Motor Trend comparo: 1st Cadillac ATS, 2nd C350, 3rd 335i

Originally Posted by woodswatchco

Good luck getting full trade on your car. The dealers are out of control these days. I was offered "rough book" value from four different dealers for my mint condition Audi A4. Evenfrom the Audi dealer to trade in on a new A4. I was told that the reason is that they all now go by "auction prices" instead of any book that is available to consumers. Such a joke.

Florida dealers have been playing that game for years. I think they call it the "Black Book". Most dealers that I've dealt with here in PA work off of KBB dealer trade prices for a clean well maintained car (aside from negotiating for the price of the new car). They will only offer auction prices for cars that are less desirable. If I were to sell my BMW, I would sell it to a private party. I also have the extended warranty which would make my car more desirable.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

I owned my E93 longer than you've owned yours, and I put 30,000 miles on mine while you struggle to get to 5,000 so please don't tell me who is an expert on its driving characteristics and who isn't.

Your car is a sporty-looking, tops-down family cruiser, nothing more. And, by the way, that's what BMW intended it to be. You can be a pretend Andretti in your Porsche.

BJ

BJ - You had the entry level E93 - underpowered - a car that couldn't get out of its own way, particularly with the leatherette no status option.
The 335i E93 is something you've never driven and you probably would be afraid of driving it.
I put mine thru its paces on the autobahns @ 150 mph and believe me you have no idea what you are talking about.

.*******>********>

*******>********>

Originally Posted by captainaudio

OMG our dirty little secret is out!

CA

OK, Who let the cat out of the bag?!

[QUOTE=UnderSteer;7212692

OK, Who let the cat out of the bag?! [/QUOTE]

You have an amazing collection of cars. How do you store them?

OK.

So let me get this straight.

Non F30 owners come in here and wax on about the E46 ZHP(have not driven it, cannot confirm Kool-aid worthy ness) and **** all over the driving dynamics of the F30(some of them without driving one).

Now I see reply after reply going on about the greatness of the E93 335is.

I am going to **** on your car now, cuz this must be fun for me too!

The E93 weights as much as a tank, it approaches 2 tons. The folding hardtop is pandering to non enthusiasts who sweat it on cars like SL's and SLK's. It did not make it a better car, just heavier and more complicated.

Stop touting it as some kind of drivers car.

My OLD E36/7 has tons of feel, feedback, sound, and has no driving aids other than ABS if you want to call it that. It's still heavy at 2950-3050lbs. But it's pure and nothing E9x without a roof can touch it. I am not even factoring in straight line as my 13lbs of boost has really skewed the equation. Looks, the E93 also gets slayed. I see them all day driven by women. My M Roadster was not even offered with an automatic and the lines, oh how well they have aged. I have had people ask me if it's "The new Z" semi-regularly.

So now I am going to go into every E93 thread I can find on every forum and **** on their cars compared to my OLD out of date car. This also applies to the newer Z4, I am going to go rag on their **** too.

I am going to feel so much better about myself now!

I am sure it will be much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

OK.

So let me get this straight.

Non F30 owners come in here and wax on about the E46 ZHP(have not driven it, cannot confirm Kool-aid worthy ness) and **** all over the driving dynamics of the F30(some of them without driving one).

Now I see reply after reply going on about the greatness of the E93 335is.

I am going to **** on your car now, cuz this must be fun for me too!

The E93 weights as much as a tank, it approaches 2 tons. The folding hardtop is pandering to non enthusiasts who sweat it on cars like SL's and SLK's. It did not make it a better car, just heavier and more complicated.

Stop touting it as some kind of drivers car.

My OLD E36/7 has tons of feel, feedback, sound, and has no driving aids other than ABS if you want to call it that. It's still heavy at 2950-3050lbs. But it's pure and nothing E9x without a roof can touch it. I am not even factoring in straight line as my 13lbs of boost has really skewed the equation. Looks, the E93 also gets slayed. I see them all day driven by women. My M Roadster was not even offered with an automatic and the lines, oh how well they have aged. I have had people ask me if it's "The new Z" semi-regularly.

So now I am going to go into every E93 thread I can find on every forum and **** on their cars compared to my OLD out of date car. This also applies to the newer Z4, I am going to go rag on their **** too.

I am going to feel so much better about myself now!

I am sure it will be much appreciated.

Whatever floats your boat, but, I thought the M Roadster was a "girls" car as they were the only ones who could fit comfortably? M Roadsters for the girls and Corvettes for the men!

