i3: what will it cost?

"They" keep saying it will come out in 2013, so let's assume it's a 2014 model year, and that it comes out in 3Q 2013... that's still only 1.3 years from now, and still no indication of price? The i8 gets more price talk.

I'm really considering a Tesla, but it's as big as a 5-series (which we already have), and expensive (base model is $50K + 1.5 sunroof + 1.5 leather + 1.5 jumpseats)... AFTER a $7500 tax credit.

So for me at least, the i3 makes sense if it has the same tax credit ($7500), and a base price of $40K or less - the net has to be $35K or less or forget it (IMO). So I am scouring the web weekly to find out pricing information and finding nothing.

Is this typical so close to production?
i3 will be made in Liepzig, so would i3 be eligible for euro-delivery (and discounts)?
will i3 be eligible for the BMW CCA rebate?

PLEASE UPDATE THIS THREAD WITH ANY PRICING INFORMATION DIVULGED - I WILL DO THE SAME.

Hmm, interesting question on Euro delivery, the agreement by all the European car makers on a standard was for *inside America*, I'm pretty sure. So charging may be an issue, unless the EU ratifies the same standard/voltages...


I'd also love to see it with a net price around $35k, up to $40k with range extender/options... but they could well go the other way and load it up with fancy electronic gadgetry as justification for charging too much...


.

This car and driver blog post is a good lead:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/electri...60-mile-range/

It it's $35k PRE-tax credit (net $28.5) that would be pretty compelling and competitive. If its $35k post-credit, not so much.

Ive seen this picture posted elsewhere online, and it's getting less attractive than the concept with each conceptualization.

I heard a rumor that it would be for lease only. Similar to the ActiveE leases BMW is currently offering.

Tim

Originally Posted by tim330i

I heard a rumor that it would be for lease only. Similar to the ActiveE leases BMW is currently offering.

Tim

That could work if the lease has no mileage restriction.

Originally Posted by nsequitur

This car and driver blog post is a good lead:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/electri...60-mile-range/

It it's $35k PRE-tax credit (net $28.5) that would be pretty compelling and competitive. If its $35k post-credit, not so much.

Ive seen this picture posted elsewhere online, and it's getting less attractive than the concept with each conceptualization.

When I found that link, I thought it was weeks old, but now realize it is over 1 YEAR old. More recent link describing potential developmental delays is here: http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...-ar130227.html
[it cites a price of $45, not the more optimistic $35 from the earlier quote]

A report out of Car and Driver claims that the the BMW i3, BMW's first electric vehicle, will start at approximately $35,000. The i3's power, range and top speed will be 150hp, 160 miles, and 100mph, respectively.

Originally Posted by sunney

A report out of Car and Driver claims that the the BMW i3, BMW's first electric vehicle, will start at approximately $35,000. The i3's power, range and top speed will be 150hp, 160 miles, and 100mph, respectively.

Do you have a link for the CD claim(s)? If the range is at least 160 miles, I am in. Less than 160 and it won't cut it for my driving requirements.

Originally Posted by TheCritic

Hmm, interesting question on Euro delivery, the agreement by all the European car makers on a standard was for *inside America*, I'm pretty sure. So charging may be an issue, unless the EU ratifies the same standard/voltages...

The car side connections are the same as what is sold in the US. Some cars, like the Leaf have a "standardised" connector for slow charging and second connector for a fast charger.

There are two different car side standards for a 32A 240V AC connection.


Public Fast charging is where the largest issues are.




UK charging stations are not standardised. At least not yet. The only solution is to carry around an adapter cable or two.

Originally Posted by anE934fun

Do you have a link for the CD claim(s)? If the range is at least 160 miles, I am in. Less than 160 and it won't cut it for my driving requirements.

160 miles is certainly possible. The i3's size and weight are going to help.

Range and price are directly related. I wouldn't be surprised to see BMW offer more than one battery size.

Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie

160 miles is certainly possible. The i3's size and weight are going to help.

Range and price are directly related. I wouldn't be surprised to see BMW offer more than one battery size.

Multiple battery capacity options would seem to be the prudent course for BMW. I think Tesla learned that lesson. No need for BMW to re-learn the battery range lesson.

