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The Detail Department
Detailing tips, tricks to keep your bimmer in showroom condition.

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  #26  
Old 11-27-2011, 03:42 PM
Revelation19 Revelation19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Alan View Post
I'm not sure what this "real research" is you have conducted, but if you read the thread the resident detailing expert here has come to the same conclusion I offered. If rubbing oil on your coated seats make them feel better to you, that's great. All you can attest to is that rubbing oil on your seats make them feel softer to you, you cannot attest to the oil being absorbed into the leather.
As oil doesn't evaporate, the thick layer of oil that is applied to the Dakota Leather seats has to go somewhere (like into the leather). Simply contradicting a user's direct observation, doesn't discount such an attestation or support a "conclusion" that the oil is not absorbed by the leather. There's nothing like real-life testing to validate or invalidate a theory.
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2011, 06:39 AM
DetailDan DetailDan is offline
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I've done testing with a few leather conditioners and they do evaporate in a matter of minutes. Who knows how much is or is not absorbed by the leather in this time. I have not done this test with Leatherique however.
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2011, 08:35 AM
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Weaselboy Weaselboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation19 View Post
Simply contradicting a user's direct observation, doesn't discount such an attestation or support a "conclusion"...
I feel like I am back in Mr. Sargent's debate class.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2011, 08:56 AM
Munich77 Munich77 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation19 View Post
As oil doesn't evaporate, the thick layer of oil that is applied to the Dakota Leather seats has to go somewhere (like into the leather). Simply contradicting a user's direct observation, doesn't discount such an attestation or support a "conclusion" that the oil is not absorbed by the leather. There's nothing like real-life testing to validate or invalidate a theory.
I have noticed that my leather after treatment with lexol or the BMW conditioner is a bit softer.
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  #30  
Old 11-28-2011, 11:23 PM
Ilovemycar Ilovemycar is offline
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I've had subtle improvements with Leatherique on my Dakota seats, but it's been a while. When I did use it, I paid particular attention to the stitching, particularly at the bolsters of sports seats, for better horizontal penetration.

I agree that one doesn't get as much value from this product on Dakota, compared to when using it on other seats. I think the fastest absorption I've seen with this oil was on a LS400. It was faster than a Bounty paper towel commercial. (I'm sure this attribute is also dependent on the condition, but it was pretty remarkable to me.)

Regarding my opinion about the Optimum PP being smelly, I recently read someone else saying that it really is subtle, maybe like nothing. Now I suspect that the formula must have changed since I bought my bottle a couple of years ago, or whenever it was. I think my APC and Sonax FE might smell less offensive, though maybe not as as bad as my degreaser(s). Maybe I'll shoot an email, eventually, but for now, it's hard for me to bust out whatever is remaining. Not a joke, when I used PP extensively on any given car, I'd leave all the windows down, and all the doors open in the garage at least overnight, if not longer. That smelly!
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  #31  
Old 12-01-2011, 01:33 PM
thecushion thecushion is offline
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Zaino makes some great stuff!
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  #32  
Old 12-03-2011, 12:13 PM
Jaguar.lover Jaguar.lover is offline
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Lambskin leather is soft and supple to the touch. It is also a challenge when it comes to caring for it. Lambskin can be found in smooth and shearling varieties. Shearling is similar to suede and the smooth is fine grained and resembles a more traditional leather. Smooth lambskin very popular due to its very soft and pliable texture. The challenge is that lambskin is not very durable which makes caring for it a challenge. It can easily tear, scuff or scratch.
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  #33  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:56 AM
TOGWT TOGWT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar.lover View Post
Lambskin leather is soft and supple to the touch. It is also a challenge when it comes to caring for it. Lambskin can be found in smooth and shearling varieties. Shearling is similar to suede and the smooth is fine grained and resembles a more traditional leather. Smooth lambskin very popular due to its very soft and pliable texture. The challenge is that lambskin is not very durable which makes caring for it a challenge. It can easily tear, scuff or scratch.
Usually called 'Nappa'. See also "Types of Leather Used in Automobiles" - http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopia...ml#post1474058
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  #34  
Old 12-19-2011, 08:14 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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I had a Jaguar Mark IX Saloon with Connolly Leather upholstery. I used to treat it with Neatsfoot Oil. That was the finest leather I ever had in any car.