We were also not comparing the 335is to an F30. BJ commented that his E93 328i was a pedestrian car and the same as the E93 335is.

Originally Posted by MMME30W

Not sure of Mr. Liebermans credibility; he appears to believe BMWs are designed in Stuttgart and MBZ in Munchen (5:52)

At any rate, agree that the Cue system is ridiculously unsafe. Seriously Cadillac? A movie playing on the idrive screen is verboten in motion in the US, but a system that allows a driver to 'almost crash twice' is ok? Wtf?

Can't commenting on the driving dynamics component of his two-element review, having driven none of these cars. However Mr Lieberman does not describe the driving experience like other test reviewers do that are familiar with a track.

Not sure I would use this review as a basis of determining which of these cars to buy, myself.

The guy did have some off beat comments, but you picked three things that showed you are really off yourself.

First, he intentionally switched the names of the two headquarters to joke about BMW and MB shamelessly copy each other's infotainment system designs.

Secondly, and this is the fault of all reviews regarding the Cadillac CUE. They did not realize there are buttons on the steering wheels, more importantly, the ATS has the most robust voice command system of all three. The CUE is designed to not have to use the touch screen, rather the steering wheel and voice, while you drive. It is of course GM's own fault not to emphasize such safety approach enough. Having said that, it is a wholesale change of the operation of the infotainment system, resistance is expected.

Thirdly, he is not the only one who has said the ATS has the edge in handling in this segment. In fact most reviewers agreed on the ATS being the best handling in the segment.

Originally Posted by MMME30W

Not sure of Mr. Liebermans credibility; he appears to believe BMWs are designed in Stuttgart and MBZ in Munchen (5:52)

You didn't get the joke he was making? He pretty clearly said that they all copy each other, so BMW design is based on what Benz is doing and vice versa.

I have never put down the F30 as I have never driven one. Even if I did my opinion would certainy carry no weight since the fact that I have an E93 (M3) that does not have an MT outs me as a non-enthusiast.

I am sure the F30 is a very good car but the fact of the matter is that a large number of professional car reviesers have commented that the F30 has lost a some of what they considered to be traditional BMW feel. Perhaps they are full of crap but I think this is a subject that warrants discussion as a significant number of people who drive E9x will be on the market for a new car in the near future and will certainly be looking at the F30 and its competitors.

As far as BJ's accusation the E90 drivers complain about F30, because they cannot afford the new one, as I have pointed out, BJ continued to brag about his F30 being cheaper than his previous E90, I don't know he is even aware that he is the cheapskate here

Originally Posted by beden1

Whatever floats your boat, but, I thought the M Roadster was a "girls" car as they were the only ones who could fit comfortably? M Roadsters for the girls and Corvettes for the men!

You're reaching.

I never said you were comparing the E93 to the F30. Read what I said again.

A base Z3 1.9 maybe lol.

M Roadsters were manual only, an indication of the intention/purpose of the car.

I wound up in court for the first time in many years over slaying a C6 vette who thought I would be an easy kill. It's hard to feel manly and superior when you get romped by an old BMW.

I fit comfortably as do plenty of people of decent height. If you are 6'4, well sucks that you can't fit lol.

Here, when a known DRIVER wants to demonstrate a DRIVER'S CAR, look at what he chooses.


You had no defense for your amazing E93. You can bring it or your 997 against my girly car any day.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

You're reaching.

A base Z3 1.9 maybe lol.

M Roadsters were manual only, an indication of the intention/purpose of the car.

I wound up in court for the first time in many years over slaying a C6 vette who thought I would be an easy kill. It's hard to feel manly and superior when you get romped by an old BMW.

I fit comfortably as do plenty of people of decent height. If you are 6'4, well sucks that you can't fit lol.

I am 6'4" and can't fit, although I imagine is it a fun car. I did try to drive a Z3 when they came out and my knees were hitting the dash.

The 335is convertible is also a fun car which I enjoy, but I did get the car so my wife could also drive and enjoy it.

I had added this piece to my previous post: We were also not comparing the 335is to an F30. BJ commented that his E93 328i was a pedestrian car and the same as the E93 335is.

Originally Posted by UnderSteer

I have never put down the F30 as I have never driven one. Even if I did my opinion would certainy carry no weight since the fact that I have an E93 (M3) that does not have an MT outs me as a non-enthusiast.

I am sure the F30 is a very good car but the fact of the matter is that a large number of professional car reviesers have commented that the F30 has lost a some of what they considered to be traditional BMW feel. Perhaps they are full of crap but I think this is a subject that warrants discussion as a significant number of people who drive E9x will be on the market for a new car in the near future and will certainly be looking at the F30 and its competitors.

That's all well and good.

It's fine if the F30 has lost a bit of that feedback.

But that can be said for EVERY generation since the E30.

I can find flaws in every car I have ever driven. It's ok.

But at least I have driven it, and or a lot of cars that it competes with before spouting my judgement.

Reading a magazine and then making statements of your own as fact is very annoying around here.

I am not saying you are doing it, but keep in mind between 2-3 forums there are 30 threads like these.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

You're reaching.

I never said you were comparing the E93 to the F30. Read what I said again.

A base Z3 1.9 maybe lol.

M Roadsters were manual only, an indication of the intention/purpose of the car.

I wound up in court for the first time in many years over slaying a C6 vette who thought I would be an easy kill. It's hard to feel manly and superior when you get romped by an old BMW.

I fit comfortably as do plenty of people of decent height. If you are 6'4, well sucks that you can't fit lol.

Here, when a known DRIVER wants to demonstrate a DRIVER'S CAR, look at what he chooses.


You had no defense for your amazing E93. You can bring it or your 997 against my girly car any day.

When I want to defend my car buying decisions, I would be happy to demonstrate with my Carrera GTS Cabriolet versus your M Roadster.

Also, the reviewer is demonstrating on an M Roadster, but I would bet he owns a Porsche.

Originally Posted by beden1

I am 6'4" and can't fit, although I imagine is it a fun car. I did try to drive a Z3 when they came out and my knees were hitting the dash.

The 335is convertible is also a fun car which I enjoy, but I did get the car so my wife could also drive and enjoy it.

I had added this piece to my previous post: We were also not comparing the 335is to an F30. BJ commented that his E93 328i was a pedestrian car and the same as the E93 335is.

There are plenty of great cars, Lotus Exige/Elise, Miatas, Caterhams, Cobras that you cannot fit in. It's not the cars fault lol.

A Z3 is a worlds away from an M-Roadster, isn't an E90 M3 a long way's away from an E90 328? So driving an 1.9 when it came out, or 2.8 holds no value in this conversation lol.

Again, BJ gets guys like you, he lures you into being defensive. You go for the bate. I never said you were comparing E93 IS to the F30. The point I was making, you are in this forum without owning the mark, have negative things to say(which is fine) but then get to wax on about the particular car you drive. My point is, I too can come to other sections and wax on about my out of date car. I think it looks silly, and I am sure that is how it would come across if I did it.

Originally Posted by beden1

When I want to defend my car buying decisions, I would be happy to demonstrate with my Carrera GTS Cabriolet versus your M Roadster.

Also, the reviewer is demonstrating on an M Roadster, but I would bet he owns a Porsche.

Your Carrera GTS has great steering feel and feedback and sure as hell should handle better than my old antiquated M Roadster.

However, when it comes to a straight line you are out of your league with a 500hp small car. I also get to work on it myself, pay almost nothing to ensure it, and know that I was able to pay cash(WHEN STILL YOUNG) and have all my hair so no one thinks it's my midlife crisis purchase.

I have a lot of years left before my 911 purchase comes, and if anything it's going to be a GT3 which I can do track days in. The Roadster is worth very little and almost irreplaceable so it will always be in my stable.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

There are plenty of great cars, Lotus Exige/Elise, Miatas, Caterhams, Cobras that you cannot fit in. It's not the cars fault lol.

A Z3 is a worlds away from an M-Roadster, isn't an E90 M3 a long way's away from an E90 328? So driving an 1.9 when it came out, or 2.8 holds no value in this conversation lol.

Again, BJ gets guys like you, he lures you into being defensive. You go for the bate. I never said you were comparing E93 IS to the F30. The point I was making, you are in this forum without owning the mark, have negative things to say(which is fine) but then get to wax on about the particular car you drive. My point is, I too can come to other sections and wax on about my out of date car. I think it looks silly, and I am sure that is how it would come across if I did it.

If you look back at the posts, BJ was the one who brought my "old" car into the conversation. I thought I had offered some pointed opinion beforehand.

As far as any Z BMW, I really don't know much about them as they were never on my radar screen. I do mostly see women driving them, however. But, I'm sure they are enthusiasts as well.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

Your Carrera GTS has great steering feel and feedback and sure as hell should handle better than my old antiquated M Roadster.

