What's wrong with flirting?

Originally Posted by Griffoun

Recently a college friend of mine ran into the situation so I'm looking to the festers for wisdom...

There're 2 married couples, they're all friends from the same college, they all know each other, and I know the 4 of them. Husband A exchanges text with Wife B quite frequently and sometimes asks wife B what she's wearing that day. Husband A texts something like "Good morning sweety", "Why wear turtleneck? I like your neck", "Why do you send me a pic of the new mixer, I'd like to see more of you".

I think (based on the words from Husband B anyway) that Husband A has been flirting with Wife B. What do you think? Is it flirting, and if so, is it acceptable to you if you were in Husband B's shoe?

Is it a concealed carry state?

Or, better, Florida, or any other SYG state?

I miss jever.

Originally Posted by wag-zhp

I miss jever.

yeah...

Originally Posted by MatWiz

No.

No as in "Husband A isn't flirting", or "No it's not OK for this kind of conversation between the two"?

Originally Posted by Kamdog

Is it a concealed carry state?

Or, better, Florida, or any other SYG state?

I take it as "the conversation isn't appropriate"?

Originally Posted by wag-zhp

I miss jever.

Originally Posted by MatWiz

yeah...

Well, to be more accurate, I missed the days when it's one big happy family before the whole world was turned upside-down, so-to-speak.

Originally Posted by Griffoun

Recently a college friend of mine ran into the situation so I'm looking to the festers for wisdom...

There're 2 married couples, they're all friends from the same college, they all know each other, and I know the 4 of them. Husband A exchanges text with Wife B quite frequently and sometimes asks wife B what she's wearing that day. Husband A texts something like "Good morning sweety", "Why wear turtleneck? I like your neck", "Why do you send me a pic of the new mixer, I'd like to see more of you".

I think (based on the words from Husband B anyway) that Husband A has been flirting with Wife B. What do you think? Is it flirting, and if so, is it acceptable to you if you were in Husband B's shoe?

It could be considered flirting (or bordering on seduction, depending on what happens next). While I am OK with innocent flirtation, what you have described would raise my eyebrow.

Oh shoot. What have I done there. I clicked "edit" instead of "reply"!

Originally Posted by MatWiz

No.

No as in "Husband A isn't flirting", or "No it's not OK for this kind of conversation between the two"?

Ah, sorry about that. I read your last question and answered it.

So, yes he is flirting, and no that is not acceptable.

He's going too far. There's just a little more that can happen there before it is full on sex relationship. He is putting a lot of hints out there and all she needs to do is respond in like, or send a picture of herself instead of the mixer, and he's going to go all over her offering sex and her accepting.

I look at it this way. Husband A is putting an open invitation out for her. Not only that, but he keeps on reinforcing it. It's like a salesman who keeps calling you for something, and at some point, she is going to say yes. Ask yourself this: if she says yes, is he going to say "OH NO! I was only kidding all this time! I love my wife and never cheat on her"? Or is he going to accept?

He is going to accept. I can bet on that. And if he is going to accept, then ask yourself, why is he keeping on asking and flirting?

The guy is a douche.

Oh, and one more thing. I don't call THAT what you describe "flirting". Flirting is very subtle. What he is doing is a full WOT passes on her.

Originally Posted by wag-zhp

It could be considered flirting (or bordering on seduction, depending on what happens next). While I am OK with innocent flirtation, what you have described would raise my eyebrow.

Ah, sorry about that. I read your last question and answered it.

So, yes he is flirting, and no that is not acceptable.

He's going too far. There's just a little more that can happen there before it is full on sex relationship. He is putting a lot of hints out there and all she needs to do is respond in like, or send a picture of herself instead of the mixer, and he's going to go all over her offering sex and her accepting.

I look at it this way. Husband A is putting an open invitation out for her. Not only that, but he keeps on reinforcing it. It's like a salesman who keeps calling you for something, and at some point, she is going to say yes. Ask yourself this: if she says yes, is he going to say "OH NO! I was only kidding all this time! I love my wife and never cheat on her"? Or is he going to accept?

He is going to accept. I can bet on that. And if he is going to accept, then ask yourself, why is he keeping on asking and flirting?

The guy is a douche.

Oh, and one more thing. I don't call THAT what you describe "flirting". Flirting is very subtle. What he is doing is a full WOT passes on her.

Not sure why the post became mine when it's you (matwiz) who responded it... a bug in the forum?

Thanks for the responses, Husband B told me Wife B did indeed send pictures to Husband A, at least those that he's aware of anyway, as Wife B was "open" about her chats with Husband A and most of the conversation she initiated (again, those that Husband B is aware of) are just subjects about what's been happening... ALTHOUGH occasionally Wife B sends pictures of what she wears to work that day which got Husband B worried.

Couple A are the religious ones, I see them posting pictures of their daughter praying and bible study on facebook. Being and outsider I have no idea if Wife A knows any of these exchanges, neither does Husband B when I asked him about it. Husband B and I were pretty close in college, but the 5 of us are all friends together, so that's what makes it a sticky situation. If I made any bad comments, the whole thing could turn ugly.

It shows how poor judgement on one can interrupt 2 families eh?

Originally Posted by Griffoun

Recently a college friend of mine ran into the situation so I'm looking to the festers for wisdom...

There're 2 married couples, they're all friends from the same college, they all know each other, and I know the 4 of them. Husband A exchanges text with Wife B quite frequently and sometimes asks wife B what she's wearing that day. Husband A texts something like "Good morning sweety", "Why wear turtleneck? I like your neck", "Why do you send me a pic of the new mixer, I'd like to see more of you".

I think (based on the words from Husband B anyway) that Husband A has been flirting with Wife B. What do you think? Is it flirting, and if so, is it acceptable to you if you were in Husband B's shoe?

Husband A is a total douche and deserves a serious beat down, one he'll never forget. At the same time Husband B needs to re-evaluate his relationship with Wife B, because she's at fault too. If she had nibbed it in the butt from get-go he wouldn't have come this far. She's fully aware of his straight forward sexual innuendos and flirtings yet seems like she continues to text him - only means one thing - she's welcoming it.

Originally Posted by Griffoun

Not sure why the post became mine when it's you (matwiz) who responded it... a bug in the forum?

Thanks for the responses, Husband B told me Wife B did indeed send pictures to Husband A, at least those that he's aware of anyway, as Wife B was "open" about her chats with Husband A and most of the conversation she initiated (again, those that Husband B is aware of) are just subjects about what's been happening... ALTHOUGH occasionally Wife B sends pictures of what she wears to work that day which got Husband B worried.

Couple A are the religious ones, I see them posting pictures of their daughter praying and bible study on facebook. Being and outsider I have no idea if Wife A knows any of these exchanges, neither does Husband B when I asked him about it. Husband B and I were pretty close in college, but the 5 of us are all friends together, so that's what makes it a sticky situation. If I made any bad comments, the whole thing could turn ugly.

It shows how poor judgement on one can interrupt 2 families eh?

It does, doesn't it?

If I was husband B, I would blow the whole thing off. I would talk to HIS wife. Then I would talk to HIS church minister, "asking for his advice and interference". I wouldn't even talk to him, since I think he is just going to laugh and wave it off like husband A is a loser for thinking it, and will continue with what he's doing. Better to blow up the whole thing in his and his wife's faces, to make him back off.

I don't buy into that "he's religious" stuff. I have seen too many fraud done by religious people. In fact, acting out on their repressed (by their religion) personality. We all know the stories about those Catholic girls, right?

Oh, I fixed your post.

Originally Posted by mj745

Husband A is a total douche and deserves a serious beat down, one he'll never forget. At the same time Husband B needs to re-evaluate his relationship with Wife B, because she's at fault too. If she had nibbed it in the butt from get-go he wouldn't have come this far. She's fully aware of his straight forward sexual innuendos and flirtings yet seems like she continues to text him - only means one thing - she's welcoming it.

Yup.

Originally Posted by wag-zhp

I miss jever.

And Tina....



.

Originally Posted by wag-zhp

I miss jever.

Me too, he helped me through Eng lit 2 and we had a pretty damn good time in SB BF '06.

Arguably one of the best weeks of my life. RIP Ben I poured some rum for ya man.

Originally Posted by Griffoun

Recently a college friend of mine ran into the situation so I'm looking to the festers for wisdom...

There're 2 married couples, they're all friends from the same college, they all know each other, and I know the 4 of them. Husband A exchanges text with Wife B quite frequently and sometimes asks wife B what she's wearing that day. Husband A texts something like "Good morning sweety", "Why wear turtleneck? I like your neck", "Why do you send me a pic of the new mixer, I'd like to see more of you".

I think (based on the words from Husband B anyway) that Husband A has been flirting with Wife B. What do you think? Is it flirting, and if so, is it acceptable to you if you were in Husband B's shoe?

Yes, it is flirting. And no, not acceptable. I am, ah, particularly sensitive to this based on personal experience.

Originally Posted by wag-zhp

I miss jever.

+1

I like pie

Originally Posted by SmoothCruise

What do you mean?


You mean if they kiss and hold hands you like it, but if they are doing a clothed pre-coital ritual, you don't like it?

Ah yes, clothed pre-coital rituals. I like those. What was the question again?

Originally Posted by mj745

Husband A is a total douche and deserves a serious beat down, one he'll never forget. At the same time Husband B needs to re-evaluate his relationship with Wife B, because she's at fault too. If she had nibbed it in the butt from get-go he wouldn't have come this far. She's fully aware of his straight forward sexual innuendos and flirtings yet seems like she continues to text him - only means one thing - she's welcoming it.

Husband A is douche and deserves a beat down? For what? Maybe Husband A's wife is a dullard and maybe Wife B's husband prefers to spend time at the local watering hole watching sports than with his wife. I think if they're going to act on anything then they need to be upfront about it however if all they've done is sent a few texts to each other then you need to chill out.

Originally Posted by Moderato

Husband A is douche and deserves a beat down? For what?

Kind of agree here. Never really understood this kind of jealousy. The way I see it, you either trust your spouse/SO or you don't. If you do, then what's there to be jealous about? If you don't, what in the world are you doing staying with this person you can't trust? What's beating the other guy going to solve? Make your spouse love you more - or again? Might make the other guy stop flirting, but again, if you trust your spouse, then you have nothing to worry about. And if you don't, another will come along right behind him. And another - until you figure out you can beat them all up, the the source of the problem is your relationship, not the other people your spouse is flirting with.

I have a group of college friends like this. There are approximately 10 of us that are still very tight with an even 5/5 male/female split, with a few others who are pseudo members by association. We share a long history. There are cases where one of the guys dated two of the girls, and a girl dated two of the guys - not at the same time, but the point is . . . you could draw a chart of who had some sort of a tryst with another at some point. One of the girls dated one of the guys for years and she ended up marrying his best friend from high school. Yet, they still do things together and go places without their spouses and no one thinks anything of it. That was then and this is now.

We live all over the country now and don't all get together often, but we meet up whenever one is going to be in the other's area. One of the gals came up to meet me at my hotel in San Francisco recently and we went out to dinner. Another came to stay with me for the weekend in LA. No one's spouse had a problem with this. And we are there for each other when the chips are down. If a sibling or a parent or a spouse passes away (all have happened) we're on a plane or in the car on our way. If one of us sent a text to the other asking what they were wearing, I don't think anyone would think anything was going on - absent more to be suspicious about than that.

You guys can do what you like and what you prefer. But if my good friend were sending texts like that to my wife I'd beat him down. And if my wife was accepting it from the douche then it's good-bye. It's called "cheating". Sugar coat it and rationalize it all you want, but there's no excuse.

Well, I definitely agree that if there's cheating going on, bye bye. Once the trust is gone, that's it. It's very difficult if not impossible to ever regain that. I'm just saying that (1) jealousy is a pretty ugly trait that really doesn't accomplish anything, and (2) if there is a problem here, the problem is with the relationship of couple B. Husband A is a symptom of the problem, but not the problem. If she's flirting in a sexual ways and possibly cheating, then it's not because husband A is so special, and getting him out of the picture is not going make the problem go away. She'll just find a Husband C, or random guy D from the office/gym/country club, etc.

Originally Posted by 1Dreamer

Well, I definitely agree that if there's cheating going on, bye bye. Once the trust is gone, that's it. It's very difficult if not impossible to ever regain that. I'm just saying that (1) jealousy is a pretty ugly trait that really doesn't accomplish anything, and (2) if there is a problem here, the problem is with the relationship of couple B. Husband A is a symptom of the problem, but not the problem. If she's flirting in a sexual ways and possibly cheating, then it's not because husband A is so special, and getting him out of the picture is not going make the problem go away. She'll just find a Husband C, or random guy D from the office/gym/country club, etc.

You're right. If it were any other person I'd not get myself involved with him. I'd only beat his @ss because he's my friend and I expected more

I will add to this - that although it is extremely painful and difficult to leave a partner for cheating, I don't see any other alternative. I believe people make mistakes and divorce in my view should almost not even be an option except in the case of a cheating spouse. I always say if you caught them once, then God knows what you haven't caught.

Originally Posted by mj745

You're right. If it were any other person I'd not get myself involved with him. I'd only beat his @ss because he's my friend and I expected more

That reminds me of a movie.

Chico: Right now I'd do anything for money. I'd kill somebody for money. I'd kill *you* for money.

[Harpo looks dejected]

Chico: Ha ha ha. Ah, no. You're my friend. I'd kill you for nothing.

[Harpo smiles]

-The Marx Brothers.

Originally Posted by MatWiz

yeah...

what exactly did he die from?

he was a young guy.

Originally Posted by mj745

You're right. If it were any other person I'd not get myself involved with him. I'd only beat his @ss because he's my friend and I expected more

Fair enough.

I will add to this - that although it is extremely painful and difficult to leave a partner for cheating, I don't see any other alternative. I believe people make mistakes and divorce in my view should almost not even be an option except in the case of a cheating spouse. I always say if you caught them once, then God knows what you haven't caught.

I'm in agreement with this, but I'd add physical abuse as another valid reason for divorce.

Originally Posted by mj745

You guys can do what you like and what you prefer. But if my good friend were sending texts like that to my wife I'd beat him down. And if my wife was accepting it from the douche then it's good-bye. It's called "cheating". Sugar coat it and rationalize it all you want, but there's no excuse.

That was my point exactly. You're imagining the scenario in a certain context with specific conditions. If Husband A is sending questionable texts to Wife B and they weren't solicited and Wife B wants it to stop then that is wrong. However there could be other circumstances which would make this behavior understandable. So, it's possible that Husband A & Wife B aren't happy with their spouses for whatever reason. At this point where a few texts have been exchanged no one needs to get beat up or divorced. I reiterate that if they're going to act on it then they need to be upfront but for right now they each need to evaluate their marriages and decide if any action should be taken. The other possibility you need to consider is that these two couples might be OK with that type of behavior. I know couples that have very relaxed rules regarding flirting and what they do (and have stayed married for over 10 years), for example going out to bars and flirting with other people right in front of each other. I know married people that go out on a "women's only" or "men's only" vacation. Guess what? Both parties are OK with it and some even think it's healthy for their relationship.

Originally Posted by Moderato

That was my point exactly. You're imagining the scenario in a certain context with specific conditions. If Husband A is sending questionable texts to Wife B and they weren't solicited and Wife B wants it to stop then that is wrong. However there could be other circumstances which would make this behavior understandable. So, it's possible that Husband A & Wife B aren't happy with their spouses for whatever reason. At this point where a few texts have been exchanged no one needs to get beat up or divorced. I reiterate that if they're going to act on it then they need to be upfront but for right now they each need to evaluate their marriages and decide if any action should be taken. The other possibility you need to consider is that these two couples might be OK with that type of behavior. I know couples that have very relaxed rules regarding flirting and what they do (and have stayed married for over 10 years), for example going out to bars and flirting with other people right in front of each other. I know married people that go out on a "women's only" or "men's only" vacation. Guess what? Both parties are OK with it and some even think it's healthy for their relationship.

That's a viable option. Which is why I said "if" circumstances were such and such, "this" is probably how I'd react. Nobody knows the OP's entire story, so I made a hypothetical.

Regarding your text I highlighted in black, it wouldn't matter at that point if only "out" of the marriage was already decided upon.