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Last edited by captainaudio; 12-21-2011 at 02:02 PM.
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  #35  
Old 03-31-2012, 06:50 PM
dmason dmason is offline
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I have 2 bmw's with Dakota leather. One is an 04 X5 4.4 with beige interior.
Recently my wife spilled some water on the back seat, which is rarely used. It absorbed into the leather in less than a minute and left a watermark. If the leather was coated, I don't think it would have happened, correct? Photo of stain attached, ignore shadow of the door.
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  #36  
Old 04-01-2012, 04:22 AM
TOGWT TOGWT is offline
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Generally speaking Dakota leathers come in very earthy natural colours, which has been aniline dyed or stained, which usually incorporate a small quantity of pigment (a thin clear sealant that provides a uniform colour and affords abrasion protection) but not so much as to conceal the natural characteristics or feel of the hide.
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  #37  
Old 04-05-2012, 08:31 AM
RBinDC RBinDC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation19 View Post
My Black Dakota Leather seats are treated annually with Leatherique. It is considered by some high-end detailing professionals to be the gold standard for leather conditioning. See the reviews, and also see the Ask-A-Pro Blog in the link, excellent information.
Leatherique's claim to fame is in restoring old leather. Isn't this stuff overkill for a relatively new Dakota leather that has not been abused?

I have been using the Zaino products on my 2011 335 and am happy with the results - especially the "new leather" scent the conditioner imparts.
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  #38  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:28 PM
Marktroy19 Marktroy19 is online now
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Coral red leather protection

I jus got a brand new 335i sedan with Coral Red Leather. Does anyone have any suggestions on what leather protectant I should use? Thanks.
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  #39  
Old 11-23-2012, 02:35 AM
TOGWT TOGWT is offline
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Originally Posted by Marktroy19 View Post
I jus got a brand new 335i sedan with Coral Red Leather. Does anyone have any suggestions on what leather protectant I should use? Thanks.
“Proper Finished Leather Cleaning and Care” - http://www.autopia.org/forum/guide-d...ning-care.html
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  #40  
Old 11-23-2012, 10:14 AM
Marktroy19 Marktroy19 is online now
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Thanks TOGWT. I'll check it out!
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  #41  
Old 11-23-2012, 10:23 AM
Marktroy19 Marktroy19 is online now
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TOGWT... What would you recommend as a leather protectant for my interior?
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  #42  
Old 11-24-2012, 02:42 AM
TOGWT TOGWT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation19 View Post
As oil doesn't evaporate, the thick layer of oil that is applied to the Dakota Leather seats has to go somewhere (like into the leather). Simply contradicting a user's direct observation, doesn't discount such an attestation or support a "conclusion" that the oil is not absorbed by the leather. There's nothing like real-life testing to validate or invalidate a theory.
The urethane coating can only be permeated by water vapour; the only means of ingress for oil is via the seams/stitching, from there it can get between the polyurethane coating and the leather hide causing delamination and/or permeating the seating foam
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  #43  
Old 11-24-2012, 02:45 AM
TOGWT TOGWT is offline
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Originally Posted by Marktroy19 View Post
TOGWT... What would you recommend as a leather protectant for my interior?
Protection - is essential as it will protect the surface finish (Leather Master™ - Protection Cream) as a sacrificial layer; this way you are not actually cleaning the Leather's original surface, but cleaning from the surface of the protection. It also makes dirt easier to clean off

With leather, it is much easier to practice prevention than it is to try to resolve major challenges after the fact. Leather Protection will also work to remove small surface scratches on finished leathers. In general, Leather Protection Cream is used as a final step in combination with most of the Leather Master products.


Leather Master™ - Protection Cream (a Scotchgard™ type product specifically formulated for lather) the polymers penetrate the surface of finished leather and cross-link to form a durable protective film that is breathable, allowing transpiration and keeps the leather supple. Being aqueous (water- based) it restores moisture to finished leather and provides a protective sacrificial barrier against all kinds of soiling, water, oil, alcohol-based stains and perspiration marks, so you are cleaning the protective layer

Ultra violet (UV) protection - 303® Aerospace Protectant - is water and will provide invaluable ultra violet (UV) radiation protection against photo degradation (fading) protection; especially in a roadster or convertible vehicles. It doesn’t contain silicones, so it won't attract and capture dust. You should apply to a clean surface (it doesn’t contain any cleaning agents)

It will not prevent finished leather hydration (transpiration and evaporation of moisture) as its water-based, although it coats the leather with a micro fine coating; it will not seal it per se.

Note: this product does NOT air dry. Use a second dry cloth to finish the application process. Extra buffing with at dry cloth increases bonding, repellence and durability
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  #44  
Old 11-24-2012, 02:48 AM
TOGWT TOGWT is offline
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Research

Correct information regarding the care of leather is scarce, often contradictory, misleading, or simply wrong. Misinformation can lead to inadvertent damage to your vehicles leather upholstery; my goal is to present clear, concise, accurate information.