I also get to work on it myself, pay almost nothing to ensure it, and know that I was able to pay cash(WHEN STILL YOUNG) and have all my hair so no one thinks it's my midlife crisis purchase.

I have a lot of years left before my 911 purchase comes, and if anything it's going to be a GT3 which I can do track days in. The Roadster is worth very little and almost irreplaceable so it will always be in my stable.

"However, when it comes to a straight line you are out of your league with a 500hp small car." (I'm not sure what this means?)

So, you're only real argument is that I'm older (but, still have all of my hair) and buying cars to feed my mid-life crisis? How do you explain that I've had great cars since my mid 20's, and starting when I bought my first BMW?

Originally Posted by SARAFIL

You didn't get the joke he was making? He pretty clearly said that they all copy each other, so BMW design is based on what Benz is doing and vice versa.

Nope. Watch it again. No joke made. Just another clueless reviewer with a video camera.

Still, lot of click throughs for MT based on this article.

Must be a novelty for them.

James is winning this one.

Originally Posted by av98

You all do know that the 3 series the ATS was based on was the E46 right? Check out "Competitive Benchmarking" section in the link below.

Great thing is that BMW M Performance has products that can get you back to the older 3 series feel. It's a matter of time before they come out with a BMW M Performance package.

Indeed! Mr. Fiftysumpthin recapturing College days, arguably the most excellent in this life.

As offered: Student proceeding to degree

Option: M Performance Package - debonaire youth

Option: M3/4 - Summa Cum Laude; athelete

Originally Posted by justinnum1

James is winning this one.

James is playing out of his league.

Originally Posted by beden1

If you look back at the posts, BJ was the one who brought my "old" car into the conversation. I thought I had offered some pointed opinion beforehand.

As far as any Z BMW, I really don't know much about them as they were never on my radar screen. I do mostly see women driving them, however. But, I'm sure they are enthusiasts as well.

Again, don't you want to be the bigger person(especially at 6'4!)...your excuse is BJ bated you into defending your purchases. That means +1 for BJ right there. I have been here long enough to see how completely entertaining that is, I often read his replies with a smile on my face.

98% of all Z cars on the road are non M-cars. So yeah, mostly automatic equipped small engine cars driven by women(they are also popular with the gay community).

That's kind of par for the course. How many E90 328's driven by women are there compared to M cars of the same platform? That's kind of the point, you have exclusivity built in when opting for the M iteration. The M-Roadster has been selected by places like Hagarty as future collectibles and written up in mags when tested as a modern or German AC Cobra. It is a car that bites when things go wrong just like earlier 911's would. So there, a bit of education for you since you admit to knowing so little and never driven the car you refer to as a "girls" car.

Meanwhile I have driven an E92 335is, as well as many iterations of M and non M 3 series.

Originally Posted by beden1

"However, when it comes to a straight line you are out of your league with a 500hp small car." (I'm not sure what this means?)

So, you're only real argument is that I'm older (but, still have all of my hair) and buying cars to feed my mid-life crisis? How do you explain that I've had great cars since my mid 20's, and starting when I bought my first BMW?

My statement means, that my little girly car with 500hp would slay your 911 in terms of speed as much as your 911 kills it with it's sensory feedback and handling.

I grew up with 911's, my first job as a kid was pro detailer for a Porsche retailer. I get to speak from experience, not hyperbole.

My argument is not that you are older. It's when you bring the "My 911..." argument to the table. Unfortunately it brings with it the stereotypes of age with a 911. I do not own a 911 at my age, and you did not and would not either.

Originally Posted by beden1

James is playing out of his league.

You do not know what my league is. I may be younger than you, but I have serious automotive credentials and do not make it a habit of speaking about things I do not know about. This is something I am wondering you may not have mastered in your more advanced stage in life than myself.

Please do not think I am offended or lashing out or anything, I am just having a bit of fun exposing/noticing weak points in your statements.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

The E93 weights as much as a tank, it approaches 2 tons. The folding hardtop is pandering to non enthusiasts who sweat it on cars like SL's and SLK's. It did not make it a better car, just heavier and more complicated.

Too true! And that would be exactly 2 tons, mine.

But, I like the hard top - woulda bought a Porsche for much much much much much better handling & ride if not for it.

E93 also available as M3....still not a Porsche, but moves better, understatedly.

335i can get to 60 in skosh under 4 sec. Other benefits, modded.

Careful....


.