Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:30 PM
pharding pharding is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,021
Mein Auto: 11 550i
Navigation Maps Update for $500

I would like to get the latest version of the navigation maps. The price that I was quoted was approximately $500 with the maps, installation and tax. If this is correct, it is really outrageous.
__________________
04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:37 PM
Needsdecaf's Avatar
Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
Everything's Bigger in TX
Location: The Woodlands, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,106
Mein Auto: 2007 MDX
It is correct. The maps are like $15. The code to activate them is about $100. The rest is the labor they charge since it takes 3-4 hours to download them.

You can buy the maps at the dealer and the code for under $100 (or so, IIRC) from one of our European friends on here. Then just do it yourself.
__________________
2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:33 PM
BMW_F1 BMW_F1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Northern California (SF Bay Area)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 433
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 535iGT
Apparently you can do it yourself now: http://navigation.teleatlas.com/bmwusa

The cost is $245 and from the description they will send a USB drive with the maps, the page also asks for your VIN. This would presumably be used to create the FSC code.
__________________
Current:
2014 BMW X5 xDrive 35d- Space Gray-Canberra Beige Dakota Leather-Fineline Oak Wood Trim-ZDA/ZCW/417/4FF/4NB/5DL/688
2013 BMW 535i GT- Neptune Blue-Venetian Beige Dakota Leather-Fineline Matte Wood Trim-ZCW/ZVP/2ST/3AG/416/677

Former BMW's:
2010 BMW X5 xDrive 48i / 2005 BMW X5 30i / 2003 BMW 745Li
2001 BMW X5 30i / 1995 BMW 525i
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-21-2012, 01:14 AM
Ace535i's Avatar
Ace535i Ace535i is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA, Pacific Time
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,359
Mein Auto: I'm still dreaming....
Should one buy now or Spring 2013?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-21-2012, 04:45 AM
Jack the cat Jack the cat is online now
Jack the cat
Location: Tennessee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 91
Mein Auto: 2011 535i
I had the dealer update mine from 2010 to 2011. There was no meaningful improvement in map coverage or routing intelligence (?). And it cost $650 for the dealer to do the install. From other threads, there is a relatively wide range of prices, depending on the dealer. But all are outrageous.

There is a complete thread on DIY for this. While the thread is long, there is a good explanation at #138. See link.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=540474&page=2
__________________
2011 535i - Imperial Blue Metallic / Venetian Beige Dakota Leather / Light Wood Trim - Premium 1&2 - Smartphone integration
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-21-2012, 05:19 AM
ND40oz ND40oz is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 601
Mein Auto: 09 135i
Tischer has it for $235 for the CIC updates: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=659278

Looks like they also added the ability to just get the media on USB if you want to get an FSC code from somewhere else.
__________________
09 135i 6MT, ZMP, PPK1
13 X5 35i ZMP, ZMX, 2VA
13 Tiguan SEL 4motion

Last edited by ND40oz; 11-21-2012 at 05:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-21-2012, 07:06 PM
pharding pharding is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,021
Mein Auto: 11 550i
My service adviser looked further into this. His information was out of date. Now one buys the software and a USB drive from the local BMW Center. The client is given a code and downloads the software on a USB drive purchased from the BMW center. I have no idea why one would need to buy the USB drive from the BMW center.
__________________
04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-26-2012, 06:31 AM
CC Brown CC Brown is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 171
Mein Auto: S430
I ordered last Weds from this site. http://navigation.teleatlas.com/bmwusa

From what I can tell; this how you get a map update now. This site looks like it is owned by TomTom but is only for BMW around the world.

I want to see if the code key is imbedded on the USB drive or shipped with the drive. I would like to use the map for another car. I know I can get a key for less than the cost of this combination.

I did try to find a way to order the maps on a CD but I could not find a site that recognized the maps part number I used before.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-26-2012, 02:11 PM
dpritchett dpritchett is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Lynchburg, VA
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 524
Mein Auto: 2011 528i Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Brown View Post
I ordered last Weds from this site. http://navigation.teleatlas.com/bmwusa

From what I can tell; this how you get a map update now. This site looks like it is owned by TomTom but is only for BMW around the world.

I want to see if the code key is imbedded on the USB drive or shipped with the drive. I would like to use the map for another car. I know I can get a key for less than the cost of this combination.

