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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 02-24-2011, 09:21 AM
peterlundorf peterlundorf is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW 530i Touring 1995
M60B30 V8 with M60B40 intake manifold - 250hp

I have just tested a BMW E34 1995 with a M60B30 3-litre V8 engine where the intake manifold was swapped with a M60B40 4-litre manifold which has runners with larger diameter. The throttle body was also swapped - the B40 TB item is bigger (55 mm to 80 mm possibly ?). MAF is standard 3-litre item and it has a K&N air filter.

The result was quite surprising.
The engine is std. apart from a chip which on a previous test showed no gain at all in torque and power compared to the original chip. Rev limiter is raised to 7200 rpm with the alternative chip. It sounds nice but anything above 6500 rpm is pointless. See atteched power curves.
On two different rolling roads the engine made 229hp@6000 and 294Nm@4800 in std. form which is a little better than the factory numbers (218hp and 290Nm). So a fresh engine even though it has 240.000 km in the bearings.

With the manifold and throttle body the numbers were 250hp@6200 and 311Nm@5000.

It feels a little faster in the whole rev-range and especialle low-rpm pickup (1000-2500 rpm) is better and after 5000 rpm it is more progressive than before. It is no enormous change in feel but the whole drivetrain seems more happy and involving now. It is a heavy car (1650 kg plus passengers) so it does not have a sports car feeling.

In the graphs you can see that the new curves are higher in the whole rev-range and espacially above 4000 rpm the gain is clear. However at approx. 6400 rpm the curves drop off and there is no idea of taking it much higher than the std. rev limit of 6500 rpm.

The change of manifold is quite simple and takes only 2-3 hours if you go ahead slowly and with care. The match is perfect. No special tools or tricks - just go ahead.

I am very pleased to get 83 hp/litre (+7) and 104 Nm/litre (+6) with only a minor change to the engine. The engine is basically made to flow well and I wonder what it takes to make keep on pushing after 6500 rpm - maybe camshafts or valve springs are the limiting factor now? Does anyone know if the valves are floating above 6500 rpm?
Exhaust manifolds and pipes are the same ( I think) as in the 286 hp 4-litre version so I expect they are fine for now and not being restrictive.

Fuel economy has maybe even improved slightly but since it is quite poor from the beginning (8 km/l avg.) I donīt imagine it can get worse anyhow.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf M60B30 w B40 manifold.pdf (26.6 KB, 1239 views)

Last edited by peterlundorf; 02-25-2011 at 12:41 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2011, 09:28 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Very cool. Nice job and good details!


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  #3  
Old 03-29-2012, 03:31 AM
jordangower jordangower is offline
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Hi Peter,

Great post,

i have a M60 3.0 V8 and looking to extract some more BHP from the engine,

Does this modification require anything else or is it purely bolt off and then bolt on new intake manifold?

Thanks

Jordan
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  #4  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:03 AM
peterlundorf peterlundorf is offline
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Dear Jordan.

Thank you for the positive comment.

It is a very simple and easy job to do and it is a straight bolt on job.
You only need the B40 inlet manifold and the B40 throttle body.
One thing to be aware of though is the "breether" tube going inside the manifold from the front (TB) to the backplate. It can be positioned in two different ways and I am not sure if you can reuse the B30 items or you must have the B40 parts as well.

It took me 2 hours to put in.

There is a well written manual for the job which I have attached. You may need to cut a wire on the right hand cylinder head and put the wire together with a "plug".

You can reuse the ASC unit which is the same on both B30 and B40 engines.

TIP: remove the two back studs from the cylinder heads - it will make it easier to pull up the old manifold and to put the new in.

By the way - I have a B40 manifold + TB I can sell to you for 100$ + shipment.
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File Type: pdf M62 Intake Manifold installation.pdf (3.34 MB, 997 views)
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  #5  
Old 03-30-2012, 04:59 AM
jordangower jordangower is offline
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hi pete, thanks for quick response,

My friend is breaking a car BMW e38 that i think i can get the part from but if not i will buy off you,

So to confirm the only parts i need is the Intake Manifold and the throttle body?

Thanks
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  #6  
Old 03-30-2012, 05:59 AM
peterlundorf peterlundorf is offline
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Hi Jordan.

I think you need to have the following parts if my memory is correct:
- Manifold
- Backplate for vacuum connections (already on the manifold)
- Throttle body (maybe you need to switch throttlecableplate from B30 manifold)
- Internal manifold "breetherpipe"
- Maybe also external "breetherpipe" that runs on left hand side of manifold (you must slide it back and forward when removing and installing manifold)

The brackets that sits on top of the manifold and hold the plastic cover fits both B30 and B40 manifolds. The same goes for the throttle position sender.

Check that the gaskets for the inlet runners are ok - I reused the old gaskets with succes.

You can remove and install the whole assembly (manifold+backplate+TB) as one unit. No need to remove TB seperately when taken the B30 out.

Expect that the B40 manifold is oil-dirty inside when removed from the donorengine so it must be cleaned. To do this you must disassemble the manifold unit (backplate and TB)and the screws can be a pain to get off - so be very carefull not to destroy the screwheads! I replaced all screws with new ones matching a 10mm top.

You can see the difference in TB diameter on the attached image - it is rather large the B40 unit

Please ask if you need any help -

Peter - Denmark - Europe
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  #7  
Old 03-30-2012, 08:12 AM
jordangower jordangower is offline
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Hmm, ok, quite a few bits but im sure i can get all of this no problem,

also one more question peter,

the engine in which i can get this from is the 4.0 and not the 4.4 - has to be m60 4.0 and not m62 right?

Thanks
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:02 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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M20 guys, the same applies for the M50 manifolds, ask any E30 lol
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  #9  
Old 03-30-2012, 10:01 AM
peterlundorf peterlundorf is offline
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Correct!

It has to be the manifold from the M60 and not the M62. M60 has bigger runners.
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  #10  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:52 PM
ivari ivari is offline
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As the throttle bodies are in different diameters, don't you also need the rubber boot, MAF and air filter box upper part from b40? At least I bought them as well, now waiting for all the gaskets to arrive to do the change.
B40 intake parts from MAF are ~ 1 cm bigger in diameter so what's the point in changing only the manifold and TB when you can't get more air to it? Or am I missing sth?

And also early years non-vanos M62 intake manifolds can be used because they are exactly the same as used on M60. They have the same part numbers. Only difference is that in M62 manifolds, there's that internal vent pipe and due to that slightly different PCV.

Anyway, I hope to get mine changed soon and I let you know, if there's any improvement or not.

Last edited by ivari; 04-22-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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  #11  
Old 04-18-2012, 06:13 PM
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1995i540 1995i540 is offline
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I'm sorry to be skeptical of this but what were the weather conditions like for both runs? Same exact dyno setting?

IMHO I think part of that HP gain is from new gaskets and TLC.
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  #12  
Old 04-19-2012, 12:13 AM
peterlundorf peterlundorf is offline
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"As the throttle bodies are in different diameters, don't you also need the rubber boot, MAF and air filter box upper part from b40? At least I bought them as well, now waiting for all the gaskets to arrive to do the change.
B40 intake parts from MAF are ~ 1,5 cm bigger in diameter so what's the point in changing only the manifold and TB when you can't get more air to it? Or am I missing sth?"


Well, as the B30 and B40 use the same Antispin "throttle body" (forgot the name...) and since the B30 MAF can (I think) handle the relatively little gain in flow there is really no need to use B40 MAF and rubber boot. And I do not know if the B40 MAF will work properly - but I would like to hear the result!

The dyno runs were made on days with the same weather conditions +- 1 deg.C. and I have made many runs with good repeatability on different cars, so I have confidence in the measured power gain.

For example I made a test with a ECU-chip with raised limiter to 7200 rpm to see the difference and even though it was dynoed on two different days the conditions were the same and the results are only 1-5 % apart. See dyno chart.

Maybe TLC will give a gain, but the engine ran perfectly before the operation and the gaskets were not replaced - so there is most likely a gain but maybe my measurement is to positive. We will hopefully find out later as I hope to see some other measurements from other people

Last edited by peterlundorf; 04-19-2012 at 12:15 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2012, 12:20 AM
peterlundorf peterlundorf is offline
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Sorry - forgot to attach ECU-chip dyno test.
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File Type: pdf BMW 530i E43 V8 std. + chip comparison.pdf (51.3 KB, 292 views)
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  #14  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:27 AM
ivari ivari is offline
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b40 MAF uses the same sensor as b30, only difference is in MAF diameter. I think when you have b40 intake manifold and TB, the smaller b30 MAF and rubber boot become quite restrictive to the extra air that b40 manifold can handle. At least it sounds logical.
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2012, 12:21 PM
ivari ivari is offline
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Ok, so I installed the whole 4.0 intake and all new gaskets.



Everything works fine. As my car has automatic gearbox, I can't say that there's a noticeable difference in acceleration. But what definitely changed, is the exhaust sound. Though I had custom made exhaust system before, it still made the sound lower and better.
Here's a video of the exhaust before changing the intake



Don't have the after video yet but it's even better.

Last edited by ivari; 05-08-2012 at 12:23 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-08-2012, 04:57 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Nice sound.

I wish you had been able to dyno your car prior to any changes and then dyno it with only the intake system swap so you could do a real world comparison to evaluate the claims of HP increase.

Glad you got it all done and everything works well
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  #17  
Old 09-18-2012, 01:55 PM
Bravothreezero Bravothreezero is offline
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I'm looking at putting the 4-litre manifold/tb in my 530i, as it needs new oil separator and gaskets anyways. I think it would help, as my engine is a bit asthmatic at the altitude I live at, especially on hot days.

However I am wondering about the MAF/Filter Box/Rubber boot setup. I think keeping the 530i components would be fine, as the filter box intake is the same size on both the 3 and 4-litre variants, however according to the ETK, the boot from the MAF to the throttle body is different. If I kept my MAF, do I need the 4-litre version boot, and if so, do I need some sort of adapter to get it to fit the smaller MAF body?

By the way, hello all, my first post on a great forum
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  #18  
Old 09-25-2012, 04:24 PM
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mottati mottati is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravothreezero View Post
I'm looking at putting the 4-litre manifold/tb in my 530i, as it needs new oil separator and gaskets anyways. I think it would help, as my engine is a bit asthmatic at the altitude I live at, especially on hot days.

However I am wondering about the MAF/Filter Box/Rubber boot setup. I think keeping the 530i components would be fine, as the filter box intake is the same size on both the 3 and 4-litre variants, however according to the ETK, the boot from the MAF to the throttle body is different. If I kept my MAF, do I need the 4-litre version boot, and if so, do I need some sort of adapter to get it to fit the smaller MAF body?

By the way, hello all, my first post on a great forum
the boot is larger because the 'outlet' of the airbox is larger, to the mafs. the mafs is larger diameter, to match the larger throttle body. The intake piping from the tb/mafs to the airbox is also larger in diameter. I did this to my touring, and replaced it all. Intake, tb, maf, boots and airbox lid. The lower part of the airbox is the same, you can remove the tube in the lower airbox to open up that part for more airflow.

To me, it makes no sense to have the bigger intake and then bottleneck it with the smaller mafs and intake piping.
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:33 PM
bumerz bumerz is offline
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i have donor for swap from 1997 740i will it fit on my 1994 530i???
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  #20  
Old 11-21-2012, 11:56 PM
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1995i540 1995i540 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumerz View Post
i have donor for swap from 1997 740i will it fit on my 1994 530i???
Yes
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