Motor Trend comparo: 1st Cadillac ATS, 2nd C350, 3rd 335i

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

Again, don't you want to be the bigger person(especially at 6'4!)...your excuse is BJ bated you into defending your purchases. That means +1 for BJ right there. I have been here long enough to see how completely entertaining that is, I often read his replies with a smile on my face.

98% of all Z cars on the road are non M-cars. So yeah, mostly automatic equipped small engine cars driven by women(they are also popular with the gay community).

That's kind of par for the course. How many E90 328's driven by women are there compared to M cars of the same platform? That's kind of the point, you have exclusivity built in when opting for the M iteration. The M-Roadster has been selected by places like Hagarty as future collectibles and written up in mags when tested as a modern or German AC Cobra. It is a car that bites when things go wrong just like earlier 911's would. So there, a bit of education for you since you admit to knowing so little and never driven the car you refer to as a "girls" car.

Meanwhile I have driven an E92 335is, as well as many iterations of M and non M 3 series.

Now who is baiting who?

Thank you for educating me on the BMW Z cars. Now I know that they are considered to be cars for women and gay people.

Originally Posted by beden1

James is playing out of his league.

James has scored a goal!

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

Too true! And that would be exactly 2 tons, mine.

But, I like the hard top - woulda bought a Porsche for much much much much much better handling & ride if not for it.

E93 also available as M3....still not a Porsche, but moves better, understatedly.

335i can get to 60 in skosh under 4 sec. Other benefits, modded.

Careful....

The E93 has plenty going for it. So does an F30. But people want to be sooo vocal about faults of one, well why not the other lol.

I assume your 0-60 quotes are modded and not stock.

Originally Posted by beden1

Now who is baiting who?

Thank you for educating me on the BMW Z cars. Now I know that they are considered to be cars for women and gay people.

Just having fun at your expense lol.

And yes, Z cars, just like many BMWs are purchased by women and people who like the Roundel. The M cars bring something different to the table. On my home forum and at meets, M Roadster and Coupe owners are some of the most helpful, knowledgeable and non ego maniacs I have ever encountered. This is the opposite of 90% of the rest of the community I have found over the years.

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

James has scored a goal!

Attachment 350740

It's Jameson...like the Whiskey. Just an FYI

Originally Posted by beden1

Now who is baiting who?

Thank you for educating me on the BMW Z cars. Now I know that they are considered to be cars for women and gay people.

Hard truth is: E93 has been touted as the Gay vehicle of choice.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

My statement means, that my little girly car with 500hp would slay your 911 in terms of speed as much as your 911 kills it with it's sensory feedback and handling.

I grew up with 911's, my first job as a kid was pro detailer for a Porsche retailer. I get to speak from experience, not hyperbole.

My argument is not that you are older. It's when you bring the "My 911..." argument to the table. Unfortunately it brings with it the stereotypes of age with a 911. I do not own a 911 at my age, and you did not and would not either.


You do not know what my league is. I may be younger than you, but I have serious automotive credentials and do not make it a habit of speaking about things I do not know about. This is something I am wondering you may not have mastered in your more advanced stage in life than myself.

Please do not think I am offended or lashing out or anything, I am just having a bit of fun exposing/noticing weak points in your statements.

You're right that I would have never owned a 911 when I was younger because I didn't like the stereotype who drove them. I wish now that I did as I probably would not have gone through so many cars trying to find the one that really feels right. After having the ZO6, I've learned that there can be too much power and that balance is what makes for a most enjoyable driving experience. No doubt like to have found with your M Roadster.

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

Hard truth is: E93 has been touted as the Gay vehicle of choice.

No, I thought that was the Miata and the Mini Cooper?

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

It's Jameson...like the Whiskey. Just an FYI

The inestimable Mr. Beden must be very specific if he expect a similar response.

There.

Originally Posted by beden1

No, I thought that was the Miata and the Mini Cooper?

The working Gay's ride.

Originally Posted by dtc100

The guy did have some off beat comments, but you picked three things that showed you are really off yourself.

First, he intentionally switched the names of the two headquarters to joke about BMW and MB shamelessly copy each other's infotainment system designs.

Secondly, and this is the fault of all reviews regarding the Cadillac CUE. They did not realize there are buttons on the steering wheels, more importantly, the ATS has the most robust voice command system of all three. The CUE is designed to not have to use the touch screen, rather the steering wheel and voice, while you drive. It is of course GM's own fault not to emphasize such safety approach enough. Having said that, it is a wholesale change of the operation of the infotainment system, resistance is expected.

Thirdly, he is not the only one who has said the ATS has the edge in handling in this segment. In fact most reviewers agreed on the ATS being the best handling in the segment.

Ill possibly give you points one and two. If he was joking, it was hard to tell.

The fact Mr. Lieberman didn't realize the controls were on the wheel and/or voice command underlines my point about his incompetence, no? So why does it make him an expert on vehicle dynamics if he can't be bothered to read the owners manual?