I did try to find a way to order the maps on a CD but I could not find a site that recognized the maps part number I used before.
Please update us when you get your shipment.
__________________
2011 528i (ED 6/1/11; USA p/u 7/23/11) Space Grey / Black / Light Wood / Sport Auto / HUD / Packages:Premium & Premium 2 / Sport / Drivers Asst

2006 325xi / Sparkling Graphite / Terra / Walnut/ Steptronic /Premium Package - Nav / Xenons || iPod Adapter | Blacklines (retired 5-1-2014)

Last edited by dpritchett; 11-28-2012 at 08:29 AM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-26-2012, 02:54 PM
Technic's Avatar
Technic Technic is offline
Test... 1, 2 ,3
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,882
Mein Auto: 2012 M3 - 2014 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Brown View Post
I ordered last Weds from this site. http://navigation.teleatlas.com/bmwusa

From what I can tell; this how you get a map update now. This site looks like it is owned by TomTom but is only for BMW around the world.

I want to see if the code key is imbedded on the USB drive or shipped with the drive. I would like to use the map for another car. I know I can get a key for less than the cost of this combination.

I did try to find a way to order the maps on a CD but I could not find a site that recognized the maps part number I used before.
The code is sent in a pdf document via email or with the USB purchase. The code is entered manually when prompted.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-26-2012, 06:07 PM
CC Brown CC Brown is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 171
Mein Auto: S430
Well I don't know how the code is sent. My guess is BMW is tired of people illegally generating FSC codes and selling them. Plus they are not selling CD's of the maps for $8 like they did last year as far as I can tell. My belief is they are trying to close that revenue loophole and get $245 from folks because people don't want to pay the outrageous prices they were charging-$400+ . If they are going to close the loophole they might imbed the code inside the map some way.

Not sure how they will do this for when I updated last year from a CD I bought from BMW for $14 I entered a code right at the beginning of the installation. We will see.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-27-2012, 07:51 PM
shawnsheridan's Avatar
shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, TX
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,730
Mein Auto: 2011 535i M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Brown View Post
Well I don't know how the code is sent. My guess is BMW is tired of people illegally generating FSC codes and selling them. Plus they are not selling CD's of the maps for $8 like they did last year as far as I can tell. My belief is they are trying to close that revenue loophole and get $245 from folks because people don't want to pay the outrageous prices they were charging-$400+ . If they are going to close the loophole they might imbed the code inside the map some way.

Not sure how they will do this for when I updated last year from a CD I bought from BMW for $14 I entered a code right at the beginning of the installation. We will see.
They are apparently not selling the DVD Media only version anymore, but instead you can get the USB Media Version only. So it is now $42 instead of $11. You can buy an FSC Code for $50, and be upgraded for around $100 net.
__________________

- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-27-2012, 07:55 PM
Ace535i's Avatar
Ace535i Ace535i is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA, Pacific Time
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,359
Mein Auto: I'm still dreaming....
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
They are apparently not selling the DVD Media only version anymore, but instead you can get the USB Media Version only. So it is now $42 instead of $11. You can buy an FSC Code for $50, and be upgraded for around $100 net.
Is all this accomplished through the BMW web site, or by other means?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-27-2012, 08:01 PM
shawnsheridan's Avatar
shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, TX
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,730
Mein Auto: 2011 535i M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace535i View Post
Is all this accomplished through the BMW web site, or by other means?
I ordered the 2013 USB Media Only version from Tischer BMW for $42.20:

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...gid=4462&tab=1

Hit the Drop Down box to get the USB option.

Now for the FSC Code, you can buy that too from BMW for a couple hundred dollars, or get a generated one for $50.
__________________

- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-27-2012, 08:27 PM
Ace535i's Avatar
Ace535i Ace535i is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA, Pacific Time
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,359
Mein Auto: I'm still dreaming....
And the generated code....

Last edited by Ace535i; 11-27-2012 at 08:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-01-2012, 06:22 PM
Baquir Baquir is offline
BimmerLover
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 138
Mein Auto: 2012 528xi
Has anyone upgraded yet?
Have a 2012 F10 and wondering if there are any significant upgrades.

Anyone know if the upgrades include the improved traffic re-route shown in TV ads.
__________________


Current: 2012 528xi. Delivery date 03/13/2012.
Dark Graphite Metallic / Oyster-Black interior. Cold Weather / Premium / Technology pkg. BMW Apps. Rear fold down seats.

Prior: 2005 530i. Cold weather/Premium Pkg
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-01-2012, 06:30 PM
shawnsheridan's Avatar
shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, TX
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,730
Mein Auto: 2011 535i M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baquir View Post
Has anyone upgraded yet?
Have a 2012 F10 and wondering if there are any significant upgrades.

