Track: 335i vs 550i

I'm very confused on the matter, from one person I hear the 550i is better from the other the 335i...

I'm thinking about getting a 335i coupe but I'm afraid I'd be more happy with the 360hp 550i and that reliable motor.

My questions
Would the 335i lose very much power over a course of around 4years with about 15k miles a year and if so about how much?
Does the 335i have better throttle response than the 550i or are they both lifeless?
About how much would it cost to get a 550i to handle like a 335i and what suspension parts would that require.
How much HP could I get out of a 335i without messing with the turbos? Doing things such as cold air intake and exuast changes.
Same question for the 550i.
And the important one which one would be faster around a track such as Luguna Sega, stock? The 335i with better handling or the 550i with more horsepower?

I'm very confused on the matter, from one person I hear the 550i is better from the other the 335i...

I'm thinking about getting a 335i coupe but I'm afraid I'd be more happy with the 360hp 550i and that reliable motor.

My questions
Would the 335i lose very much power over a course of around 4years with about 15k miles a year and if so about how much?
Does the 335i have better throttle response than the 550i or are they both lifeless?
About how much would it cost to get a 550i to handle like a 335i and what suspension parts would that require.
How much HP could I get out of a 335i without messing with the turbos? Doing things such as cold air intake and exuast changes.
Same question for the 550i.
And the important one which one would be faster around a track such as Luguna Sega, stock? The 335i with better handling or the 550i with more horsepower?

Lots of interesting questions.
Regarding the track question, couldn;t tell you which would be faster. In the hands of a novice driver, or in the hands of a pro? I have driven a 550, it is really fast. I own and have tracked my 335, it is really fast at the track too. Both of these cars are fun on a track for a novice. Neither of these cars is a track car without considerable mods. Buy it for the street.

The 335 will be faster around the track. Either car can be tracked stock, the biggest mod will be the driver for a long time. Ultimately, the 335 is lighter (it is all relative) and will have less weight to move around in the corners. Paraphrasing the words of Colin Chapman of Lotus fame...more power makes you faster on the straights, less weight makes you faster everywhere.

The best mod you can get for power is an engine tune. 335s have a lower boost pressure (you are turboing a 3 litre engine, that's why there is low turbo lag) and this can be tweaked to a variety of performance levels. The BMW Performance tune (if still available) is the most conservative, but the after market tunes from a variety of sources have been shown to be reliable and safe. CAI and exhaust won't do a lot for you, BMW have already done a lot of high quality design work on the engine sucking and blowing. BMW isn't limited to only recruiting engineers that don't make it at after market mod companies! The only heads up I would give is that you need to add an aftermarket oil cooler to tuned engines (if it isn't already on the car stock) if you are going to track them - they have a tendency to get too hot and the engine goes into limp mode until it cools off.

The throttle response can be adjusted by using a Sprint Booster module. The "dead" pedal is a lag put in the system by the electronics to prevent morons crashing their car. I have one in my M3 that I use day-to-day, but I switch it off at the track as it makes the throttle response much more difficult to modulate as you squeeze in power exiting corners.

Skaggs, what is your track experience? Your only competitor on a track day is yourself, the only competition is the next turn. I can tell by your emphasis on speed that you probably haven't been out too much. Otherwise you would be asking how you might further reduce the weight of your Miata.
The real accomplishment on any given track day is being able to say you took every turn on the fastest possible line. If I can string four or five perfect turns together I consider it a good outing.
There are very few cars faster than mine on track day. On the straightaway. Which is always a small percentage of the course, and means nothing if you brake badly for the first turn. There are a few good books on driving fast at the track -which always means fast in the turns, not on the straights! -get one of them and memorize the techniques. You'll show up mentally prepared with your 328, ready to have faster lap times than the 335's and the 550's.

Originally Posted by DSXMachina

Skaggs, what is your track experience? Your only competitor on a track day is yourself, the only competition is the next turn. I can tell by your emphasis on speed that you probably haven't been out too much. Otherwise you would be asking how you might further reduce the weight of your Miata.
The real accomplishment on any given track day is being able to say you took every turn on the fastest possible line. If I can string four or five perfect turns together I consider it a good outing.
There are very few cars faster than mine on track day. On the straightaway. Which is always a small percentage of the course, and means nothing if you brake badly for the first turn. There are a few good books on driving fast at the track -which always means fast in the turns, not on the straights! -get one of them and memorize the techniques. You'll show up mentally prepared with your 328, ready to have faster lap times than the 335's and the 550's.