But yes I agree a recent C&D review I read stated the ATS handling was superior to the F30. They also trashed Cue IIRC.

Great points though.

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

The working Gay's ride.

So, an E93 for commuting to work, and a Miata, Mini Cooper or a Z car for the weekend jaunts?

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

The E93 has plenty going for it. So does an F30. But people want to be sooo vocal about faults of one, well why not the other lol.

I assume your 0-60 quotes are modded and not stock.

Surprised myself one weather perfect near sea level run in West Marin, scoring ~4 sec 0-60 stock.

Never duplicated. Not even close. The e-diff Gods smiled that day my friend.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Originally Posted by beden1

So, an E93 for commuting to work, and a Miata, Mini Cooper or a Z car for the weekend jaunts?

Cruisin' the 'Stro or Guerneville retreat.

Note: These are San Francisco designations.

Originally Posted by beden1

You're right that I would have never owned a 911 when I was younger because I didn't like the stereotype who drove them. I wish now that I did as I probably would not have gone through so many cars trying to find the one that really feels right. After having the ZO6, I've learned that there can be too much power and that balance is what makes for a most enjoyable driving experience. No doubt like to have found with your M Roadster.

The Z06 with a proper interior would be hard to beat. Your 911, yes it's the complete package but look at the price compared to the Z06 you had. If GM had an extra $20-30-40k to play with, imagine what could have been done.

Your right about balance. But again, come across as arrogant and lacking in knowledge when you make a statement about my car- a car you admit to never having driven.

Me, I have not driven a C6 Z06, only C5's and non Z06. I can only speak to what I know, which is like I said, the interior.

My supercharged car, it's reasonably low tq and power delivery means it's a beast when you want it to be and can be driven near stock by how you apply the throttle. It's VERY enjoyable and quite addictive, Viper power in a Miata sized package. I would say it's a sleeper, but the blower whine is a giveaway.

Input from someone who has recently been car shopping.....with an open mind.

I drove new leftover '11 E90 335i....fell in love with it.

They wouldn't lease the '11, so I drove 2012 F30 328. Meh. It was good "for a 4 banger"...but it needed that qualifying statement.

Dealer finally gets F30 335....back in love. Rocket ship. Tight handling. Quiet when it needs to be....beautiful music when you want it.

Read accolade after accolade about the ATS...wait and wait. Dealer finally gets one in. Much much better looking in person than in pics....but I am sorry - it still has too much "old man" aura about it....tied in with a pinch of "plastic-ey feel" that gives American cars such a bad reputation. The handling was quite good - but far from great.

I enjoyed getting back in my IS350 to leave the dealer....much more fun to drive than the ATS. Conversely....when I left the 335 test drive....I was yearning for a new car.

Drove A4....enjoyed the hell out of it....but their leases are similar to a 335....with 100 less HP. The leases on an S4 were not in the same realm as the BMW....by a long shot. (the Audis depreciate much faster....hence the larger payments)

MB wasn't in the picture - for me - I still think of old people when I think of Mercedes (just like Cadillac). I appreciate both brands....but I think both are fighting to change that image . Neither has won that battle yet. I am their demographic - 44 year old male.

Drove my IS350 (very under rated car) home and placed an order for a 335 Xdrive which is on the Rigel Leader as we speak.

Sold my Lexus and took my time in my research (2 months or so).

If you are a 'leaser' BMW is by far the best bang for the buck - IMHO. They depreciate the least of ALL the competition.....which makes for a more competitive lease. If I was buying the car....the S4 would have entered into the picture much more heavily.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

The Z06 with a proper interior would be hard to beat. Your 911, yes it's the complete package but look at the price compared to the Z06 you had. If GM had an extra $20-30-40k to play with, imagine what could have been done.

Your right about balance. But again, come across as arrogant and lacking in knowledge when you make a statement about my car- a car you admit to never having driven.

Me, I have not driven a C6 Z06, only C5's and non Z06. I can only speak to what I know, which is like I said, the interior.

My supercharged car, it's reasonably low tq and power delivery means it's a beast when you want it to be and can be driven near stock by how you apply the throttle. It's VERY enjoyable and quite addictive, Viper power in a Miata sized package. I would say it's a sleeper, but the blower whine is a giveaway.

GM already did the ZR1 which is $30K more than the ZO6. I actually preferred my ZO6 because it was more of a seat of your pants sports car, but the ZR1 on paper is hard to beat.

Originally Posted by beden1

You're right that I would have never owned a 911 when I was younger because I didn't like the stereotype who drove them. I wish now that I did as I probably would not have gone through so many cars trying to find the one that really feels right. After having the ZO6, I've learned that there can be too much power and that balance is what makes for a most enjoyable driving experience. No doubt like to have found with your M Roadster.

It occured to me
..

Your 911 so perfect...to you.

Plenty of people say after the 993 it went down hill.

So let those people come to your 997 forum and constantly tell you that.

