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BMW Coding and Programming
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  #1  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:09 PM
ahmadr ahmadr is offline
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high beam camera same as SLI / LDW / KaFAS?

Does anyone know, on the f30, whether the automatic high beam assist camera is the same as the SLI (Speed Limit Info) / LDW (Lane Departure Warning) / KaFAS module?

If not, I'll have to scrap my dream of getting SLI / LDW through coding

BTW, I searched realoem.com, but can't find the high beam camera:

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...80&hg=51&fg=40

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...58&hg=66&fg=05
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2012, 07:30 PM
snj1013 snj1013 is offline
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Isn't the High Beam sensor the little white square sensor on the back side of the rear view mirror?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmadr View Post
Does anyone know, on the f30, whether the automatic high beam assist camera is the same as the SLI (Speed Limit Info) / LDW (Lane Departure Warning) / KaFAS module?

If not, I'll have to scrap my dream of getting SLI / LDW through coding

BTW, I searched realoem.com, but can't find the high beam camera:

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...80&hg=51&fg=40

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...58&hg=66&fg=05
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  #3  
Old 11-22-2012, 07:52 PM
ahmadr ahmadr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj1013 View Post
Isn't the High Beam sensor the little white square sensor on the back side of the rear view mirror?
No, that's for the auto dimming mirror
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmadr View Post
Does anyone know, on the f30, whether the automatic high beam assist camera is the same as the SLI (Speed Limit Info) / LDW (Lane Departure Warning) / KaFAS module?

If not, I'll have to scrap my dream of getting SLI / LDW through coding

BTW, I searched realoem.com, but can't find the high beam camera:

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...80&hg=51&fg=40

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...58&hg=66&fg=05
Automatic High Beams (AHB) uses the same Camera as Lane Departure Warning (LDW) and Speed Limit Info (SLI).

You need to read this post:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ight=high+beam
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  #5  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:20 PM
ahmadr ahmadr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
Automatic High Beams (AHB) uses the same Camera as Lane Departure Warning (LDW) and Speed Limit Info (SLI).

You need to read this post:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ight=high+beam
Thanks. I've read that, but is the f30 the same as the f10?
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  #6  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmadr View Post
Thanks. I've read that, but is the f30 the same as the f10?
They are the same in that the Camera used is the same for AHB, LDW, and SLI, and the KAFAS Coding, if not identical will be very similar.

As I wrote there, besides adding 8TD and 8TH to the VO and coding the car, I am almost positive SLI requires an FSC code, which is why I don't think anyone has succeeded at this.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2012, 02:15 AM
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I can confirm that SLI does require an FSC code to activate.
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2012, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdimagineer View Post
I can confirm that SLI does require an FSC code to activate.
Do you have SLI on your M5?
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2012, 03:25 AM
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I do. It was part of the Driver Assistance package. But discussing my attempt to enable SLI on my 550 with my tech at the dealer he mentioned this.
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2012, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdimagineer View Post
I do. It was part of the Driver Assistance package. But discussing my attempt to enable SLI on my 550 with my tech at the dealer he mentioned this.
Can you go into E-Sys, Comfort Mode, FSC, and run Check FSC Status, and send me the output?
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  #11  
Old 11-23-2012, 03:30 AM
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Sure. I'll grab it tomorrow.
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  #12  
Old 11-23-2012, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdimagineer View Post
Sure. I'll grab it tomorrow.
Thanks!

You back East for the holidays, or just forget to go to sleep?
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  #13  
Old 11-26-2012, 02:42 PM
ahmadr ahmadr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
They are the same in that the Camera used is the same for AHB, LDW, and SLI, and the KAFAS Coding, if not identical will be very similar.

As I wrote there, besides adding 8TD and 8TH to the VO and coding the car, I am almost positive SLI requires an FSC code, which is why I don't think anyone has succeeded at this.
I see. If I understand correctly, it would be the same case for adding LDW or even collision avoidance. Please correct me if I'm wrong. BTW, my car only has AHB, blind spot, and top/rear/side view cameras.

Thanks
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  #14  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:06 PM
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I'm not 100% sure it's the same camera. I saw a BMW 7 Series LCI at the SF Auto Show the other day. It did not have a driver assistance package (LDW, etc.), just AHB. It was a separate camera mounted at the base of the mirror - not the "KAFAS" camera referenced above.

This is the standalone HBA camera:


This is the KAFAS camera [representation only], that can do HBA, collision avoidance, LDW, SLI, etc. It's wedge-shaped and mounted above the mirror:


Crazy enough, I've also seen cars with both with some early models.
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2012, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmadr View Post
I see. If I understand correctly, it would be the same case for adding LDW or even collision avoidance. Please correct me if I'm wrong. BTW, my car only has AHB, blind spot, and top/rear/side view cameras.

Thanks
No, not the same. If you have AHB, and you want SLI, you shouldn't need any additional hardware, but you do need an expensive FSC Code. SLI also requires Nav as it uses both the KAFAS Camera imagery and data from the Nav System. If you want to add LDW though, it does not require an expensive FSC Code, and you can code it to where it is always on, at least on the F10 you can, however, you really need to add the dash control switch and the vibration module / steering wheel to be OEM proper. So, one requires an FSC Code, and the other Requires some additional hardware.
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  #16  
Old 11-26-2012, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdimagineer View Post
This is the standalone HBA camera:
Are you sure that is a standalone HBA Camera? I think it is something else. I do not think HBA exists without KAFAS camera.
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  #17  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:13 AM
ahmadr ahmadr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdimagineer View Post
This is the standalone HBA camera:
Hmmm... The camera hanging down from the mirror is exactly how mine looks like... Definitely not the wedge shaped camera shown on the second picture (also on the realoem.com link on the 1st post)
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  #18  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:58 AM
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@shawn: Yep. As ahmadr just confirmed, the HBA-only camera is different. It's designed solely to measure lighting and cannot do shape/number recognition. Without KAFAS, retrofitting LDW, SLI, etc. is impossible.
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  #19  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:58 AM
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I have the KAFAS camera on my F30 with AHB, SLI, LDW and whatnot, it looks like this (my apologies for the crappy pictures, it was morning, the sun was in a weird position and I have pretty dirty windows lol):



The other camera (with the cam on the bottom) looks a bit like how it is with the F30 of a friend of mine, he does have AHB but no SLI or LDW. The camera/sensor housing on my car is almost twice, if not triple, the size of that of my friend's F30.

Btw, doesn't LDW also make use of the sensors/radar on the rear and side of the car? Taken from the BMW website (here (I know this article is for a 5 series but it should work all the same)):

Quote:
At the rear of the vehicle the Lane Change Warning uses radar sensors to inform the driver via a symbol on the wing mirror if there is a vehicle currently in their blind spot or if a vehicle is approaching quickly from the rear. As soon as the driver uses the indicator to change lanes, they are warned in potentially dangerous situations by a flashing LED signal and vibrations.

The camera positioned at the front of the vehicle assists the Lane Departure Warning system. At speeds above 70 km/h it monitors the edge of the road and the markings so that even before the vehicle unintentionally leaves its lane, the system issues a warning to the driver by making the steering wheel vibrate. Indicating deactivates this technology from BMW ConnectedDrive while the driver is turning off or changing lanes. The built-in collision warning serves as an attentive driving assistant and offers added safety: in a two-step process, it warns the driver of a possible collision if a vehicle ahead of him brakes suddenly.
It says the LDW gets 'assisted' by the camera, so (and I'm totally guessing here) couldn't that mean that it is just a part of a bigger system? And with that, isn't it possible the SLI is also part of that bigger system?

I have no idea why the systems are not the same but I do know that there is a big difference in camera(housings) between the F30's that are only equipped with AHB and those who have SLI, LDW, Collision Warning and so on. It could have something to do with the system as a whole, or maybe more simple as in cost-reducing since AHB is fairly common while the driver assistance package isn't
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Last edited by svache; 11-27-2012 at 10:59 AM.
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  #20  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:04 AM
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There are two technologies, and both are options. We get them as part of a package but in other markets you can opt for Lange Change Warning, Lane Departure Warning, or both. However both rely on KAFAS. In both KAFAS monitors lane markings to determine if you're drifting or changing lanes, and then in the case of LCW, uses the rear sensors to determine if there's another vehicle next to you.

In earlier generation cars, you could actually have BOTH cameras (KAFAS and AHB) depending on your packages, but KAFAS has improved now to where only a single camera is required if you have the options.

Unfortunately with just AHB, the KAFAS module is too expensive so they still use the standalone camera.
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  #21  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:18 PM
ahmadr ahmadr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdimagineer View Post
There are two technologies, and both are options. We get them as part of a package but in other markets you can opt for Lange Change Warning, Lane Departure Warning, or both. However both rely on KAFAS. In both KAFAS monitors lane markings to determine if you're drifting or changing lanes, and then in the case of LCW, uses the rear sensors to determine if there's another vehicle next to you.
LCW doesn't need the KAFAS camera, just the two K-band sensors in the rear bumper. In fact, my car has LCW.
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdimagineer View Post
@shawn: Yep. As ahmadr just confirmed, the HBA-only camera is different. It's designed solely to measure lighting and cannot do shape/number recognition. Without KAFAS, retrofitting LDW, SLI, etc. is impossible.
Well, I am sure early F10's with AHB only had the standard KAFAS camera only, and people did retrofit LDW. I wonder now what the F10 uses with AHB Only? I guess BMW figured out a cheaper way to do it, or got wind of people enabling LDW and SLI, and took preventive measures.
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  #23  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:22 PM
ahmadr ahmadr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svache View Post
I have the KAFAS camera on my F30 with AHB, SLI, LDW and whatnot, it looks like this
...
The other camera (with the cam on the bottom) looks a bit like how it is with the F30 of a friend of mine, he does have AHB but no SLI or LDW. The camera/sensor housing on my car is almost twice, if not triple, the size of that of my friend's F30.
Thanks. This picture seals the deal - the KAFAS camera is indeed different than the AHB one on the F30.

BTW, The other thing one can see there is the IR transmitter / receiver for the rain sensing wipers. I have it too.
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  #24  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
Well, I am sure early F10's with AHB only had the standard KAFAS camera only, and people did retrofit LDW. I wonder now what the F10 uses with AHB Only? I guess BMW figured out a cheaper way to do it, or got wind of people enabling LDW and SLI, and took preventive measures.
IIRC, the F25 X3 also uses the KAFAS module for AHB
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  #25  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:39 PM
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You're correct. I misspoke.

And it all depends on the model whether they use KAFAS or not. There might be a technical or visibility reason in the F25.
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