There is a great deal of conflicting information on leather care being put out by leather experts themselves who recommend the same products and techniques be used regardless of the grade or the finish applied or use baffling pseudo scientific techno speak as another marketing ploy.

Furniture, Motorcycle, Equestrian and Automobile leather, all of which are have different type of leather finishes and require different care. You do need to understand some of the basic chemistry behind the tanning and be able to differentiate between the various finishes applied to automotive leather in able to understand how to renovate, clean or care for them, one size fits all is a vendor myth

All of which makes it difficult to find a definitive, unbiased answer. Using the correct product is important in order to protect your car's interior. If you keep your cars' interior clean, you can easily save your car for a good couple of years and it can stay in a 'like-new' condition, and maintain a better re-sale value. Cleanliness is one of the major things buyers look for when purchasing a vehicle.

There are a few different types of leather and several types of finishes applied to the leather used for vehicles upholstery. There are also a myriad of leather care products available, which need to be used in accordance to the type of and finish used in for your vehicles upholstery.

That is why it is imperative, that if you are concerned about the results you wish to achieve, you must perform a bit of research into finding the products suitable for your requirements.
After various meetings and discussions with leather tanners, their research and development teams, chemists and fat liquoring formulators and many leather care product manufacturers I've gained an understanding of this versatile material on both a practical and scientific level.

It had always confounded me that such a simple subject has been made into something so complicated. I have always thought that the more facts and information you have at hand the easier it is to judge what information you are being given. After all, how can you fully understand and properly use any product unless you have all the facts? In the final analysis; it's your vehicle, your hard earned money and your choice


Always keep in mind that you're dealing with the finished coating on the leather not with the leather hide itself

Everything you'll ever want to know about automotive leather upholstery – but were too afraid to ask: "Leather Articles Hyperlinks" http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopia...yperlinks.html

The information in these articles will enable you to restore your leather back to an original finish. Whether it's faded, has surface damage, stains, scratches or rips or you simply need it cleaned or rejuvenated, the methodologies and product recommendations will help to solve any leather problem you may have
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Last edited by TOGWT; 11-24-2012 at 04:36 AM.
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  #45  
Old 02-01-2013, 08:30 AM
edge9 edge9 is offline
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How about Novillo Leather?

I know that this link has been quiet for awhile now but I have a question regarding my Novillo leather in my 2013 M3. Novillo, to my understanding, is Spanish for calf. A previous post from 2009, TOGWT suspected that this leather was dyed and not likely treated with urethane. Here is TOGWT's post...

"" Premium Package with Novillo Extended leather: $3,100 (dealer price=$1830)

I would think for this price it would be Analine (non-polyurathane covered) leather

Natural leather (A-Aniline / Non-Coated) Aniline Leather is colored all the way through with a transparent dye. The effect is applied by immersing the leather in a dye bath. Because the finish is transparent and shows the natural markings of the leather, only top quality hides can be used. It has a random shade colors and grain pattern; lightly scratch the surface to see if it reveals a lighter color, water drops will darken its color (temporarily).

Cleaning
I would recommend Leather Master's water-based products for this leather type; Leather Soft Cleaner – (A-Aniline / Non-Coated) (P-Protected / Coated) Leather Soft Cleaner is a mild, water-based cleaner that will not affect the Leather’s original properties or finish. It is designed to remove most soiling as well as water-based stains. Leather Soft Cleaner is solvent free and works without removing the finish or harming the Leather.

Protecting Leather
A leather protection product (Leather Master Leather Protection (A-Aniline / Non-Coated) (P-Protected / Coated)) is essential as it will protect the surface finish and makes dirt easier to clean off. The latest technology leather upholstery does not make the interior "maintenance free," as some car dealerships imply.
Protection is an essential element in leather care, inhibiting abrasive dirt / grit, brought in from the outside via the A/C system and stains from being absorbed. Its primary purpose is to act as a barrier between the leather surface and any soils that may settle on it, making maintenance cleaning easier. ""


The water test I preformed on my back seat reveled beading with no visible absorption after 60 seconds, and, if I’m doing the nail test correctly, it does not show a different color. Does this rule out it being Aniline leather? Perhaps it might be the hybrid, that has the coating also?
I live in Arizona where UV and dry air are potential killers to leather. My concerns are fading, drying and degradation of the leather. So, my question is, if it was your car here in the desert what would you use to clean and protect the leather? Any specific recommendations regarding my high UV exposure? I know that the 303 Products Aerospace Protectant is highly regarded. Is that an option on this type of leather and what are the draw backs?
In addition to the leather in the interior, what would you recommend for cleaning and protecting the artificial surfaces like the dash? Especially in my high UV environment. Arizona like Florida is a state where some people actually protect their dash with carpet covers. I prefer to use good tinting and a front windshield shade.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for such a long post
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  #46  
Old 02-02-2013, 02:54 AM
TOGWT TOGWT is offline
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Size does matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation19 View Post
As oil doesn't evaporate, the thick layer of oil that is applied to the Dakota Leather seats has to go somewhere (like into the leather). Simply contradicting a user's direct observation, doesn't discount such an attestation or support a "conclusion" that the oil is not absorbed by the leather. There's nothing like real-life testing to validate or invalidate a theory.
Oil-based conditioners do not evaporate nor can they permeate finished leather. They can however permeate via its stitching to be absorbed into the upholstery foam. Some of this oil will remain on the surface; the problem will be exasperated as the oil will attract dirt/grime to the surface.

Modern leather needs to be kept hydrated with moisture to ensure the leather remains flexible and maintains its soft tactile feel. This is done by regularly wiping the surface with a damp 100% cotton micro fibre towel and by using aqueous (water- based) leather care products. There is no reason to use oil-based leather care products to condition or feed leather hides

Aqueous (water- based) products are able to permeate deep into the hide, unlike oil, due to its larger particles, whereas water particles are smaller than both oil and the molecules of urethane, which enables aqueous (water- based) products to permeate and provide hydration, which is essential for suppleness recovery.
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Last edited by TOGWT; 02-02-2013 at 03:10 AM.
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  #47  
Old 02-02-2013, 03:15 AM
TOGWT TOGWT is offline
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Edge9 this article may help-

TOGWT® Autopia Detailing Wiki - "Aniline Leather (Micro pigment) Cleaning and Care" - http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopia...ml#post1455011


If you have any questions about this article or the techniques used, please let me know or feel free to send me an email
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  #48  
Old 03-12-2013, 01:27 AM
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reytran reytran is offline
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I always use my fiance Coach leather cleaner and Moisturizer. Guess what? It's the best I believe. Leather surface becomes really clean and smooth. And yo don't get the oily shinny from the typical leather conditioner product.
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  #49  
Old 06-20-2013, 09:55 AM
monaco530i monaco530i is offline
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Dakota leather care

Has anybody hear treated their Dakota leather with Doc Bailey's leather restorer?
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  #50  
Old 06-20-2013, 07:25 PM
egb325 egb325 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGWT View Post
Protection - is essential as it will protect the surface finish (Leather Master™ - Protection Cream) as a sacrificial layer; this way you are not actually cleaning the Leather's original surface, but cleaning from the surface of the protection. It also makes dirt easier to clean off

With leather, it is much easier to practice prevention than it is to try to resolve major challenges after the fact. Leather Protection will also work to remove small surface scratches on finished leathers. In general, Leather Protection Cream is used as a final step in combination with most of the Leather Master products.


Leather Master™ - Protection Cream (a Scotchgard™ type product specifically formulated for lather) the polymers penetrate the surface of finished leather and cross-link to form a durable protective film that is breathable, allowing transpiration and keeps the leather supple. Being aqueous (water- based) it restores moisture to finished leather and provides a protective sacrificial barrier against all kinds of soiling, water, oil, alcohol-based stains and perspiration marks, so you are cleaning the protective layer

Ultra violet (UV) protection - 303® Aerospace Protectant - is water and will provide invaluable ultra violet (UV) radiation protection against photo degradation (fading) protection; especially in a roadster or convertible vehicles. It doesn't contain silicones, so it won't attract and capture dust. You should apply to a clean surface (it doesn't contain any cleaning agents)

It will not prevent finished leather hydration (transpiration and evaporation of moisture) as its water-based, although it coats the leather with a micro fine coating; it will not seal it per se.

Note: this product does NOT air dry. Use a second dry cloth to finish the application process. Extra buffing with at dry cloth increases bonding, repellence and durability

If I'm understanding correctly, I should use leather master's protection cream THEN follow that with 303 for protection + UV blocking?

Or are you saying use 303 instead of protection cream but only for roadsters whose seats are subjected to a lot more direct sun?

Last edited by egb325; 06-20-2013 at 07:27 PM.
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