Originally Posted by av98

Sadly, every sales person I drove with for any BMW test drive do confirm that potential buyers are more concerned about rear view cameras and the features of the NAV vs how the car drives. Guess that's what sells and is shaping BMW, sadly we will all be driving Lexus type cars in the future...

Aaaiiieeeeee!!! Not a Lexus!! Please say it ain't so!!!!!!

My contribution to the conversation is that there's a huge difference between the ride of my 325 and the new car. I loved the first one simply because I was all about the drive and less about having a fancy dashboard. The ride was low to the ground, sporty, nimble and a blast to drive. I never bought it because I wanted a luxury car.

The new one is a huge step up in terms of comfort but I still wouldn't call it a luxury car. Yes, the steering is softer. It's slightly longer and wider and sits an inch or two higher but I'm still thinking about what the performance on the road is going to be vs: having every possible creature comfort inside.

I have to agree with what BJ said. They are building cars to appeal to their customer base.
They know what they are doing.

side note: The guy in the review falls much more into the "hipster douche" category than the "motor head" or "enthusiast" category. I give him zero credibility. He drove the cars on different days (different shirt on in different cars). He probably had too much Hummus in his egg white and tofurky omelette on the day he drove the Bimmer

The Carlos Lago Motor Trend Review on You Tube is much more in tune with reality

Originally Posted by Slick Willy

Input from someone who has recently been car shopping.....with an open mind.

I drove new leftover '11 E90 335i....fell in love with it.

They wouldn't lease the '11, so I drove 2012 F30 328. Meh. It was good "for a 4 banger"...but it needed that qualifying statement.

Dealer finally gets F30 335....back in love. Rocket ship. Tight handling. Quiet when it needs to be....beautiful music when you want it.

Read accolade after accolade about the ATS...wait and wait. Dealer finally gets one in. Much much better looking in person than in pics....but I am sorry - it still has too much "old man" aura about it....tied in with a pinch of "plastic-ey feel" that gives American cars such a bad reputation. The handling was quite good - but far from great.

I enjoyed getting back in my IS350 to leave the dealer....much more fun to drive than the ATS. Conversely....when I left the 335 test drive....I was yearning for a new car.

Drove A4....enjoyed the hell out of it....but their leases are similar to a 335....with 100 less HP. The leases on an S4 were not in the same realm as the BMW....by a long shot. (the Audis depreciate much faster....hence the larger payments)

MB wasn't in the picture - for me - I still think of old people when I think of Mercedes (just like Cadillac). I appreciate both brands....but I think both are fighting to change that image . Neither has won that battle yet. I am their demographic - 44 year old male.

Drove my IS350 (very under rated car) home and placed an order for a 335 Xdrive which is on the Rigel Leader as we speak.

Sold my Lexus and took my time in my research (2 months or so).

If you are a 'leaser' BMW is by far the best bang for the buck - IMHO. They depreciate the least of ALL the competition.....which makes for a more competitive lease. If I was buying the car....the S4 would have entered into the picture much more heavily.

We own a 2011 S4 and it is a great car. I don't agree that they depreciate faster than the 3 Series BMW because Audi does not make many of them. BMW subsidizes leases by providing a higher residual which is the reason why you get cheaper lease rates. Audi does not.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

It occured to me
..

Your 911 so perfect...to you.

Plenty of people say after the 993 it went down hill.

So let those people come to your 997 forum and constantly tell you that.

From what I can tell from spending time in that forum, the 993 enthusiasts feel the air cooled Porsches were the last real Porsches. The 997.2 owners know better.

The same conversations are happening over there between the 997.2 and the new 991 models. The 991 models are considered to be softer like the F30.

Originally Posted by beden1

We own a 2011 S4 and it is a great car. I don't agree that they depreciate faster than the 3 Series BMW because Audi does not make many of them. BMW subsidizes leases by providing a higher residual which is the reason why you get cheaper lease rates.

I wouldn't argue with that at all....the residuals are what I based my logic on. If BMW is subsidizing, then yay!!! for us, the consumer, because like I said....Audi wasn't even close in the lease competition.

I think the S4 is a fantastic car....easily the best competition to the 335.

Cadillac designed the compact ATS to compete with the BMW 3 Series, but GM says the new Caddy is also cutting into CTS sales. Edmunds.com backs that up with data showing potential buyers are cross-shopping the ATS with the CTS as well as the BMW.

Automotive News spoke to the head of Cadillac sales, Chase Hawkins, who admits The General expected the ATS to cannibalize sales of the CTS. But Hawkins says a plan is in place to deal with the drop in CTS sales: make fewer of them.

"We've planned for ATS to take some CTS customers out of the market who we otherwise would have seen," Hawkins tells AN. "We definitely are going to be producing fewer CTSes next year to create some of that space for ATS."

The next-generation CTS is expected to be larger and costlier, which should better separate the two stablemates in the marketplace. As the two models find their own niches, AN speculates a few more import buyers to come back to the iconic American brand.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/25/c...ll-cut-output/