Anyone know if the upgrades include the improved traffic re-route shown in TV ads.
I have.

I haven't noticed any difference yet, although I have not driven it much either since upgrading.
__________________

- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:02 PM
pharding pharding is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,021
Mein Auto: 11 550i
I did the upgrade which just came out.

Key information:
BMW 0n-Board Navigation System
Digital Road Map for North America
USB North America Premium 65 90 2 338 094
2013 Version 1A
The maps are by Tom Tom
A 32 GB USB drive has the maps on it. It is contained in a nice PVC case.
The BMW Center submits your VIN Number to BMW. They receive a Map Certificate that is given to the customer. It has a release code for your vehicle.
You insert the USB drive into USB outlet on the right side of your glove box. When the car recognizes the USB it prompts you for a code. You enter the code and and the software starts loading. It takes approximately 30 minutes. Once started you can drive while it loads. If you turn off the car while loading, it starts up again when you restart the car. Very cool.
After loading the maps, you remove the thumb drive and reuse it for another purpose.
Price approximately $220 plus tax.

Routing is better and it better identifies streets/roads with less traffic. For me it is worth the price.
__________________
04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired

Last edited by pharding; 12-01-2012 at 07:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:10 PM
shawnsheridan's Avatar
shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, TX
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,730
Mein Auto: 2011 535i M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
I did the upgrade which just came out.

Key information:
BMW 0n-Board Navigation System
Digital Road Map for North America
USB North America Premium 65 90 2 338 094
2013 Version 1A
The maps are by Tom Tom
A 32 GB USB drive has the maps on it. It is contained in a nice PVC case.
The BMW Center submits your VIN Number to BMW. They receive a Map Certificate that is given to the customer. It has a release code for your vehicle.
You insert the USB drive into USB outlet on the right side of your glove box. When the car recognizes the USB it prompts you for a code. You enter the code and and the software starts loading. It takes approximately 30 minutes. Once started you can drive while it loads. If you turn off the car while loading, it starts up again when you restart the car. Very cool.
After loading the maps, you remove the thumb drive and reuse it for another purpose.
Price approximately $220 plus tax.

Routing is better and it better identifies streets/roads with less traffic. For me it is worth the price.
Or you could buy the same USB Media version without the FSC Code only for $42, and an FSC Code from "The FSC Code Man" for $50, and be done for under $100.
__________________

- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips

Last edited by shawnsheridan; 12-04-2012 at 08:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:32 PM
shawnsheridan's Avatar
shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, TX
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,730
Mein Auto: 2011 535i M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace535i View Post
And the generated code....
It is generated based on the 1B Nav FSC Code in your CIC and your short VIN, so it is car specific. There is no universal FSC Code.
__________________

- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:00 PM
shawnsheridan's Avatar
shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, TX
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,730
Mein Auto: 2011 535i M-Sport
Here is what your $42 buys you.

Click image for larger version

Name:	2013%20BMW%20Navigation%20Update%20Media%20%20-%20USB%20-%20Case%20-%20Outside.jpg
Views:	199
Size:	85.6 KB
ID:	351687 Click image for larger version

Name:	2013%20BMW%20Navigation%20Update%20Media%20%20-%20USB%20-%20Case%20-%20Inside.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	54.8 KB
ID:	351686
__________________

- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:34 PM
Needsdecaf's Avatar
Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
Everything's Bigger in TX
Location: The Woodlands, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,106
Mein Auto: 2007 MDX
Shawn, I see the note on the bottom of that literature abou a pre-9/09 build date. Will it work with non-combos cars?
__________________
2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:53 PM
shawnsheridan's Avatar
shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, TX
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,730
Mein Auto: 2011 535i M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Shawn, I see the note on the bottom of that literature abou a pre-9/09 build date. Will it work with non-combos cars?
Yes, Combox is not at all related. I have not figured out why it states that CIC <= 09/2009 won't work via USB. I know several people with builds much older (e.g. 09/2008), and as long as you have a CIC and USB Port in the Glovebox, it seems to work just fine.
__________________

- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-02-2012, 04:35 AM
pharding pharding is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,021
Mein Auto: 11 550i
My 5er is non-combox and the maps upgrade worked fine.
__________________
04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-02-2012, 06:24 AM
shawnsheridan's Avatar
shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, TX
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,730
Mein Auto: 2011 535i M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
My 5er is non-combox and the maps upgrade worked fine.
Just curious, what is your actual build date? Are you <= 09/2009?
__________________

- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms