelin PA2 and xIce. So I too know what I'm talking about. Let's not get in a pissing match.

I guess we can agree to disagree. BTW, I had only listed six of the seven current sets of tires I currently own, but since you don't want to get in a pissing match I won't bother listing the numerous Summer, Winter, and All-season tires I owned over the past 30 years.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Nothing but full-on chains or cables are legal in most states. Snow sock, Spyders, etc are not legal in WA state when the chain sign is up. I've tried my cables onto my SP on the rear: they don't fit.

Frankly, Seattle (where the OP is) is an ideal place for Summer Performance or Snows, as performance tires work in our fall and spring quite well: they're usually as good or better in the rain as all-seasons. And I guarantee that a performance all-season (say the Michelin Pilot A/S) is not as good as a PS2 or PSS on dry roads.

And I guarantee that Blizzak LM60 snows are not as good as a Michelin Pilot A/S on dry roads.

Originally Posted by sunny5280

I believe the OP is in Pennsylvania.

Too many threads - one OP in one of the awd vs. rwd vs snow vs all-season was in Seattle.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

And I guarantee that Blizzak LM60 snows are not as good as a Michelin Pilot A/S on dry roads.

I only needed to go down my 300' gravel drive and 400' paved road and make one turn to know that! But for sure the a/s won't get me to my cabin, our vacation home, or even up our driveway here if there's more than a bit of snow on the ground.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

... won't bother listing the numerous Summer, Winter, and All-season tires I owned over the past 30 years.

Only 30 years? This is my 34th year of owning BMWs; my memory of snow tires goes back over 50 years to my dad's sawdust tires!

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Only 30 years? This is my 34th year of owning BMWs; my memory of snow tires goes back over 50 years to my dad's sawdust tires!

Man - you're old!

Just in case your memory isn't what it used to be, as I've posted earlier in this thread, I rotate Summers => All-seasons => Snows => All-seasons to drive the optimum tire for the weather conditions, so I don't completely disagree with you on the capabilities of snow tires, but in my experience I have had some excellent all-season tires that performed well in the snow and some snow tires that didn't live up to their potential. Just my experience, yours may have been different... Pops.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Too many threads - one OP in one of the awd vs. rwd vs snow vs all-season was in Seattle.

No worries. I've confused posters on several occasions.

Even if you think you may encounter snow a few days a year, get the ix, no questions asked. I just traded a 2003 5 series for a new 328ix. Even on flat ground I would have some tire spin. The rear drive BMW's are a death trap in the snow. My new 328ix is a gem. I had it out last week in 3 inches of fresh snow and it stuck very well with the Michelin MXM 4's. When the car arrived it came with the Pirelli P 7's but I had the dealer swap them for the Michelin's. They are much quieter than the Pirelli's and better in the snow. Good luck.

Originally Posted by GOLFER1234

Even if you think you may encounter snow a few days a year, get the ix, no questions asked. I just traded a 2003 5 series for a new 328ix. Even on flat ground I would have some tire spin. The rear drive BMW's are a death trap in the snow. My new 328ix is a gem. I had it out last week in 3 inches of fresh snow and it stuck very well with the Michelin MXM 4's. When the car arrived it came with the Pirelli P 7's but I had the dealer swap them for the Michelin's. They are much quieter than the Pirelli's and better in the snow. Good luck.

On summer tires any BMW is a death trap in the snow but I do agree that my rear wheel drive 330i would have too much wheel spin on hard acceleration even in the rain never mind in the snow, that is the major reason I switched from a 2006 330i to a 2008 335xi and now to a 2013 335 xdrive............all 4 wheels hook up instantly even in the rain and in the snow