I sure hope BMW offers different battery range options for the i3.

The only way to address these low ranges to have rapid charge infrastructure throughout the US. Seems like a cooperative agreement with the Big 3 + Tesla + Germans could make it happen quite easily, but good luck with that. So much of the US is empty space, and I for one want to be able to travel across the US with my electric vehicle.

The world tour well underway, now in NYC (the only US stop), there is still agonizingly little details on price or appearance.

One German news source put the price at $44-50K on our side of the ocean:
http://www.plugincars.com/bmw-i3-be-...us-123053.html

Today's Business Insider, on location at the NYC tour location, quotes Jacob Harb (BMWNA Electric Strategy and Operations) as saying that that the i3 will price "very competitively" and "less than a 5-series":
http://www.businessinsider.com/bmw-i...s-2012-11?op=1

Well Mr. Harb, I paid $44K for our 2012 528i, so I hope that is the ceiling we are talking about.

Business Insider also quotes Harb as saying that the i3 on tour is "very close" to what it will look like in production. Looking at spy photos I can't say I agree, but here's hoping.

So with the 2013 launch year literally 6 weeks away, there still little to report: when, where (euro delivery?), how (dealer order or the rumored online), and how much.

If this prices at $50K, I think it is DOA and the entire electric industry will suffer from the resulting spectacular failure. Get this into the very VERY low 40s and there is a hope I'll plunk down a deposit.

I'll never have the more lustworthy i8 at the rumoured $140K, but I do currently have $5K on deposit for a Fisker Atlantic... which may be produced in late 2014. Unlike the i3, at least I have an idea of what IT will cost (very close to $50K, leaked documents indicate).

BMW is going to be making announcements about BMW i at the LA Auto Show. Production schedule, pricing and other details could be what they give up -

There will be more BMW i news at the show.

Preview of what BMW is bringing to the LA Auto Show

Originally Posted by nsequitur

So with the 2013 launch year literally 6 weeks away, there still little to report: when, where (euro delivery?), how (dealer order or the rumored online), and how much.

If this prices at $50K, I think it is DOA and the entire electric industry will suffer from the resulting spectacular failure.

I hope they offer ED at rollout. Bavaria appears to have a good public charging station infrastructure.


http://www.swm.de/english/company/in.../charging.html

A trip to Hohenschwangau to see "the castle" is in range. There is an 11kW Type-2 charge point there and another public charger in Fussen.

http://ev-charging.com/at/en/elektro...Hohenschwangau





Price matters to no end. With all the current offerings, you really have to want to drive an electric car. An i3 priced the same as a 5 series makes a 320d or 116d a very attractive alternative.


If an i3 costs $45,000, US customers will either buy a Leaf or a Tesla.
In Europe BMW will loose EV customers to Renault. A Renault Zoe is priced about the same as a MINI Cooper. For the i3 to sell more than 20 units a year, BMW has to price it between Zoe and Leaf.




The 2nd Generation Leaf in Japan will cost 11% less than the 1st gen. I expect a similar reduction in the US 2013 Leaf.

Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie

snip...
Price matters to no end. With all the current offerings, you really have to want to drive an electric car. An i3 priced the same as a 5 series makes a 320d or 116d a very attractive alternative.


If an i3 costs $45,000, US customers will either buy a Leaf or a Tesla.
In Europe BMW will loose EV customers to Renault. A Renault Zoe is priced about the same as a MINI Cooper. For the i3 to sell more than 20 units a year, BMW has to price it between Zoe and Leaf.


The 2nd Generation Leaf in Japan will cost 11% less than the 1st gen. I expect a similar reduction in the US 2013 Leaf.

Plus, the chatter is that the 2nd gen Leaf will have an up-rated battery pack, giving it 100 mile range.... Lower price, greater range could be compelling. i3 pricing is going to be a significant factor in its success or failure.

Originally Posted by anE934fun

Plus, the chatter is that the 2nd gen Leaf will have an up-rated battery pack, giving it 100 mile range....

The range went up but the pack capacity is the same. According to Nissan the 2nd gen car is 85kg lighter, has better regenerative braking and a more efficient electric machine.

All we know for now is that the i3 will be "below the 5 Series" in price.

