Motor Trend comparo: 1st Cadillac ATS, 2nd C350, 3rd 335i

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

I'm eyeing that Cayman as my next car. Love it. It may take awhile. Took four years to save for the M.

Did you ever run across a comparo of the Cayman and the E92 M?

Originally Posted by UnderSteer

So we are sick of hearing that Beden has a Porsche but appaently are never supposed to tire of hearing about how much money you make, how sucessful you are and how jealous everyone is of you.

BJ,

For a guy who made a career out of ridiculing other peoples cars and calling E90s low status "family grocery getters" (on the E90 forum!) I think you are being more than a bit oversensitive. If you think this forum is where the "adults" hang out you may want to consider acting like one yourself. At times your behavior is childish, mean spirited and out of place on a car enthusiasts forum. It is not your role here to decide who can post in what forum and what they can post. If you don't like the way a particular thread is going you have the option of ignoring it rather than being a self appointed moderator.

I have several "old, out of style" cars and have no intention of buying an F30 although it is a car that I respect and a car that I am curious about. In the meantime I will post in whatever forum I choose until somone who has the authority to do so tells me I can't.

You have the ability to add useful content to these forums and can be very entertaining. I really think that for your own benefit and the benefit of everyone else here you should lighten up, tone down the pettiness and nastiness and channel your enthusiasm and energy in a more positive manner.

+1

BJ, if you can't take the heat, don't dish out so much of it.

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

There's a Ignore button for a reason.

BJ is way too entertaining for that.

Originally Posted by Chris90

BJ, if you can't take the heat, don't dish out so much of it.

I don't want to keep the whining going as it is boring for everyone, but to clarify:

The heat I (and a few others) dish out has nothing to do with trying to enrage E46 and E90 owners. We have no grudge against you.

It is in response to E46 and E90 owners trying to enrage us. A few of you have a grudge against us and BMW. A few of you think that by making a mess of this forum that you're getting some "message" to Munich and BMW is going to "listen" to you. That's not the case. All you're doing is pissing off F30 owners in a forum that's designed for them to interact amongst themselves and share their enthusiasm for the new 3 Series.

I'm off the soap box; just cut the crap.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

I don't want to keep the whining going as it is boring for everyone, but to clarify:

The heat I (and a few others) dish out has nothing to do with trying to enrage E46 and E90 owners. We have no grudge against you.

It is in response to E46 and E90 owners trying to enrage us. A few of you have a grudge against us and BMW. A few of you think that by making a mess of this forum that you're getting some "message" to Munich and BMW is going to "listen" to you. That's not the case. All you're doing is pissing off F30 owners in a forum that's designed for them to interact amongst themselves and share their enthusiasm for the new 3 Series.

I'm off the soap box; just cut the crap.

BJ

Fair enough, we should put a moratorium on new Cadillac threads.

Originally Posted by Chris90

Fair enough, we should put a moratorium on new Cadillac threads.

No, we should put a moratorium on being able to blow up ATS threads. Lets just frikking grow up here and show the ability to have an open conversation about the comparison. Leave out all the other BS. It's undeniably a serious rival to the 3 series.

Originally Posted by MMME30W

Did you ever run across a comparo of the Cayman and the E92 M?

Nope. Two completely different cars for completely different purposes. I want to experience the full sports car experience.

Originally Posted by Chris90

BJ is way too entertaining for that.

Some don't seem to see it that way.

It's undeniably a serious rival to the 3 series.

I disagree. Like I've said before, our ATS demo is already creaky, rattling and the engine and brakes feel very tired. This is at 2,000 miles. At this isn't even mentioning sales of the ATS vs the F30.

I am very anxious for the day when the United States makes amazing cars that can compare to German automobiles. I think the ATS is a desperate, but good step in the right direction for the wrong manufacturer. Cadillac should be focusing on building the Ciel, not a plasticy XTS and ATS that they are trying to compare to the German competition.

/shrug

Originally Posted by Q. Senna

I disagree. Like I've said before, our ATS demo is already creaky, rattling and the engine and brakes feel very tired. This is at 2,000 miles. At this isn't even mentioning sales of the ATS vs the F30.

I am very anxious for the day when the United States makes amazing cars that can compare to German automobiles. I think the ATS is a desperate, but good step in the right direction for the wrong manufacturer. Cadillac should be focusing on building the Ciel, not a plasticy XTS and ATS that they are trying to compare to the German competition.

/shrug

Not to hijack the Cadillac thread but I'm driving a new (2k miles) Dodge Challenger loaner car and I have to say I am very impressed with the suspension and the cockpit. The steering wheel is almost as nice as a Bimmer's. Don't like the 5sp Slushy though.

It is very quiet, no creaks or rattles either.

It is nice to see that the US is putting out something like that. I imagine the top end model with 470HP or whatever it is, would give an M3 a run for its money in the quarter mile.

Originally Posted by Q. Senna

I disagree. Like I've said before, our ATS demo is already creaky, rattling and the engine and brakes feel very tired. This is at 2,000 miles. At this isn't even mentioning sales of the ATS vs the F30.

I am very anxious for the day when the United States makes amazing cars that can compare to German automobiles. I think the ATS is a desperate, but good step in the right direction for the wrong manufacturer. Cadillac should be focusing on building the Ciel, not a plasticy XTS and ATS that they are trying to compare to the German competition.

/shrug

The day has come and Cadillac beat BMW at its own game. Thumbs up to GM.

Originally Posted by EddieB

Not to hijack the Cadillac thread but I'm driving a new (2k miles) Dodge Challenger loaner car and I have to say I am very impressed with the suspension and the cockpit. The steering wheel is almost as nice as a Bimmer's. Don't like the 5sp Slushy though.

It is very quiet, no creaks or rattles either.

It is nice to see that the US is putting out something like that. I imagine the top end model with 470HP or whatever it is, would give an M3 a run for its money in the quarter mile.

Challenger scared the crap out of me when I drove it. I felt like the thing wanted to crash at 60 mph when you tried to put to work. As long as you stay in a straight line, you're ok. Deviate from that, and make sure you're wearing a seatbelt.

Also, these American Muscle cars need a lot more HP to compete with BMW's. I test drove a Camaro SS (undewhelming boat? More like Behemoth house crushing tank). 426 HP and I think my 335 can take it down in a straight line fight. (add some curves and no doubt 335 would crush it). That's 126 more HP, and about 140 more torque, but you wouldn't know it by driving it. (4000 pound curb weight has something to do with that, I know) That's not to say the SS wasn't fun to drive. it was, and the V8 sounds great, but it just doesn't compare, and I'm not even talking about the interior, where the SS is god awful fugly.

American Muscle is puny to the power of German Engineering. That's just my opinion, and that goes for the original start of this thread. ATS could be superior in ever way to the 3-series and 20K cheaper, I wouldn't buy it.

Originally Posted by jfox335i

Challenger scared the crap out of me when I drove it. I felt like the thing wanted to crash at 60 mph when you tried to put to work. As long as you stay in a straight line, you're ok. Deviate from that, and make sure you're wearing a seatbelt.

Also, these American Muscle cars need a lot more HP to compete with BMW's. I test drove a Camaro SS (undewhelming boat? More like Behemoth house crushing tank). 426 HP and I think my 335 can take it down in a straight line fight. (add some curves and no doubt 335 would crush it). That's 126 more HP, and about 140 more torque, but you wouldn't know it by driving it. (4000 pound curb weight has something to do with that, I know) That's not to say the SS wasn't fun to drive. it was, and the V8 sounds great, but it just doesn't compare, and I'm not even talking about the interior, where the SS is god awful fugly.

American Muscle is puny to the power of German Engineering. That's just my opinion, and that goes for the original start of this thread. ATS could be superior in ever way to the 3-series and 20K cheaper, I wouldn't buy it.

You must be delusional. Camaro SS would demolish a 335 stock for stock straight line and on the track. BTW I was born in Europe and owned German, Japanese and US made vehicles. German ones were by FAR least reliable.

The day has come and Cadillac beat BMW at its own game. Thumbs up to GM.

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate all of the factual and real life experience you have backing this statement.

You must be delusional. Camaro SS would demolish a 335 stock for stock straight line and on the track. BTW I was born in Europe and owned German, Japanese and US made vehicles. German ones were by FAR least reliable.

A Camaro SS does 0-60 in 4.8 with real world results of around 4.9 or 5.0, and a 335i does 0-60 in 4.6 with real world results of around the same. Do your research before you come here stating 'facts' or calling others delusional. And on the reliability subject I can tell you, from constant personal experience, that Japanese and German cars are far more reliable and well built than domestics.

Cheers.

Not to hijack the Cadillac thread but I'm driving a new (2k miles) Dodge Challenger loaner car and I have to say I am very impressed with the suspension and the cockpit. The steering wheel is almost as nice as a Bimmer's. Don't like the 5sp Slushy though.

I completely agree! I think the Challenger cockpit is actually a pretty cool place to be. It's relatively big inside, has a soft ride and makes a great noise. I do however agree with jfox that it's not a performance machine unless you're in a straight line. But hey, that's what it's built for! Fun car.

Originally Posted by Q. Senna

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate all of the factual and real life experience you have backing this statement.



A Camaro SS does 0-60 in 4.8 with real world results of around 4.9 or 5.0, and a 335i does 0-60 in 4.6 with real world results of around the same. Do your research before you come here stating 'facts' or calling others delusional. And on the reliability subject I can tell you, from constant personal experience, that Japanese and German cars are far more reliable and well built than domestics.

Cheers.

A Camaro SS does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and 1/4 mile 13.0 @ 111 MPH and a F30 335 does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds and 1/4 mile 13.8 @ 103 MPH. See those are FACTS that are backed by a test (see links below). Real world difference is significant between the two, just look at the trap speed or 0-130 mph, not even close.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...an-test-review

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-twin-bill.pdf

How about this.

Let's all pick the one specific feature of our favorite car that beats that same feature on every other comparable car (let's assume, even if for a moment, that there are actually cars comparable to our favorite car, because there aren't, but let's just pretend), then decide that the feature we picked is the only feature that matters, and declare our car the best because of that feature. Then, let's give the manufacturer of our car a thumbs up.

I think that would make for great conversation.

-Corey

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

A Camaro SS does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and 1/4 mile 13.0 @ 111 MPH and a F30 335 does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds and 1/4 mile 13.8 @ 103 MPH. See those are FACTS that are backed by a test (see links below). Real world difference is significant between the two, just look at the trap speed or 0-130 mph, not even close.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...an-test-review

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-twin-bill.pdf

We can post magazine reviews all day long that say your wrong but if really want to know, take your butt to a track or stoplight. I like the Camaro but its not blowing the doors off a F30 335i stock for stock. They are dead even, now a new GT Mustang now that would blow the doors off your 6.2 litter camaro with its small by comparison 302.

Ok here you go.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...trumented-test
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...5i_first_test/

Originally Posted by cordoor

How about this.

Let's all pick the one specific feature of our favorite car that beats that same feature on every other comparable car (let's assume, even if for a moment, that there are actually cars comparable to our favorite car, because there aren't, but let's just pretend), then decide that the feature we picked is the only feature that matters, and declare our car the best because of that feature. Then, let's give the manufacturer of our car a thumbs up.

I think that would make for great conversation.

-Corey

I can fit more beer cases in our Honda Fit that our old 2007 E91. Plus it's super cute.

Honda.

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

The day has come and Cadillac beat BMW at its own game. Thumbs up to GM.

LOL.

The "game" is called "sales" and Cadillac is sucking wind on the ATS catastrophe. Beat BMW? Yeah, if BMW goes out of business they may stand a chance. Or if they run a 50% Off sale on all Cimmaron 2013 models.

BJ

Originally Posted by Buildbright

We can post magazine reviews all day long that say your wrong but if really want to know, take your butt to a track or stoplight. I like the Camaro but its not blowing the doors off a F30 335i stock for stock. They are dead even, now a new GT Mustang now that would blow the doors off your 6.2 litter camaro with its small by comparison 302.

Ok here you go.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...trumented-test
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...5i_first_test/

Yep, though if you drive both, the 335 "feels" faster. It may not be, but it feels that way. And if they are this close, that's doesn't say much for that 6.2L V8. Like I said, the SS was a fun car to drive, so I'm not going to dog it completely. I just marvel at how well engineered the 335 is.

On the mustang, I'd take a Laguna Seca as a weekender. Lol Brutally quick beast of a car. Ok, not all American muscle is puny. :P

Originally Posted by jfox335i

Yep, though if you drive both, the 335 "feels" faster. It may not be, but it feels that way. And if they are this close, that's doesn't say much for that 6.2L V8. Like I said, the SS was a fun car to drive, so I'm not going to dog it completely. I just marvel at how well engineered the 335 is.

On the mustang, I'd take a Laguna Seca as a weekender. Lol Brutally quick beast of a car. Ok, not all American muscle is puny. :P

I had a blast in the new camaro it's a torque monster. I actually thought the opposite the 8speed auto is smooth the 335i powerband is so linear it doesn't feel as fast as it is. Top End is a different story the 335i just keeps pulling.

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

Nope. Two completely different cars for completely different purposes. I want to experience the full sports car.

Gotcha. Would love to drive a Cayman one of these days...

Originally Posted by Buildbright

I had a blast in the new camaro it's a torque monster. I actually thought the opposite the 8speed auto is smooth the 335i powerband is so linear it doesn't feel as fast as it is. Top End is a different story the 335i just keeps pulling.

That's true, the speed in the 335 is deceptive, it doesn't feel you're going as fast as you really are. And it is awesome how it just keeps pulling the faster you get. You can't go fast enough for it, it just wants more. Chews up twistys like its one with the road. I didn't sense the torque as much as you in the SS. I noticed it for sure, just not what I expected. I guess I expected a little more pull considering its specs.

Originally Posted by MMME30W

Gotcha. Would love to drive a Cayman one of these days...

The 2009 I drove literally drove like it was on rails. It's so nimble and agile. The only problem is the monthly payments were nowhere near what I'm paying for my M3.

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

The 2009 I drove literally drove like it was on rails. It's so nimble and agile. The only problem is the monthly payments were nowhere near what I'm paying for my M3.

If it drove like it was on rails you weren't going fast enough.

CA