N.B. Nashua County Fair Bumper Car Ride is only regarded as a track in southern New Hampshire, and they have told you several times that you cannot use your 335 there anymore.

Originally Posted by Skaggs1204

I'm very confused on the matter, from one person I hear the 550i is better from the other the 335i...

I'm thinking about getting a 335i coupe but I'm afraid I'd be more happy with the 360hp 550i and that reliable motor.

My questions
Would the 335i lose very much power over a course of around 4years with about 15k miles a year and if so about how much?
Does the 335i have better throttle response than the 550i or are they both lifeless?
About how much would it cost to get a 550i to handle like a 335i and what suspension parts would that require.
How much HP could I get out of a 335i without messing with the turbos? Doing things such as cold air intake and exuast changes.
Same question for the 550i.
And the important one which one would be faster around a track such as Luguna Sega, stock? The 335i with better handling or the 550i with more horsepower?

Who drives a track car on the street? Only bugs-in-the-teeth masochists.

Both can use substantial upgrades, making a better [amateur] track car and a much better behaved street car. That's MUCH better behaved, street. Yow! M parts, coilovers; LSD needed.

N54 335i is a modder's paradise, reliably producing ~450 hp and ~450 ft lb. Can be configured to feel like a V8. Naturally a 550i has more potential, but at high cost.

Takes yer pick. 3 usually preferred for performance; 5 for comfort. But you knew that.

Originally Posted by DSXMachina

Skaggs, what is your track experience? Your only competitor on a track day is yourself, the only competition is the next turn. I can tell by your emphasis on speed that you probably haven't been out too much. Otherwise you would be asking how you might further reduce the weight of your Miata.
The real accomplishment on any given track day is being able to say you took every turn on the fastest possible line. If I can string four or five perfect turns together I consider it a good outing.
There are very few cars faster than mine on track day. On the straightaway. Which is always a small percentage of the course, and means nothing if you brake badly for the first turn. There are a few good books on driving fast at the track -which always means fast in the turns, not on the straights! -get one of them and memorize the techniques. You'll show up mentally prepared with your 328, ready to have faster lap times than the 335's and the 550's.

The Force is with you, DSX.

Originally Posted by ///M-ratedE90

N.B. Nashua County Fair Bumper Car Ride is only regarded as a track in southern New Hampshire, and they have told you several times that you cannot use your 335 there anymore.

We refer to it as Full Contact Track Time. The only rule is that all beer bottles thrown from the car must clear the ride building before landing.
The OP is from Arkansas, I'm sure he knows all about it. He seems to have disappeared. Probably just out bagging his wild boar for Thanksgiving dinner. Think fox hunt except you ride in a car rather than on a horse. Yeehaaaaaaa!

Originally Posted by DSXMachina

We refer to it as Full Contact Track Time. The only rule is that all beer bottles thrown from the car must clear the ride building before landing.
The OP is from Arkansas, I'm sure he knows all about it. He seems to have disappeared. Probably just out bagging his wild boar for Thanksgiving dinner. Think fox hunt except you ride in a car rather than on a horse. Yeehaaaaaaa!

A jest. As you know very well, was invented in Arkansas.

My friend Bob is the pace car driver at Lime Rock Park and gives Hot Laps to fans in the pace car during the lunch break at major events.

BMW supplies the LRP pace cars and recently provided a 550i. The general consensus of Bob and the other pace car drivers was that the 550 was a nice luxury car but definitely not a track car.

CA

I have been racing dirt track since I was 14 in highly modded camaros with around 500tourque. I'm not wanting this to be a track car but rather a something I will love to drive on the road. I'm just woundering if I can get the 550i handling like a 335i because I am afraid of messing with the turbos and ruining the life of the engine in the 335i trying to get the same power as the 550i. (I am going to be owning which ever one I buy for around 4 years and around 60k miles on top of what I buy already has.) Reminder: I'm not going to track this car, I already have a car for that.

Originally Posted by Skaggs1204

I have been racing dirt track since I was 14 in highly modded camaros with around 500tourque. I'm not wanting this to be a track car but rather a something I will love to drive on the road. I'm just woundering if I can get the 550i handling like a 335i because I am afraid of messing with the turbos and ruining the life of the engine in the 335i trying to get the same power as the 550i. (I am going to be owning which ever one I buy for around 4 years and around 60k miles on top of what I buy already has.) Reminder: I'm not going to track this car, I already have a car for that.

Whoa, Smokey, this is quite a dilemma you have. First do a power to weight calculation and suddenly the 335 will look a little better. Then take a look at what people like Calwaterboy have done and what kind of torque they're getting with reasonable mod's. The 335 will be an easy choice.
However, if you're loading the trunk with hooch and heading for the county line on a moonlit night then the equation changes. You might want to sacrifice speed for loading capacity in which case the 550 may have the advantage. Check the capacity of the trunk and calculate a cubic foot to foot pounds ratio. Your call.

Have to think when modded 335 always wins given handling right?

Originally Posted by mg650

Have to think when modded 335 always wins given handling right?

Nosiree....just bolt those M5 parts on w/matched yellows & springs; LSD.

550i in a different reality.

If going to the track is a big factor in your decision, there IS NO decision, you go with the 335i.

The 550i may have more power, but it also weighs a lot more. To get the 550i to handle like the 335i, you'd need to chop off a ton of weight by removing seats, speaker components, sound deadening material, etc..

Getting power out of the 335i should be very, very easy. Things like aftermarket exhausts free up a ton of power because they often times dont need all the power sucking catalytic converters/resonators that the stock units have. I'm guessing here, but a free flowing exhaust + tune should see an easy 50hp.

With equal drivers, I'd find it very hard to believe that the 550i would lap quicker than the 335i.

You'll never get a 5 to handle like a 3. Why? Weight.

I've owned both a Dinan'd E60 550i and E60 M5, and regardless of their modded suspension bits, both were never nimble corner huggers. Until I drove a 335 and an M3 ... stock ... HUGE difference in handling responsiveness. Why? Less weight. 5s are tanks vs. the 3s. Power means nothing without control.

Originally Posted by Roleez

You'll never get a 5 to handle like a 3. Why? Weight.

Significantly heavier, but is that so pronounced on the street?

Even my 4k lb sled surprises; I'm not at all near the limit on public roads - not so bad. That said, gotta agree, shouldn't expect 550i to be a track car.

Originally Posted by Roleez

You'll never get a 5 to handle like a 3. Why? Weight.

I've owned both a Dinan'd E60 550i and E60 M5, and regardless of their modded suspension bits, both were never nimble corner huggers. Until I drove a 335 and an M3 ... stock ... HUGE difference in handling responsiveness. Why? Less weight. 5s are tanks vs. the 3s. Power means nothing without control.

Agree with this. I had a 545i sport a few years back and an M6 now and the 335i is more confidence inspiring than either in the corners in my opinion. The 335i also has more than enough power for any situation.

Alright I apprecaite all the help, I think I'll go with the 335i. Here's another question though; would putting a chip in it wear the motor faster because I plan on owning this thing for about 4 years and putting around 75k miles on a car that will probably have around 60k miles on it to begin with.

Originally Posted by Skaggs1204

Alright I apprecaite all the help, I think I'll go with the 335i. Here's another question though; would putting a chip in it wear the motor faster because I plan on owning this thing for about 4 years and putting around 75k miles on a car that will probably have around 60k miles on it to begin with.

Any time you increase stress you can possibly reduce life of a part.

That said, I think there is a lot of room in the N54 for some boost that doesn't hurt too much. I've read of people running Cobb with stage 1 or stage 1+ aggressive for 80-100K miles with no issues.

Me, I'm running the Sport map, simply because with aggressive mode i get wheel spin from dead stops at stop lioghts, and sport is a nice middle ground. I can always bump it up to aggressive if I want...

Sport map is (IIRC) +14 boost, tapering down to about 11. Stock is 8 or 9.

For longevity/preventive momdifications, I'd strongly suggest an oil catch can. I put one on (a BSH) about 1000 miles ago. Using the dipstick, it didn't seem like it was doing much. So last week I took it out and emptied it, it had about 2.5 ounces of oil in it. Oil crud that would have ended up in the intercooler and on the back of the injectors. Also note I think I have a well-sealed set of pistons, I never have to replace oil between changes.

Originally Posted by Skaggs1204

Alright I apprecaite all the help, I think I'll go with the 335i. Here's another question though; would putting a chip in it wear the motor faster because I plan on owning this thing for about 4 years and putting around 75k miles on a car that will probably have around 60k miles on it to begin with.

Thoughtful question. Do chipped N54/55's often rev above 4k? N52 should be there much more often. The truth is, on public roads, dual turbos at their potential quickly invite official sanction. License suspended - Judge's gavel go bang!

So, chippin' worth your time? You betcha - every situation's enhanced, especially with meth. But we have to wonder: As a DD, would a chipped 335i see less wear than a N52? Possible that is the case.

Chip would naturally result in more wear than unchipped 335i - way too rewarding to put yer foot in it. Contradictory to above? Naw. I say N52's driven diff than N54/55.

.