Nothing specific, but at least it won't be the same price as a 5er. I was hoping price would be at or below a 3 series.


http://green.autoblog.com/2012/11/22...le-megacity-p/


They've also posted i3 body shell and drivetrain photos from the display in New York.

Well, lots of news from the 2013 show, but the what/where/when/how and price are still unanswered.
This car will literally be on the road one year from today, and I still don't know where to put down a deposit (because the rumor is that this will be sold online).
And without knowing the price, I don't even know if I WANT to put down a deposit.

BMW i3 site has been updated with scads of images of an i3 coupe that came out of nowhere (the 5-door is supposed to come first).
It has the larger window for the rear passengers, but it shrunk for the driver from the concept. Does this mean still more shrinkage for all passengers in the 5-door. That would be disappointing.

News today is also that Tesla will be shortly raising its prices, so I'm biting nails wondering if BMW will give any indication on price before that happens (since a high price would push me into a Tesla).

Several news stories out today (referencing the LA auto show debut of the i3 coupe) mention an all-electric range of 100 miles, with an optional range extender taking total to 200 miles.

Originally Posted by nsequitur

Several news stories out today (referencing the LA auto show debut of the i3 coupe) mention an all-electric range of 100 miles, with an optional range extender taking total to 200 miles.

EDIT: 100 miles is the approximate range of the concept. Nearly meaningless, since we know nothing of the conditions used to get that range.

BMW's 100 mile range implies an NEDC range of 120-140 miles. Or maybe not. Early on, Nissan said the Leaf's range was 100 miles and the NEDC turned out to be 109.


This implies a battery pack of 20 to 22kWh. That matches the pack in photos posted here --> http://green.autoblog.com/photos/bmw...#photo-5451697

Battery size doesn't tell us the whole price story. But it does give some hints. Leaf battery is 24kWh.


The competition:

Nissan Leaf 109 miles NEDC and 73 milesEPA. Gen 2 (out now in Japan) is slightly higher
Renault Fluence 116 miles NEDC
Renault Zoe 131 miles NEDC

Tesla Model S with 85kWh pack - 260EPA. NEDC test due 2013.

From Torque News, the estimate is $50K.
Hope they are wrong - who is going to pay $50K for an i3 when you can practically get a full-sized Tesla S for that price?
Not I. Thinking of getting a deposit in for Tesla X (though who knows what THAT will sell for - it's base battery is $10K more than the 40Kw base size in the S).

http://www.torquenews.com/1079/how-b...tric-i3-future

Top of sticker for a 40kWh Model is $50k.

I think the i3 top of sticker price will be closer to $45k. Model S pricing could be why BMW reconsidered the entire program. Could also be why BMW hasn't announced a price yet.

Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie

EDIT: 100 miles is the approximate range of the concept. Nearly meaningless, since we know nothing of the conditions used to get that range.

BMW's 100 mile range implies an NEDC range of 120-140 miles. Or maybe not. Early on, Nissan said the Leaf's range was 100 miles and the NEDC turned out to be 109.


This implies a battery pack of 20 to 22kWh. That matches the pack in photos posted here --> http://green.autoblog.com/photos/bmw...#photo-5451697

Battery size doesn't tell us the whole price story. But it does give some hints. Leaf battery is 24kWh.


The competition:

Nissan Leaf 109 miles NEDC and 73 milesEPA. Gen 2 (out now in Japan) is slightly higher
Renault Fluence 116 miles NEDC
Renault Zoe 131 miles NEDC

Tesla Model S with 85kWh pack - 260EPA. NEDC test due 2013.

Is anyone aware of a calculator that can be used to determine charging cost for the EVs? Something like user enters battery pack size (better yet, select from pull-down for different cars), electricity rate per kWh, % charge left in battery pack, and calculator returns the cost to charge the pack. Would also be nice to provide the time to fully charge at the specified % charge remaining when using 220/240V and 110/120V chargers.

I have been attempting to get a handle on the cost to operate any EV using my actual electricity rate, but so far, no joy.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

I don't think the details you're looking for exist. The complexity of calculating those details probably only exist at the manufacturers level and they're not inclined to give those out. I did find this article which I found interesting -

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/...ctric-car.html

Tim